Hastings VS Brooks

[Pascoes_barber]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

 

[TigerWest]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

 

[Demps]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

Actions speak louder than words.

?

 

[Devon Head]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

I still can't get my head around making Brooks captain. There's absolutely nothing I've seen from him that would inspire me to be great. He comes across as a lost, timid, mute mouse on the field. No wonder the final few weeks were rubbish.

That was one of the stranger calls Madge has made to date. You don't see big companies making the longest serving staff member the boss just because they've been there the longest. You promote the most inspirational leader whether its due to their ability to motivate all those around them or by leading by example. Sadly with Brooksy he does neither. I'd have thrown the arm band to Twal or Luc for those last few games, at least they either have a voice or roll up the sleeves and rip in.

 

[TigerWest]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

I still can't get my head around making Brooks captain. There's absolutely nothing I've seen from him that would inspire me to be great. He comes across as a lost, timid, mute mouse on the field. No wonder the final few weeks were rubbish.

That was one of the stranger calls Madge has made to date. You don't see big companies making the longest serving staff member the boss just because they've been there the longest. You promote the most inspirational leader whether its due to their ability to motivate all those around them or by leading by example. Sadly with Brooksy he does neither. I'd have thrown the arm band to Twal or Luc for those last few games, at least they either have a voice or roll up the sleeves and rip in.

But Brooks probably wouldn’t have played any different and we certainly needed him to play a captains knock, alas he didn’t.

 

[Demps]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

I still can't get my head around making Brooks captain. There's absolutely nothing I've seen from him that would inspire me to be great. He comes across as a lost, timid, mute mouse on the field. No wonder the final few weeks were rubbish.

That was one of the stranger calls Madge has made to date. You don't see big companies making the longest serving staff member the boss just because they've been there the longest. You promote the most inspirational leader whether its due to their ability to motivate all those around them or by leading by example. Sadly with Brooksy he does neither. I'd have thrown the arm band to Twal or Luc for those last few games, at least they either have a voice or roll up the sleeves and rip in.

My theory is that Madge did everything he could to win Brooks over and empower him to succeed.

Moved players around him.
Gave him the captaincy.
All that and he's still continued to fail to deliver.... this guy has had a team built around him and given the keys to the castle and still can't get the job done.

Back to Madge.. he had the tough guy image and he came along to our crew where they think they run the show and are bigger than the team. The tough guy stuff didn't work and they sulked in the media with their egg shell comments garbage... he toned it down and they walked all over him and lost very easy, winnable games.

Brooks' ineptitude and disharmony he has caused this team is unforgivable.

Madge needs to stand up for himself and make the hard calls. Dropping Brooks to the bench for 1 game isn't making a statement, it's actually embarrassing. He needs to put his foot down, demand results and drop him completely. We've got Hastings and Madden, Brooks isn't the only one around that can do the job. Until then, he can't expect any difference to the last 3 years.

@yeahcaz @JC99

 

[JC99]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

Has the “Brooks bagged the coach” got any merit, I haven’t heard it anywhere except here?

I mean Madge made him captain for the last few games, doesn’t seem to be a thing you would do to someone who doesn’t get on with you?

I still can't get my head around making Brooks captain. There's absolutely nothing I've seen from him that would inspire me to be great. He comes across as a lost, timid, mute mouse on the field. No wonder the final few weeks were rubbish.

That was one of the stranger calls Madge has made to date. You don't see big companies making the longest serving staff member the boss just because they've been there the longest. You promote the most inspirational leader whether its due to their ability to motivate all those around them or by leading by example. Sadly with Brooksy he does neither. I'd have thrown the arm band to Twal or Luc for those last few games, at least they either have a voice or roll up the sleeves and rip in.

My theory is that Madge did everything he could to win Brooks over and empower him to succeed.

Moved players around him.
Gave him the captaincy.
All that and he's still continued to fail to deliver.... this guy has had a team built around him and given the keys to the castle and still can't get the job done.

Back to Madge.. he had the tough guy image and he came along to our crew where they think they run the show and are bigger than the team. The tough guy stuff didn't work and they sulked in the media with their egg shell comments garbage... he toned it down and they walked all over him and lost very easy, winnable games.

Brooks' ineptitude and disharmony he has caused this team is unforgivable.

Madge needs to stand up for himself and make the hard calls. Dropping Brooks to the bench for 1 game isn't making a statement, it's actually embarrassing. He needs to put his foot down, demand results and drop him completely. We've got Hastings and Madden, Brooks isn't the only one around that can do the job. Until then, he can't expect any difference to the last 3 years.

@yeahcaz @JC99

Agreed mate, can't pick the same duds every week and expect things to change. Brooks is done

 

[Devon Head]

@Demps hard not to agree with all of that. I've wanted Brooks to succeed for years and finally deliver on the hype that surrounded him very early in his career. He has it in him and that's the frustrating part. 2018 was a pretty solid without being spectacular year. If he could produce that each year he'd silence a lot of critics. He just makes poor decisions and looks lost.

The amount of times he runs himself into a dead end on the 5th and not being in position for the kick amazes me. The amount of times he fails to find the in goal or puts up midfield bombs 50m out also amazes me. The amount of time he gets his decoy runners completely mixed up causing himself to have to take a voluntary tackle is school boy stuff.

I honestly feel for the sake of himself and the team he needs to be moved on, with the greatest respect of course.

 

[Topchook]

Just on Hastings.

2019 made the grand final with Salford

2020 made the grand final with Wigan

2021 will be playing in an elimination final on Friday morning

Is only 25 years of age.

I think he will go OK.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Keep both Brooks and Hastings and find a centre spot for Douhie

 

[Guest]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

That's still very much speculation. Having said that, Brooks at 7 can't continue. I'd train Hastings at 7, move Brooks to 6, he should be looking to run rather than organise and just look to hit hole runners on the edges which he is capable of doing.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

That's still very much speculation. Having said that, Brooks at 7 can't continue. I'd train Hastings at 7, move Brooks to 6, he should be looking to run rather than organise and just look to hit hole runners on the edges which he is capable of doing.

Provided he can remember to (run).

 

[Spartan117]

I’d train Hastings at 7, move Brooks to 6, he should be looking to run rather than organise and just look to hit hole runners on the edges which he is capable of doing.

Totally agree,

Brooks has got some good skills and very decent defence. Can be lethal in attack and V fast

Lacks critical discussion making and organising ability as evidenced over virtually his entire career to date.

 

[TillLindemann]

Just on Hastings.

2019 made the grand final with Salford

2020 made the grand final with Wigan

2021 will be playing in an elimination final on Friday morning

Is only 25 years of age.

I think he will go OK.

Salford are dreadful, they had been entrenched in the bottom rung for decades. That he took them to a grand final is amazing, and that's when he really got my attention.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

 

[Pascoes_barber]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

But...he's not? 😕

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

But...he's not? 😕

He's not super consistent, but he plays enough good games in a year that should be able to take us to the finals. He's your classic rocks and diamonds halfback.

**Halfback Standards**
Until Cooper Cronk and Thurston came along, most fans didn't overestimate their halfbacks. Go watch late 90s and early 2000s games. When a team went well, they usually had a halfback who went on a streaky run of form, but otherwise he was fairly average in his career before that, including several rubbish performances in a single season.

Cronk, Thurston, and Johns before them changed how people looked at halfbacks. These days they can't have mistakes in them. The halfback has to execute those half-chances at a high strike rate.

Someone like Brett Kimmorley went underrated, simply because the standard of halfback play in his era was phenomenally high. He would be considered the best player in the game right now if he played, and did what he did in the late 90s/early-to-mid 2000s in this era. He did what Nathan Cleary is doing now. The problem with people remembering his achievements is that he did it for 3-4 years for 1 premiership, while Cronk and Thurston did it for 15 years for multiple premierships each.

Every halfback is now held to those standards. The standard is unreasonable. We need to dial back our expectations and realise that very few halfbacks can play well in 20 out of 24 games in a season. Especially when they don't have an amazing team around them.12-15 is a better expectation.

The reason I bring up Kimmorley is to exemplify the fact that people thought he was "an above average halfback". People's standards for that era are Cronk, Lockyer, and Thurston. The next tier down for them is a guy who would be a superstar today. They carried those standards through to today, not realising the immense ability those guys had.

**Good Players Around Him**
The more good players a halfback has in their team, the more they learn how to play a style to take advantage of those players' skills. Look at Jahrome Hughes. Same age. His development was way behind Luke Brooks in 2018.

Hughes has now gone way past Brooks. He has a good team and coaching structures around him. The key to Melbourne is they have players who are very good at a few certain skills. Most of their players are not all-round players, but the specific role Bellamy needs them to perform he can rely on them to do it correctly 95% of the time.

The problem with halfbacks at the moment is they are taught structures, but aren't allowed time to learn how to read and compare the attacking structure with the defensive structure. Hughes was able learn how to read those structures thanks to the great players he has around him. Guys like the Bromwich brothers, Asofa-Solomona, Kamikamica, Welch, and Kaufisi don't get enough credit. They run the perfect lines all day, which allows the halfback to watch and react, and give it to the second receiver if he doesn't see anything.

Even in our premiership year, we had many players in career best form at the time. Scott Prince was able to do what he did in 2005 because there were so many good players for him at his disposal. We had threat from the ruck (Farah + the forwards and the threat of a dummy half kick), threat from first receiver (fast forwards consistently running their lines perfectly, which means the halfback can delay his delivery until the perfect moment), and brilliance out wide (Benji and Hodgson). Prince remained good after that for a few years, but he never really re-captured what happened in that year.

Compare that to us. We often have guys running the wrong line, players overrunning decoys, guys trying to get in their structures and not paying attention to what's going on at the ball area (so not ready for offloads or line breaks).

**An Example of what a team actually looks like when it is due to the halfback's performance:**
The Raiders in 2021 are a good example of what can go wrong when the halfback is not playing well. They have so many good players in their team, almost all of whom are doing their job, but the halfback was getting it wrong more often than not. I actually think Brooks would kill it for the Raiders.

For Brooks, each season he is narrowing his gaps in form. With the exception of 2020, his patches are getting longer. I feel like now is the wrong time to get rid of him. Last off season was the time to get rid of him. His median performance is trending upwards at the moment.

 

[bigsiro]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

So, if he leaves he is no longer a good halfback?

 

[Needaname]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

But...he's not? 😕

He's not super consistent, but he plays enough good games in a year that should be able to take us to the finals. He's your classic rocks and diamonds halfback.

**Halfback Standards**
Until Cooper Cronk and Thurston came along, most fans didn't overestimate their halfbacks. Go watch late 90s and early 2000s games. When a team went well, they usually had a halfback who went on a streaky run of form, but otherwise he was fairly average in his career before that, including several rubbish performances in a single season.

Cronk, Thurston, and Johns before them changed how people looked at halfbacks. These days they can't have mistakes in them. The halfback has to execute those half-chances at a high strike rate.

Someone like Brett Kimmorley went underrated, simply because the standard of halfback play in his era was phenomenally high. He would be considered the best player in the game right now if he played, and did what he did in the late 90s/early-to-mid 2000s in this era. He did what Nathan Cleary is doing now. The problem with people remembering his achievements is that he did it for 3-4 years for 1 premiership, while Cronk and Thurston did it for 15 years for multiple premierships each.

Every halfback is now held to those standards. The standard is unreasonable. We need to dial back our expectations and realise that very few halfbacks can play well in 20 out of 24 games in a season. Especially when they don't have an amazing team around them.12-15 is a better expectation.

The reason I bring up Kimmorley is to exemplify the fact that people thought he was "an above average halfback". People's standards for that era are Cronk, Lockyer, and Thurston. The next tier down for them is a guy who would be a superstar today. They carried those standards through to today, not realising the immense ability those guys had.

**Good Players Around Him**
The more good players a halfback has in their team, the more they learn how to play a style to take advantage of those players' skills. Look at Jahrome Hughes. Same age. His development was way behind Luke Brooks in 2018.

Hughes has now gone way past Brooks. He has a good team and coaching structures around him. The key to Melbourne is they have players who are very good at a few certain skills. Most of their players are not all-round players, but the specific role Bellamy needs them to perform he can rely on them to do it correctly 95% of the time.

The problem with halfbacks at the moment is they are taught structures, but aren't allowed time to learn how to read and compare the attacking structure with the defensive structure. Hughes was able learn how to read those structures thanks to the great players he has around him. Guys like the Bromwich brothers, Asofa-Solomona, Kamikamica, Welch, and Kaufisi don't get enough credit. They run the perfect lines all day, which allows the halfback to watch and react, and give it to the second receiver if he doesn't see anything.

Even in our premiership year, we had many players in career best form at the time. Scott Prince was able to do what he did in 2005 because there were so many good players for him at his disposal. We had threat from the ruck (Farah + the forwards and the threat of a dummy half kick), threat from first receiver (fast forwards consistently running their lines perfectly, which means the halfback can delay his delivery until the perfect moment), and brilliance out wide (Benji and Hodgson). Prince remained good after that for a few years, but he never really re-captured what happened in that year.

Compare that to us. We often have guys running the wrong line, players overrunning decoys, guys trying to get in their structures and not paying attention to what's going on at the ball area (so not ready for offloads or line breaks).

**An Example of what a team actually looks like when it is due to the halfback's performance:**
The Raiders in 2021 are a good example of what can go wrong when the halfback is not playing well. They have so many good players in their team, almost all of whom are doing their job, but the halfback was getting it wrong more often than not. I actually think Brooks would kill it for the Raiders.

For Brooks, each season he is narrowing his gaps in form. With the exception of 2020, his patches are getting longer. I feel like now is the wrong time to get rid of him. Last off season was the time to get rid of him. His median performance is trending upwards at the moment.

long read, good detail, well composed. Yeah
I’m wondering based off your last paragraph whether you watched him closely this year and what how you would assess his performance.
Emotion aside, and not discounting some of the errors he made. How did you feel he progressed through the year? What areas did he looked improved in from the years prior? What did he do well this year? What didn’t he do well? What does he need to do more of? What areas did he drop off in from years prior? Do you see his future as a 6 or 7 or the number / position won’t make a difference.
Cheers.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

But...he's not? 😕

He's not super consistent, but he plays enough good games in a year that should be able to take us to the finals. He's your classic rocks and diamonds halfback.

**Halfback Standards**
Until Cooper Cronk and Thurston came along, most fans didn't overestimate their halfbacks. Go watch late 90s and early 2000s games. When a team went well, they usually had a halfback who went on a streaky run of form, but otherwise he was fairly average in his career before that, including several rubbish performances in a single season.

Cronk, Thurston, and Johns before them changed how people looked at halfbacks. These days they can't have mistakes in them. The halfback has to execute those half-chances at a high strike rate.

Someone like Brett Kimmorley went underrated, simply because the standard of halfback play in his era was phenomenally high. He would be considered the best player in the game right now if he played, and did what he did in the late 90s/early-to-mid 2000s in this era. He did what Nathan Cleary is doing now. The problem with people remembering his achievements is that he did it for 3-4 years for 1 premiership, while Cronk and Thurston did it for 15 years for multiple premierships each.

Every halfback is now held to those standards. The standard is unreasonable. We need to dial back our expectations and realise that very few halfbacks can play well in 20 out of 24 games in a season. Especially when they don't have an amazing team around them.12-15 is a better expectation.

The reason I bring up Kimmorley is to exemplify the fact that people thought he was "an above average halfback". People's standards for that era are Cronk, Lockyer, and Thurston. The next tier down for them is a guy who would be a superstar today. They carried those standards through to today, not realising the immense ability those guys had.

**Good Players Around Him**
The more good players a halfback has in their team, the more they learn how to play a style to take advantage of those players' skills. Look at Jahrome Hughes. Same age. His development was way behind Luke Brooks in 2018.

Hughes has now gone way past Brooks. He has a good team and coaching structures around him. The key to Melbourne is they have players who are very good at a few certain skills. Most of their players are not all-round players, but the specific role Bellamy needs them to perform he can rely on them to do it correctly 95% of the time.

The problem with halfbacks at the moment is they are taught structures, but aren't allowed time to learn how to read and compare the attacking structure with the defensive structure. Hughes was able learn how to read those structures thanks to the great players he has around him. Guys like the Bromwich brothers, Asofa-Solomona, Kamikamica, Welch, and Kaufisi don't get enough credit. They run the perfect lines all day, which allows the halfback to watch and react, and give it to the second receiver if he doesn't see anything.

Even in our premiership year, we had many players in career best form at the time. Scott Prince was able to do what he did in 2005 because there were so many good players for him at his disposal. We had threat from the ruck (Farah + the forwards and the threat of a dummy half kick), threat from first receiver (fast forwards consistently running their lines perfectly, which means the halfback can delay his delivery until the perfect moment), and brilliance out wide (Benji and Hodgson). Prince remained good after that for a few years, but he never really re-captured what happened in that year.

Compare that to us. We often have guys running the wrong line, players overrunning decoys, guys trying to get in their structures and not paying attention to what's going on at the ball area (so not ready for offloads or line breaks).

**An Example of what a team actually looks like when it is due to the halfback's performance:**
The Raiders in 2021 are a good example of what can go wrong when the halfback is not playing well. They have so many good players in their team, almost all of whom are doing their job, but the halfback was getting it wrong more often than not. I actually think Brooks would kill it for the Raiders.

For Brooks, each season he is narrowing his gaps in form. With the exception of 2020, his patches are getting longer. I feel like now is the wrong time to get rid of him. Last off season was the time to get rid of him. His median performance is trending upwards at the moment.

long read, good detail, well composed. Yeah
I’m wondering based off your last paragraph whether you watched him closely this year and what how you would assess his performance.
Emotion aside, and not discounting some of the errors he made. How did you feel he progressed through the year? What areas did he looked improved in from the years prior? What did he do well this year? What didn’t he do well? What does he need to do more of? What areas did he drop off in from years prior? Do you see his future as a 6 or 7 or the number / position won’t make a difference.
Cheers.

- Kicking game was much improved. Had a decent variety, including spirals and higher bombs. Found grass quite often which was good to see.
- His decision making around run or pass around the 50-40m zone was quite bad. Teams are marking him better every year. He needs to call more unders lines on our centre to cut inside.
- His runs on their own were actually quite good, but no one seems to back them up. So even though he gets a fast play of the ball, the next play is always a shambles. Seems like he does them out of nowhere, with no visual cues. Either that or team mates are not paying attention. After he runs, the other playmakers should have a play ready to go.
- Same as previous years, he strengthens his weaknesses, but forgets his strengths. Some parts of his game are going forward, while others are going backwards. He used to be a good player under broken play, now he looks like a possum in headlights when the structures are broken. Some years his short kicking game is great, others it's terrible. His long kicking was the best it's ever been. He looked like a proper NRL half when coming out of our own end.
- Didn't change his game when Laurie and Doueihi got injured. He still ran the same plays regardless of the 1/6. This meant when the ball got to second and third receiver, the players who were receiving the ball did not have the ability to create positive play.
- Dreadful in the red zone attack. Ran too many similar shapes which opposition defences could quickly identify as the game went on. This is probably why we quite often had flurries of points in the second half. Our game would all of a sudden break loose and the opposition needed a moment to react to the change in tempo. We need more second phase play and more short shifts in the hot ball areas. If you watch Melbourne attack a goal line, their second receiver is usually standing within 5m of the first receiver. It forces defences to make quicker decisions.

To be honest, I see his future at another club. We ask him to wear too many hats, more than he can handle. He would play well in a team where his role was more simplified.