Footballing Robots.

[happy_tiger]

Do you honestly think that Taylor tells Brooks and Moses to kick down the fullbacks throat ??

Yes.

And im surprised you are even questioning that. It is so obviously a tactic. You must be watching a completely different game.

No

Actually I think they are trying to hit those floating bombs and getting them wrong , because the idea is to get the fullback stationery and then have the ball drift away from them late .

 

[happy_tiger]

It is as simple as this

Our players don't trust in our defence and they never have

They will get nowhere until they do

How many times in tight situations in games when we lead does someone have a brain snap

Its has cost us premierships ffs

We need to learn how to defend our way to victory , exactly like the top clubs do

We all see our side as a team that can score points ,every one else see a team that when you get them in the grind in a tight game will do everything in its power to try and find a way out of the grind

Tell me anything I just said was wrong ??

Then we obviously need to fix it , no quick fixes , no short cuts . Do it right and set the club up for success

I reckon at some stage JT will be the fall guy , but I think in 10 years time we will thank him

 

[Tim Sheens]

But, also as simple as this.

You are not going to win any games when your attack provides a duck egg, whilst also allowing your players to get monstered by running one out.

 

[Tigermama]

the way i see (part of) this:

- stryker and HT: i think the reason youre both disagreeing is that you are both quite right in your assessments…two sides of the same coin so to speak.

HT sees the long term plan and is pragmatic and realistic about the time its going to take for such a plan to start to bear fruit.

i was looking at foxsports this afternoon and reading an article on Mick Malthouses sacking that i related very much to (what i think) is what Stryker is saying:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/mick-malthouse-sacked-six-mistakes-that-led-to-carlton-coach-axing/story-e6frf3e3-1227370015188

4\. POOR GAME PLAN, LITTLE HOMEWORK
>
MALTHOUSE’S lacklustre, defensively-minded game plan had demotivated the Carlton playing group, according to David King.
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The North Melbourne premiership player said it had got to the point where Carlton players had not been playing and training in an enjoyable environment over recent months, meaning they weren’t fully invested in Malthouse’s game plan.
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“They’ve had the life sucked out of them over the past six months. They need someone to come in who’s got a CV and says ‘if we do this correctly, we can win a flag’,” King told SEN on Saturday.
>
“I’m pushing for (a coach) that’s got a brand of football these players can enjoy in a lot of ways. I don’t think (Carlton players) have enjoyed their football over the past six months. It’s not just the losing, it’s the fact they don’t have the flare that they’ve got.”

could it be that by implementing this plan has the players not enjoying actually playing the game? i know it has the fans not enjoying watching it right now, so maybe there is a possibility that the players themselves - as has been mentioned previously (sorry, dont remember poster) - are frustrated (eg; moses yelling at the trainer) and bored and losing motivation?

so we are left with a bit of a catch 22: will the players be happy to spend so long and have faith long enough for Taylors grand scheme to come to fruition (it seems he has/had the right people believing he is the guy who "has the CV and says if we do this we will win a flag")? will they want to go somewhere else where they will enjoy playing? everyone knows the old saying "a happy worker is a productive worker" - true in every job and no less so in rugby league.

and as has also been posted, is it wise to simply continue on this path no matter what? its true the club is basically stuck with Taylor for the term of his contrat, but there is certainly no guarantee following this selected path will actually work. and again (paraphrasing other posters) is this the game plan that is going to set up the foundations for the likes of brooks, moses, tedesco to have their type of game permeate the defensive nature that will be inherent in the team once they are actually free to play more off the cuff?

if in, say, a year and a half's time we are seeing the attack has developed and has been given the correct genesis then Taylor will be hailed as a supercoach.

what if the players become so disillusioned with losing and playing a "dour/gritty" game that they just dont want to be there?

i guess (as has been the buzzword in 2015), all we can do is be "patient" (getting sick of that word!!) and see...

Great post TS. Well thought out. We have no choice but to be patient. But not so sure about the sponsors though. This is a results driven sport after all.

 

[Tigermama]

Do you honestly think that Taylor tells Brooks and Moses to kick down the fullbacks throat ??

Yes.

And im surprised you are even questioning that. It is so obviously a tactic. You must be watching a completely different game.

No

Actually I think they are trying to hit those floating bombs and getting them wrong , because the idea is to get the fullback stationery and then have the ball drift away from them late .

What happens if our half's are not able or capable of improving their kicking game Happy? Do we still persevere with this mind numbing game plan?
I hope JT is smart enough to change it quick smart it if that's the case. :neutral_face:

 

[Tigermama]

If the players are not enjoying it - maybe they can leave.

I think it is more a case of being dirty on themselves for failing to carry out the game plan, or giving away a cheap penalty or dropping the ball etc. etc. It doesn't have to mean they don't want to be there.

As for Moses yelling at the trainer - who knows what he was saying (plenty of guesses on here) maybe he was saying he left the engine running on the car or he forgot to turn off the electric kettle in the dressing room.

Trying to read peoples attitude or demeanor is fraught with danger and invariably wrong.
My wife does it all the time with me - I think she has been right once in 35 years.

Yes because happy players yell at a trainer.

We all want that tougher more structured side the same as you Russel but come on, this five hit ups and a bomb is rubbish.

What if the playmaker can sense an overlpap developing if they hit a side quickly a couple of time. No not under this coach at the moment, stick to the plan and bomb at the end.

We are now losing games that are there to be won.

I don't think JT is stifling them at all , they have to earn the right to attack when in the right field position

We aren't getting in good field position because of our defence , because of our kicking game and our kick chase

Do you honestly think that Taylor tells Brooks and Moses to kick down the fullbacks throat ??

Yes he is looking for hang time with his kicks but surely he is telling them to kick in behind the fullback left or right side and wanting them to kick return from a corner

And when they get in the opposition red zone we do and can use the ball , but more often than not we panic with a stupid kick , lose scrums against the head , throw a bad pass , bad ball carry , you name it we've done it

We lack a back rower with true penetration and that runs good lines like an Ellis or Fulton

I could be wrong , but we look like we have lost confidence in our attack

That's what happens Happy. If you don't use it you lose it :frowning:

 

[Tigermama]

It is as simple as this

Our players don't trust in our defence and they never have

They will get nowhere until they do

How many times in tight situations in games when we lead does someone have a brain snap

Its has cost us premierships ffs

We need to learn how to defend our way to victory , exactly like the top clubs do

We all see our side as a team that can score points ,every one else see a team that when you get them in the grind in a tight game will do everything in its power to try and find a way out of the grind

Tell me anything I just said was wrong ??

Then we obviously need to fix it , no quick fixes , no short cuts . Do it right and set the club up for success

I reckon at some stage JT will be the fall guy , but I think in 10 years time we will thank him

Lol Happy… I hope we can thank him sooner then that. Some on here might not be around then. :mrgreen:

 

[stevetiger]

It is as simple as this

Our players don't trust in our defence and they never have

Another massive assumption. How do you know that our players don't trust in our defence ?

No offence but results matter. Continuing to make up baloney reasons why we have had terrible game plans is simply delusional. Not threatening with the ball in hand is not a valid strategy to become a top club.

Taylor may get it right but so far he has been terrible.

 

[happy_tiger]

It is as simple as this

Our players don't trust in our defence and they never have

Another massive assumption. How do you know that our players don't trust in our defence ?

No offence but results matter. Continuing to make up baloney reasons why we have had terrible game plans is simply delusional. Not threatening with the ball in hand is not a valid strategy to become a top club.

Taylor may get it right but so far he has been terrible.

When players drift from their inside and outside men like Lawrence ,Naiqama and Richards comes screaming it is proof enough

 

[snowleopard]

Looking at the replay of Cowboys game and the bombs we put in the air it seemed the plan was to not chase hard and get to Coote.. but rather hold back and approach in a straight line. Am thinking the reason for this was to stop coote from running forward to catch and gain momentum to break the first tackles and return the ball with big metres and make sure the next few hit ups were met with a solid straight wall of defence.

 

[jirskyr]

Looking at the replay of Cowboys game and the bombs we put in the air it seemed the plan was to not chase hard and get to Coote.. but rather hold back and approach in a straight line. Am thinking the reason for this was to stop coote from running forward to catch and gain momentum to break the first tackles and return the ball with big metres and make sure the next few hit ups were met with a solid straight wall of defence.

That is the idea.

Joel Caine summed it up a few weeks ago - some teams believe kicking high, spiralling bombs is the best way to force turnovers and shut down tackle 1.

If done right, you get your guys to arrive right on the kick and contest. It is also not dependent on lateral position, because you can garryowen from anywhere. Obv it's much less effective too far out from the try line.

Other teams employ the same strategy as us, but may have have better kickers.

The other idea of kicking to the corners, is dependent on lateral position, coz blindside possession typically demands an open-side kick, which is easier for a fullback to intercept. Coaches are also worried about staggered-line defence, where a long kick is more difficult to chase without presenting holes.

Snowleopard is right about trying to arrest fullback return momentum, which can give the opposition strong carry opportunity on tackles 2 and 3.

Consider Roger TS, would you rather arrive on him as he's taking a bomb, or defending a return over a 15 m head start?

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

Do you honestly think that Taylor tells Brooks and Moses to kick down the fullbacks throat ??

Yes.

And im surprised you are even questioning that. It is so obviously a tactic. You must be watching a completely different game.

No

Actually I think they are trying to hit those floating bombs and getting them wrong , because the idea is to get the fullback stationery and then have the ball drift away from them late .

Oh ok so they are just getting them wrong lmfao.

Im done.

Carry on

 

[stryker]

Lol don't argue with Happy…he has insiders inside every corner of the club, which explains how he knows exactly what is going on and what they are all thinking and how the whole rest of us don't.

 

[stryker]

The bombs seem a definite tactic in the same vein as kicking the ball dead to reset the defensive line.

 

[TurnStyle]

Great post TS. Well thought out. We have no choice but to be patient. But not so sure about the sponsors though. This is a results driven sport after all.

thank you TM. its very true that particularly as sponsors go, everyone loves a winner… and sponsors want to be associated with winners and/or an attractive team for obvious reasons and dont join or stick around a commodity that is not doing them good business.

scary thought, but there is so much invested in this current "grand scheme" right now....

could a different plan work better? ie; have the tigers concentrate on playing an attractive, attacking brand of league, throw the ball around, enjoy themselves and be a team players want to join, or stay with as they improve...

maybe that is another way to go about building a successful club? the complete opposite tack?!

who knows? ill have to channel nostradamus methinks... :wink:

but if you are to simplify the game of rugby league to its very core:
the team with the most points at the end of the game wins.

maybe it really is just that simple?!! :laughing:

- some really great posts in this thread: very knowledgeable and accurate assessments for both sides of the dichotomy. well, apart from some niggle, but you get that with passion! :sign:

 

[happy_tiger]

Lol don't argue with Happy…he has insiders inside every corner of the club, which explains how he knows exactly what is going on and what they are all thinking and how the whole rest of us don't.

So far you claimed I have insiders everywhere , I have one which you already know about

You've called me a geek

Accused me of multiple personalities

Called me a dribbler

Trying to win a popularity contest

Anything else you want to get off your chest , big man ??

 

[stryker]

Would you like a tissue?

 

[happy_tiger]

Would you like a tissue?

Just wondering if you were finished and if you had any ideas

 

[cktiger]

It is as simple as this

Our players don't trust in our defence and they never have

They will get nowhere until they do

How many times in tight situations in games when we lead does someone have a brain snap

Its has cost us premierships ffs

We need to learn how to defend our way to victory , exactly like the top clubs do

We all see our side as a team that can score points ,every one else see a team that when you get them in the grind in a tight game will do everything in its power to try and find a way out of the grind

Tell me anything I just said was wrong ??

Then we obviously need to fix it , no quick fixes , no short cuts . Do it right and set the club up for success

I reckon at some stage JT will be the fall guy , **but I think in 10 years time we will thank him**

I'll be more likely dead by then - can you ask him to speed it up?

 

[TrueTiger]

Stryker,Happy,all of us have our differing opinions and we are entitled to give them while being treated with civility ….
Happy your input and comments make sense and they are of your thoughts and opinions ..
Stryker you also have your thoughts and opinions,even if they are opposite to Haps or anyone else's ...
I think at the moment we are all feeling the frustration of a new coach and young kids learning...don't worry I have had my opinions,some Willow and GEO would delete if I were to write them....
Let's not turn our threads into personal attacks,I'm sure we can be adults and very good people while having a discussion..

As has been said many times before " how boring would it be if we were all the same"....

Both you guys are a part of this forum family and your input is respected across the board,I would hate to see it degenerate to personal attacks.....cheers fellas ,let's have a good day..