Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[Spacecub]

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see our roster under a Bennett, Bellyache, Robinson or Flanagan, I think it will be plainly evident that it's not the players
>
It's not the players?? Are you serious? A fair few of these plodders have had more than one coach in their tenure at WT.
It's 100% the players. Starting with the myth of all myths Brooks.

I don't think it is the players honky, Brooks won half of the year not long back,so he obviously has ability...There's only one myth in this club and that's Maguire, but I except your opinion

So just out of interest where do you think we should have finished this season?

That's hard to say telltails I actually think we have a better squad, than cronulla, they look like finishing in the 8....they have had a pretty disrupted year, Johnny Morris has done a pretty good job

Almost every player in cronulla would be a walk up starters in our team.

So sharon woods would be welcomed back

 

[Telltails]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

 

[Krammy]

He might do a good job when he gets the team he wants but he’s been very disappointing with existing players. Holbrook and Payten have shown you can improve a team without needing to completely change the roster.

Agree. I think your really great coaches, like Bellamy and Robinson, are able to get the best out of their lower tier players. This impacts enormously on the success of a club. You rarely see a team coached by Bellamy or Robinson not show great desperation and energy in defence and rarely do they clock off in games.

Man that’s crap. Those guys recruit a specific type of player with certain intangibles. It’s not like they recruit everyone . Fringe players are of a specific ilk , and usually very similiar . For elite quality , whichever team they’re in matters little .
Also most of this teams personalities were brought to the club under a completely different philosophy. Both those coaches structures have been in place for years , so players who go there , are very aware of what they are there for .
We have to put an identity in place . We are still fielding a team recruited under a different identity .

Not quite sure what you mean by this? I guess you mean the Cleary way compared to Madge's way. Yes we need identity, but I still argue that Bellamy and Robinson get the best out of their lower tier or fringe players. Whatever their structures are and/or how their identity is defined, you see players achieve to the best of their ability under these coaches. Getting the best out of your players, knowing their strengths and weaknesses, is ultimately the sign of a great coach.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

 

[Telltails]

He might do a good job when he gets the team he wants but he’s been very disappointing with existing players. Holbrook and Payten have shown you can improve a team without needing to completely change the roster.

Agree. I think your really great coaches, like Bellamy and Robinson, are able to get the best out of their lower tier players. This impacts enormously on the success of a club. You rarely see a team coached by Bellamy or Robinson not show great desperation and energy in defence and rarely do they clock off in games.

Man that’s crap. Those guys recruit a specific type of player with certain intangibles. It’s not like they recruit everyone . Fringe players are of a specific ilk , and usually very similiar . For elite quality , whichever team they’re in matters little .
Also most of this teams personalities were brought to the club under a completely different philosophy. Both those coaches structures have been in place for years , so players who go there , are very aware of what they are there for .
We have to put an identity in place . We are still fielding a team recruited under a different identity .

Not quite sure what you mean by this? I guess you mean the Cleary way compared to Madge's way. Yes we need identity, but I still argue that Bellamy and Robinson get the best out of their lower tier or fringe players. Whatever their structures are and/or how their identity is defined, you see players achieve to the best of their ability under these coaches. Getting the best out of your players, knowing their strengths and weaknesses, is ultimately the sign of a great coach.

Because Bellamy and Robinson make.sure they have the best players around their lower tier players. Brenko Lee is still average but look who is inside and outside him - all he has to do is his job. He doesn't have to shine and if he makes errors he will be dropped for someone who doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see our roster under a Bennett, Bellyache, Robinson or Flanagan, I think it will be plainly evident that it's not the players
>
It's not the players?? Are you serious? A fair few of these plodders have had more than one coach in their tenure at WT.
It's 100% the players. Starting with the myth of all myths Brooks.

I don't think it is the players honky, Brooks won half of the year not long back,so he obviously has ability...There's only one myth in this club and that's Maguire, but I except your opinion

Mate, you have always been a very good poster on this forum but this dislike for Madge is really tainting your posts. I really hope this dislike isn't coming from where I think it is.

I don't have a personal dislike for him conchise...hes probably a lovely bloke, I'm purely judging him on results...

I'm frustrated at the results too. But I see it as some blokes have just given up.

That's not on the coach, that's on the individual.

I think they have given up on Maguire, bulldogs and titans players are still having a go, with basically nothing to play for

I think we need players who don't give up no matter who the coach is then...

Maybe if they played for personal pride in themselves we would be better off..

If they need a Coach to 'play for' ..they are not the right 'players' and should be shown the door irrespective

To me it looks like the guys in the papers have given up .
Entitlement is a real issue in sports . Not many players realise the temporary existence they are leading. Often when it sinks in , that there is always someone waiting in the wings , it’s far too late.
Tough love , either works or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t , considering our history , of weak minded play , for me , it questions the viability of that person employment. You can carry those types if the nuts and bolts of the side has a real grit about it . As the aloofness usually goes hand in hand with immense talent. But the nuts and bolts of this side , are made in Taiwan if you get what I mean.

 

[Telltails]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

Deflection at its best - never said we have it worse said our challenge is different.
Nice way to get the whole Warriors sympathy angle on board though. Perennial under achievers with untapped wealth of talent, and who should be camped in the top eight every year - but we will ignore that to applaud a recent run of decent performances.

 

[izotope]

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see our roster under a Bennett, Bellyache, Robinson or Flanagan, I think it will be plainly evident that it's not the players
>
It's not the players?? Are you serious? A fair few of these plodders have had more than one coach in their tenure at WT.
It's 100% the players. Starting with the myth of all myths Brooks.

I don't think it is the players honky, Brooks won half of the year not long back,so he obviously has ability...There's only one myth in this club and that's Maguire, but I except your opinion

So just out of interest where do you think we should have finished this season?

That's hard to say telltails I actually think we have a better squad, than cronulla, they look like finishing in the 8....they have had a pretty disrupted year, Johnny Morris has done a pretty good job

Almost every player in cronulla would be a walk up starters in our team.

So sharon woods would be welcomed back

We'll he's averaging 133m so yes

 

[GNR4LIFE]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

Deflection at its best - never said we have it worse said our challenge is different.
Nice way to get the whole Warriors sympathy angle on board though. Perennial under achievers with untapped wealth of talent, and who should be camped in the top eight every year - but we will ignore that to applaud a recent run of decent performances.

Now you’re deflecting. They could have the Roosters squad, and it still would not change the position they are in. We’re digressing way too much. Bottom line is, this club has not moved forward since the boogeyman left, which at the time everyone was celebrating because we’d finally have a real coach. Well, we’ve had 2, yet find ourselves in the same position

 

[Deleted member 3518]

He might do a good job when he gets the team he wants but he’s been very disappointing with existing players. Holbrook and Payten have shown you can improve a team without needing to completely change the roster.

Agree. I think your really great coaches, like Bellamy and Robinson, are able to get the best out of their lower tier players. This impacts enormously on the success of a club. You rarely see a team coached by Bellamy or Robinson not show great desperation and energy in defence and rarely do they clock off in games.

Man that’s crap. Those guys recruit a specific type of player with certain intangibles. It’s not like they recruit everyone . Fringe players are of a specific ilk , and usually very similiar . For elite quality , whichever team they’re in matters little .
Also most of this teams personalities were brought to the club under a completely different philosophy. Both those coaches structures have been in place for years , so players who go there , are very aware of what they are there for .
We have to put an identity in place . We are still fielding a team recruited under a different identity .

Not quite sure what you mean by this? I guess you mean the Cleary way compared to Madge's way. Yes we need identity, but I still argue that Bellamy and Robinson get the best out of their lower tier or fringe players. Whatever their structures are and/or how their identity is defined, you see players achieve to the best of their ability under these coaches. Getting the best out of your players, knowing their strengths and weaknesses, is ultimately the sign of a great coach.

No , those people recruited are a particular way , and fit a certain profile , that the storm would have identified is key for them. The youngsters are groomed into meeting this , and if they’re not ala Matt Lodge , they’re shipped out . We have a team recruited under a different coach to meet a different training , social , philosophical dynamic . Eg. A more touchy feels type .
We replace him , with a guy who is about accountability , and to be honest a more regimented way. The systems that were put in place throughout the club now have to shift to this . Everywhere . And because of the way the NRLs contracts are , usually you have to wait for the guys who are like “screw this “ to leave , or the expiry of their contracts .
Bellamy went to the storm , who already had a similar ethos in place to his , under graham Murray . And if you know anything about Chris Anderson , he was a regimented type as well. There’s continuity there. Madge and Cleary are nothing alike. Robinson went to the roosters , who also drive high standards as a general rule . Once again continuity.

 

[Strider]

Shame we couldn't keep Ivan and get Nathan

 

[Telltails]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

Deflection at its best - never said we have it worse said our challenge is different.
Nice way to get the whole Warriors sympathy angle on board though. Perennial under achievers with untapped wealth of talent, and who should be camped in the top eight every year - but we will ignore that to applaud a recent run of decent performances.

Now you’re deflecting. They could have the Roosters squad, and it still would not change the position they are in. We’re digressing way too much. Bottom line is, this club has not moved forward since the boogeyman left, which at the time everyone was celebrating because we’d finally have a real coach. Well, we’ve had 2, yet find ourselves in the same position

If you honestly believe that GNR well you a sucker for punishment.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

Deflection at its best - never said we have it worse said our challenge is different.
Nice way to get the whole Warriors sympathy angle on board though. Perennial under achievers with untapped wealth of talent, and who should be camped in the top eight every year - but we will ignore that to applaud a recent run of decent performances.

Now you’re deflecting. They could have the Roosters squad, and it still would not change the position they are in. We’re digressing way too much. Bottom line is, this club has not moved forward since the boogeyman left, which at the time everyone was celebrating because we’d finally have a real coach. Well, we’ve had 2, yet find ourselves in the same position

If you honestly believe that GNR well you a sucker for punishment.

We just had 50 put on us, and about to miss the finals for the 9th year in a row. The 4th since the boogeyman left. And we’re in a better position now because?

 

[Strider]

There was talk on forum of extending madges contract asap. I think it's kinda madness. If his third year is like this I wouldn't want to sign him for ages like Seibold. Hopefully next year it comes good. Our defence is much poorer than IC, our team spirit and Brooks seems poorer than ICs year. No extension for me till he earns it.

 

[tigerballs]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

I would suggest a couple of those "scraps" would get a start with WT.

 

[Honkylips]

I know it's not going to happen, but I'd love to see our roster under a Bennett, Bellyache, Robinson or Flanagan, I think it will be plainly evident that it's not the players
>
It's not the players?? Are you serious? A fair few of these plodders have had more than one coach in their tenure at WT.
It's 100% the players. Starting with the myth of all myths Brooks.

I don't think it is the players honky, Brooks won half of the year not long back,so he obviously has ability...There's only one myth in this club and that's Maguire, but I except your opinion

Mate, you have always been a very good poster on this forum but this dislike for Madge is really tainting your posts. I really hope this dislike isn't coming from where I think it is.

I don't have a personal dislike for him conchise...hes probably a lovely bloke, I'm purely judging him on results...

I'm frustrated at the results too. But I see it as some blokes have just given up.

That's not on the coach, that's on the individual.

I think they have given up on Maguire, bulldogs and titans players are still having a go, with basically nothing to play for

I think we need players who don't give up no matter who the coach is then...

Maybe if they played for personal pride in themselves we would be better off..

If they need a Coach to 'play for' ..they are not the right 'players' and should be shown the door irrespective

Players who don't give up. Personal pride. Both went out the window in the late 90s. Gen Y'ers are not wired that way I'm afraid Geo.

 

[ElleryHanley]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

 

[Strider]

And lock. Who is our lock Twal? Doesn't seem to have the ball skills for the modern lock. Pretty worried for next year.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

 

[Telltails]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

Save the poor Madge crap for someone else - never call him Madge. Even the Warriors have their best players earning the most money and they have been perenial underachievers for years considering the wealth of talent they have to choose from. Their problems can't be compared to ours and they contracted a coach in Kearney who had history of not delivering. No one is denying Payten has stepped up but it has nothing to do with the challenges that we have.

I know right. We have it much worse. They’ve only been away from home forr 6 months on top of everything else. Pfft sooks.

Deflection at its best - never said we have it worse said our challenge is different.
Nice way to get the whole Warriors sympathy angle on board though. Perennial under achievers with untapped wealth of talent, and who should be camped in the top eight every year - but we will ignore that to applaud a recent run of decent performances.

Now you’re deflecting. They could have the Roosters squad, and it still would not change the position they are in. We’re digressing way too much. Bottom line is, this club has not moved forward since the boogeyman left, which at the time everyone was celebrating because we’d finally have a real coach. Well, we’ve had 2, yet find ourselves in the same position

If you honestly believe that GNR well you a sucker for punishment.

We just had 50 put on us, and about to miss the finals for the 9th year in a row. The 4th since the boogeyman left. And we’re in a better position now because?

Did I say we are in a better position now? I thought we were discussing why we are not in a better position.
When and if we have a roster equivalent to the Roosters and we still fail as you suggested then we will have something relevant to discuss.