OFFICIAL Elijah Taylor [Discussion]

[851]

You can not please everyone, TT has given us a great insight into what is going on behind the scenes and some people want to have a shot at him. As I said in a previous post, the Farah thing is complexed and is about a lot of things and is not just a Taylor and farah personality clash. Also interesting to read Farah has upset someone of influence and my guess it is our chair woman.

If Cleary's price is 200g more than Taylors, I do not see that as a stumbling block when you consider what we pay players

100% agree, just let Robbie get his 250 games and move to souths, and cough up the extra money for Cleary, and see you to both Farah and JT, we can all move forward with confidence then. 😛ray:

What extra money? Coaches salaries aren't included in the cap.

Where did I mention the cap, I said cough up the extra from what we are paying Taylor and get Cleary.

 

[Sco77y]

You can not please everyone, TT has given us a great insight into what is going on behind the scenes and some people want to have a shot at him. As I said in a previous post, the Farah thing is complexed and is about a lot of things and is not just a Taylor and farah personality clash. Also interesting to read Farah has upset someone of influence and my guess it is our chair woman.

If Cleary's price is 200g more than Taylors, I do not see that as a stumbling block when you consider what we pay players

100% agree, just let Robbie get his 250 games and move to souths, and cough up the extra money for Cleary, and see you to both Farah and JT, we can all move forward with confidence then. 😛ray:

What extra money? Coaches salaries aren't included in the cap.

I realise that, but Taylor is reported to be on a pretty basic contract. My point if we are paying Brooks and co around 600g year surly it is not unreasonable to pay your coach around the same if not a little more and I guess that is the sort of money Cleary is looking for… and as you said it is not coming out of any cap so basically if we can scrape the cash together we can pay the coach what ever we can afford.

I suppose Pascoe and Oniell think Taylor can get the job done for cheaper

Does anyone have any stats on Cleary's career so far? What makes you think he'd be any better than JT? He would be coming in at square one and with different views and opinions on how things should run within the playing group. It would take a season or two for the team to adapt.. Again. Can't see signing Cleary or similar being of any benefit whatsoever.

 

[cochise]

Ballin - the lengths the club was prepared to go get rid of Farah last year and still people think Farah has been dropped based on performance.

Why does everyone keep making this point? It is **all** about performance.

The club does not deem his contribution to the club through his on field performances is commensurate to the salary paid. Either he contributes more or his salary comes down. Neither is going to happen so he is asked to look for other options.

The market always finds a way to price someone correctly. If Wests pay $600k and Souths pay $350k, it means Farah's true value is between these two values. He is certainly not worth $950k.

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

 

[Nelson]

Ballin - the lengths the club was prepared to go get rid of Farah last year and still people think Farah has been dropped based on performance.

Why does everyone keep making this point? It is **all** about performance.

The club does not deem his contribution to the club through his on field performances is commensurate to the salary paid. Either he contributes more or his salary comes down. Neither is going to happen so he is asked to look for other options.

The market always finds a way to price someone correctly. If Wests pay $600k and Souths pay $350k, it means Farah's true value is between these two values. He is certainly not worth $950k.

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

 

[cochise]

Ballin - the lengths the club was prepared to go get rid of Farah last year and still people think Farah has been dropped based on performance.

Why does everyone keep making this point? It is **all** about performance.

The club does not deem his contribution to the club through his on field performances is commensurate to the salary paid. Either he contributes more or his salary comes down. Neither is going to happen so he is asked to look for other options.

The market always finds a way to price someone correctly. If Wests pay $600k and Souths pay $350k, it means Farah's true value is between these two values. He is certainly not worth $950k.

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Why does everyone keep making this point? It is **all** about performance.

The club does not deem his contribution to the club through his on field performances is commensurate to the salary paid. Either he contributes more or his salary comes down. Neither is going to happen so he is asked to look for other options.

The market always finds a way to price someone correctly. If Wests pay $600k and Souths pay $350k, it means Farah's true value is between these two values. He is certainly not worth $950k.

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

 

[cochise]

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

 

[VanillaThunder]

So with Blake Green off to Manly and Rankin wanting to play halves, any chance we can ship him off to Melbourne to cover some of the compo for JAC? I know Bellamy is probably too smart to accept it, but I'd assume with them losing a half and a winger, Rankin might pique some interest?

 

[tiger_one]

So with Blake Green off to Manly and Rankin wanting to play halves, any chance we can ship him off to Melbourne to cover some of the compo for JAC? I know Bellamy is probably too smart to accept it, but I'd assume with them losing a half and a winger, Rankin might pique some interest?

Please! Please! Please!

 

[newtiger]

I would assume that the re-signing priority would be:-

1\. Teddy
2\. Moses
3\. ET
4\. Brooks

I think it would be:
1\. Teddy
2\. Moses
3\. Woods
4\. Brooks

 

[stevetiger]

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I'm pretty confident that it's a combination of purposely distorting the situation and being really really dumb.

 

[cochise]

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I'm pretty confident that it's a combination of purposely distorting the situation and being really really dumb.

Yep, that is how I see it too.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Why does everyone keep making this point? It is **all** about performance.

The club does not deem his contribution to the club through his on field performances is commensurate to the salary paid. Either he contributes more or his salary comes down. Neither is going to happen so he is asked to look for other options.

The market always finds a way to price someone correctly. If Wests pay $600k and Souths pay $350k, it means Farah's true value is between these two values. He is certainly not worth $950k.

Once again he is not being paid $950K for next season, he is being paid for previous years. He is on a backended contract.

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It's like bashing your head against a wall,
No matter how many times some are shown that their whole argument is based on a determination to not see( or admit that they see) that Farahs cost to the club is only because shonky club officials back ended his contract, probably because they thought they'd be able to get out of paying the last couple of years, by doing exactly what current Club officials , and "Coach "are trying to do now.
Understanding why we have such a big amount owing to Farah isn't hard, if they put aside their hatred of him and look at the facts.
It's the clubs fault that they owe him so much. :brick:

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I think that both of your possibilities are definetly right

 

[GNR4LIFE]

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I think that both of your possibilities are definetly right

\

But I repeat he won't be here next year, he has burnt some bridges with people of greater influence than Jason Taylor!

The amount of people who flat out refuse to acknowledge this little tidbit.

 

[Nelson]

Probably because he'll be putting a $950K dent in our salary cap however you look at it.

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

Well it depends on what people are talking about. The only figure out there is the $950K figure which has been widely reported. I haven't seen it reported how much of that is supposed back pay, but regardless of its status it comes out of the cap as you know.

In 2015 prior to getting the tap on the shoulder Farah was coasting. He wasn't playing anywhere near the level that a club would expect out of a player getting $700K-$750K. He came out and played a great game after it all became public (against the Warriors at Campbelltown) but he hadn't been playing anything like that. In 15 appearances he'd broken the line twice and scored 1 try. He wasn't making the incisive runs around the ruck that he had been (albeit his runs per game remained high) and his metres per run were paltry. So the club would've looked ahead and seen him on the books for $950K in 2017 and they would've been concerned. They probably would have expected that he would decline further with age as usually happens. Further, the projected makeup of the team had quickly changed after he signed with the heavy investment in Teddy, Moses and Brooks. The need for a play making hooker was diminished.

From a salary cap management perspective the $950K figure was the only one that would've mattered. If he had been playing at the level of a $700-$750K player then maybe they could've worn it, but he just wasn't. Not even close. With so many competing demands on the cap that $950K would've looked like an absolute goldmine, so they tapped him on the shoulder. There were plenty of options out there for a hooker in the $200K range that could do the serviceable job that the coach wanted.

From his perspective he knew the last two years of his contract were dicey when he signed it. He's said as much. When players are getting paid those sorts of dollars there are expectations on them - big expectations. They're the sorts of players that are supposed to be winning games for their team. He wasn't that player in 2015 and so the club acted, knowing that he was going to be tying up more than 13.5% of the salary cap in 2017.

Contracts are fluid things and sometimes it's worth taking the hit in breaking them, that's why they're drafted with clauses anticipating breaches. Clubs have to make the decision to break contracts from time to time. It would be a useless administrator that would just sit back and blame all the club's problems on prior management without trying to do anything about them. The problem was recognised and they acted. Nobody knows how they acted because the club have never come out and said it, yet numerous people on here are quite happy to come out and say the club handled it badly (knowing virtually nothing about what the club attempted behind the scenes).

He was not going to be worth $950K in 2017\. He was not going to be worth $750K. In 2015 it looked like he might've been a $400K-$450K play making hooker and that just wasn't a fit for what they wanted and they were not prepared to allow the cap to be crippled in that way.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I think that both of your possibilities are definetly right

This became annoying a long time ago but I agree that both possibilities are right.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I think that both of your possibilities are definetly right

\

But I repeat he won't be here next year, he has burnt some bridges with people of greater influence than Jason Taylor!

The amount of people who flat out refuse to acknowledge this little tidbit.

I'm not talking about what we heard from an unknown person , who may or may not know any more than the rest of us, about what may or may not have been said by other unknown persons
I'm talking abouts facts that we know to be right
The exact amounts may vary a bit , but the Backended contract has been known right back when it happened.
TT may be accurate, or may completely wrong.
He/she has been right sometimes, and wrong sometimes.
There is no facts to back up TTs claim that you mentioned, yet already , you are trying
to push this as the truth.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

I think that both of your possibilities are definetly right

\

But I repeat he won't be here next year, he has burnt some bridges with people of greater influence than Jason Taylor!

The amount of people who flat out refuse to acknowledge this little tidbit.

I'm not talking about what we heard from an unknown person , who may or may not know any more than the rest of us, about what may or may not have been said by other unknown persons
I'm talking abouts facts that we know to be right
The exact amounts may vary a bit , but the Backended contract has been known right back when it happened.
TT may be accurate, or may completely wrong.
He/she has been right sometimes, and wrong sometimes.
There is no facts to back up TTs claim that you mentioned, yet already , you are trying
to push this as the truth.

Oh i see, so what he said that backs up your point is true, but what doesn't is still a matter of conjecture?

Right :laughing:

 

[cochise]

No kidding, but it is unfair to claim he is not worth $950K when he is not being paid that based on being a player worth paying 950K. He is being paid that because they club got themselves in a salary cap mess and he accepted less money on the condition it will be paid back at the end of his contract. This is not his fault and to say he is not playing to the standard of a $950K player is a stupid argument made by bitter people.

It has only being incorrectly made 365 times over the past year. Not a good look for comprehension of football fans.

I'm not a Farah fanboy at all but this really annoys me, by now the people doing it are either purposely distorting the situation or are really really dumb as they have been corrected so many times.

Well it depends on what people are talking about. The only figure out there is the $950K figure which has been widely reported. I haven't seen it reported how much of that is supposed back pay, but regardless of its status it comes out of the cap as you know.

In 2015 prior to getting the tap on the shoulder Farah was coasting. He wasn't playing anywhere near the level that a club would expect out of a player getting $700K-$750K. He came out and played a great game after it all became public (against the Warriors at Campbelltown) but he hadn't been playing anything like that. In 15 appearances he'd broken the line twice and scored 1 try. He wasn't making the incisive runs around the ruck that he had been (albeit his runs per game remained high) and his metres per run were paltry. So the club would've looked ahead and seen him on the books for $950K in 2017 and they would've been concerned. They probably would have expected that he would decline further with age as usually happens. Further, the projected makeup of the team had quickly changed after he signed with the heavy investment in Teddy, Moses and Brooks. The need for a play making hooker was diminished.

From a salary cap management perspective the $950K figure was the only one that would've mattered. If he had been playing at the level of a $700-$750K player then maybe they could've worn it, but he just wasn't. Not even close. With so many competing demands on the cap that $950K would've looked like an absolute goldmine, so they tapped him on the shoulder. There were plenty of options out there for a hooker in the $200K range that could do the serviceable job that the coach wanted.

From his perspective he knew the last two years of his contract were dicey when he signed it. He's said as much. When players are getting paid those sorts of dollars there are expectations on them - big expectations. They're the sorts of players that are supposed to be winning games for their team. He wasn't that player in 2015 and so the club acted, knowing that he was going to be tying up more than 13.5% of the salary cap in 2017.

Contracts are fluid things and sometimes it's worth taking the hit in breaking them, that's why they're drafted with clauses anticipating breaches. Clubs have to make the decision to break contracts from time to time. It would be a useless administrator that would just sit back and blame all the club's problems on prior management without trying to do anything about them. The problem was recognised and they acted. Nobody knows how they acted because the club have never come out and said it, yet numerous people on here are quite happy to come out and say the club handled it badly (knowing virtually nothing about what the club attempted behind the scenes).

He was not going to be worth $950K in 2017\. He was not going to be worth $750K. In 2015 it looked like he might've been a $400K-$450K play making hooker and that just wasn't a fit for what they wanted and they were not prepared to allow the cap to be crippled in that way.

None of that matters, the club decided he was worth a certain amount over a 4 year period, to find out what they valued that at you would have to know what he was entitled to for all 4 years of his contract. They could not afford to pay him his value (a value the club decided) in the first couple of years of his contract. So they decided to underpay him and make it up later, if you do that you are going to be paying him more than his value in the final years. It is entirely possible that he could be owed 300-400K because of the backloading of his contract. Now that would put his real salary in around the the 650K mark, while I believe this is a little high for the player he is now, I do not think that is entirely unreasonable for a play making hooker.

For the record I do not have a huge problem with the club moving him on, but don't anyone here accuse a player for not being loyal when the club has a history of disloyalty towards players. The club is well within their rights to shop him around but he is well within his rights to try and stay and be loyal to the club he has played his entire career for. Hopefully this get sorted out soon, he can find a new home, get the farewell a club legend, long term captain and premiership winner deserves and the club can sign ET and move on without any remaining players from that wonderful October night in 2005\. For me it will be a sad day when there is no longer any link to that day out on the field bleeding for the team I love.