High-scoring wins didn't help us: Taylor

[stevetiger]

If JT has only this yr to get results, why did the board give him 3 yrs? I don't buy it's top 8 or bye bye. Maybe it is if we finish 15th again, but no way if we finish 9th-12th imo.

I don't buy top 8 this year or bye bye but I do think we have to make the 8 this year or the next. If we have another dud season then surely JT will be on notice. He may get another year but no management worth anything at all will retain a coach if he gives you 3 dud seasons.

 

[foreveratiger]

The bottom line is JT will be judged on results at the end of the year, it's a result driven business…..you win? that = bums on seats, lose = loosing money at Leichhardt and Campbelltown. I read ages ago that anything less than 15,000 we actually lose money at these grounds ( stand to be corrected).

At the end of the year when the board sit down with JT to discuss his Coaching for the year.....they will only care about how many wins the side have had as that has a snowball effect on Sponsors and member's etc....
JT's argument that our defence has improved? Would mean diddly squat to them.
It is way to early in the Season to say if our defence or attack has improved, we let in how many points vs the Warriors and let them back in with a sniff same as Manly.
Vs the Titans same can be said with our defence but there was other factors some will argue, Vs the Eels....It was a poor game from both sides and yeah our defence looked great but by gee Parra dropped alot of ball in the 2nd and 3rd tackle within our 20 metre line.

We need to find the balance cause playing to erratic and not playing the percentages will only put pressure on ourselves when plays don't come off, patience and build pressure is the name of the game and knowing when to chance your arm.

Let's also be realistic about this squad cause IMO many of our players are just not up to 1st grade standard and we obviously just have to bide our time due to our Salary Cap issues.

I would hope that they would take into account the fact that they have left him stranded in terms of recruitment through having him inherit major salary cup problems.

That is why I have said in the past and like GNR says a 9th-12th finish at the end of the year? I'm more than happy for him to see out his 3rd year.
I do agree he has had a limited budget to spend on players and the 1st year he came in…..he had no say on that squad, with this year's squad his had some input in what to bring in but on the low end of the budget type players. I must add his brought in some very good signings with the limited money his had.

 

[stevetiger]

JT's argument that our defence has improved? Would mean diddly squat to them.

Exactly. Anyone who has half a brain can see this.

JT can harp on defence as much as he wants. His cronies on this board can go on about it as much as they want as well. It means nothing at all.

We need to win games.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

If JT has only this yr to get results, why did the board give him 3 yrs? I don't buy it's top 8 or bye bye. Maybe it is if we finish 15th again, but no way if we finish 9th-12th imo.

I don't buy top 8 this year or bye bye but I do think we have to make the 8 this year or the next. If we have another dud season then surely JT will be on notice. He may get another year but no management worth anything at all will retain a coach if he gives you 3 dud seasons.

And I don't think anyone would argue he deserves another contract if that were the case. But it's hard to judge him fully at the end of the yr without having the luxury to enter the player marker for quality players.

 

[happy_tiger]

I love how you guys resort to ad-hominen arguments. It's pretty sad. I'm 42 and I am 100% confident that I am significantly smarter than both of you. Not that that is saying anything much.

Anyway let's get back to stating how happy we are with coming 15th and scoring 2 points a game.

You may well be smarter than both of us Steve , but when every person I judge as having a great footy mind says defence comes first and wins premierships , you might need to sit down and think you could be wrong on this occasion

It keeps coming back to this freaken dumb straw-man argument. It has nothing to do with not playing defence. We've been over this a million times but we'll do it another time (and probably another millions times later).

Defence is important.

So is attack.

If you score more points via your attack then you let in via your defence you win the game.

If you concede less points than you score you win.

If your oponent concedes more points than you do you win.

If you concede more points than your opponent you lose

As Harvey said before , what would be easier every week ??

Scoring 30+ and hoping your attack is firing on all 8 cylinders , or scoring 18 because your defence does its job

You should send an email to every coach at every club and see what they say Steve , you may be surprised (or they could all be wrong as well )

 

[Geo]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. **We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.**

In nearly all the games we lost last year this was an issue we dropped way too much football missed too many tackles and gifted the opposition field position with lazy or silly penalties….These are in game issues ...the Coach can prepare the team not to do these things...

Coaches can also only do so much...they get way too much credit for wins and cop way too much criticism for losses...

It's time the Playing group were held accountable for their performances as well...rather than just hanging it on the Coach as being bad as quite often happens...

 

[TrueTiger]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. **We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.**

In nearly all the games we lost last year this was an issue we dropped way too much football missed too many tackles and gifted the opposition field position with lazy or silly penalties….These are in game issues ...the Coach can prepare the team not to do these things...

Coaches can also only do so much...they get way too much credit for wins and cop way too much criticism for losses...

It's time the Playing group were held accountable for their performances as well...rather than just hanging it on the Coach as being bad as quite often happens...

Exactly GEO,as I said earlier,if you sack the coach after a poor season and you employ another one with much better credentials and he has 2 dud seasons in a row and everybody calls for him to be sacked,wouldnt you look at your playing roster and see that maybe they arent up to NRL standard because you havent enough money to build a better roster..but as I said its always easier to blame the coach…Any coach can put a gameplan in place ...but if the players cant execute it properly you will probably lose the game....

 

[maxxy86]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.

Not so sure they were great wins and great footy, round 1 without regular half and experience missing was a good win but we nearly got rolled in the end plus not taking an important 2 points to get us 20 ahead really bugs me.
We nearly blew a 16-2 lead against manly with a half and experience back. Then we blew a 10-0 start which quite should have been 12-0 but ended up being 10-6 and quickly 12-10 behind. Our halves have to do more and better play on the field for different circumstances. Get to know the speed of a game. All I hope is that they are fast learners but I'm not quite sure atm.

 

[stevetiger]

No ones arguing that Steve, what they are arguing is how simplistic you view it.

If by simple you mean logical I understand completely where you are coming from. Lots of people on here don't seem to be able to grasp simple concepts so I don't think what I'm saying is simplistic.

 

[stevetiger]

You may well be smarter than both of us Steve , but when every person I judge as having a great footy mind says defence comes first and wins premierships , you might need to sit down and think you could be wrong on this occasion

It keeps coming back to this freaken dumb straw-man argument. It has nothing to do with not playing defence. We've been over this a million times but we'll do it another time (and probably another millions times later).

Defence is important.

So is attack.

If you score more points via your attack then you let in via your defence you win the game.

If you concede less points than you score you win.

If your oponent concedes more points than you do you win.

If you concede more points than your opponent you lose

As Harvey said before , what would be easier every week ??

Scoring 30+ and hoping your attack is firing on all 8 cylinders , or scoring 18 because your defence does its job

You should send an email to every coach at every club and see what they say Steve , you may be surprised (or they could all be wrong as well )

I didn't want to mention this but Mr Bennet and me actually converse a lot on footy so that dialogue is already happening. Thanks for your input though.

 

[stevetiger]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. **We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.**

In nearly all the games we lost last year this was an issue we dropped way too much football missed too many tackles and gifted the opposition field position with lazy or silly penalties….These are in game issues ...the Coach can prepare the team not to do these things...

Coaches can also only do so much...they get way too much credit for wins and cop way too much criticism for losses...

It's time the Playing group were held accountable for their performances as well...rather than just hanging it on the Coach as being bad as quite often happens...

I totally agree with this. I didn't blame JT for the loss against Parra or the Titans.

At the same time JT has to get the team playing good footy. That includes defence. It includes offence. It also includes the dumb plays that players come up with.

This thread was really just about JT going into spin mode as soon as we have a couple of losses. He did it much worse last year and wanted no accountability for the team's performance. He has already started doing it again. That is my criticism against him.

 

[stevetiger]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.

Not so sure they were great wins and great footy, round 1 without regular half and experience missing was a good win but we nearly got rolled in the end plus not taking an important 2 points to get us 20 ahead really bugs me.
We nearly blew a 16-2 lead against manly with a half and experience back. Then we blew a 10-0 start which quite should have been 12-0 but ended up being 10-6 and quickly 12-10 behind. Our halves have to do more and better play on the field for different circumstances. Get to know the speed of a game. All I hope is that they are fast learners but I'm not quite sure atm.

We can disagree that they were great wins or not. At least they were wins. Our halves were a major issue against the Titans and against Parra. They need to improve. The questions become are they worth what they are being paid, do they have the talent and work ethic to get ahead and is the coach creating the right environment for them to perform.

 

[Chadman_s_Ghost]

Or maybe some people simply just don't think he's a particularly good coach.

A big part of being a good coach is having good communication skills.
In my opinion JT lacks that skill.

What is that based on?

From what I see, the team is responding to his defensive mantra.

Is it communicating to the media you are talking about?

Partly, amongst other things. The way he handled the Robbie fiasco is an example and the fact that the club brought in a mediator to talk to the boys and coach is another.
Also good communication between players and coach involves more then teaching them game plans.

Ok, I see what you are saying. And I don't think the thread needs to descend into a Robbie vs JT thread again, :slight_smile: , but I'll say that I'm not sure that JT wasn't crucified a little unfairly in a trial by media, where anything he said was slanted against him while everything Robbie said was painted rather positively.

What he says away from the media, to the team- I'm not sure how we can bag him for that. How do we know?

 

[Russell]

I'm wondering if 2 high scoring wins did us any favours…

Of course it did. This is the thing that kills me. We've had 2 great wins. We did it playing great footy. Against the Titans we were ordinary and against Parra we defended well but our halves were terrible.

We need to rectify that this week. We need to ensure we offer plenty when we have the ball as well as defend like demons. On top of that we have to be disciplined and not give away stupid penalties or take poor options.

Not so sure they were great wins and great footy, round 1 without regular half and experience missing was a good win but we nearly got rolled in the end plus not taking an important 2 points to get us 20 ahead really bugs me.
We nearly blew a 16-2 lead against manly with a half and experience back. Then we blew a 10-0 start which quite should have been 12-0 but ended up being 10-6 and quickly 12-10 behind. Our halves have to do more and better play on the field for different circumstances. Get to know the speed of a game. All I hope is that they are fast learners but I'm not quite sure atm.

We can disagree that they were great wins or not. At least they were wins. Our halves were a major issue against the Titans and against Parra. They need to improve. The questions become are they worth what they are being paid, do they have the talent and work ethic to get ahead and is the coach creating the right environment for them to perform.

Talk about simplistic:

What about this - you buy a new BMW and at the first service the Technician misses a few important adjustments etc. So on the way home you notice it is not performing like it should.

Do you blame the BMW or the Service Technician?

So…. If Broses are getting bad passes from DH i.e. too slow, a little behind etc. how good do you think they are going to perform with no time to think before the defence is in their lap? It is not always who you think is the problem, that is the problem imo.

Oh! and by the way -

All you have do is score more than your opposition to win the game - that is a very condescending statement to most of the Forum - Just spin on your part - we need real answers on how to win. I am sure everyone on this Forum knows you need to score points than your opposition. It is how you do it, that is what people are saying. Simple really.

 

[stevetiger]

So…. If Broses are getting bad passes from DH i.e. too slow, a little behind etc. how good do you think they are going to perform with no time to think before the defence is in their lap? It is not always who you think is the problem, that is the problem imo.

I don't buy this one at all. The halves haven't performed the past 2 weeks and Robbie was good last week.

It's like complaining about it being a little bit cold when you've step in a pile of dog doings.

All you have do is score more than your opposition to win the game - that is a very condescending statement to most of the Forum - Just spin on your part - we need real answers on how to win. I am sure everyone on this Forum knows you need to score points than your opposition. It is how you do it, that is what people are saying. Simple really.

There is no spin on my side. I'm dead-set against the spin and it's what I'm responding too. I have some real answers for you but it has to based on both offence and defence. If you can't get this and I don't think some people do then you have no idea at all.

So:-

1\. We need to keep playing solid defence.
2\. Nofo/Naiqama need to work on their defence against bombs.
3\. We need to utilise Robbie to create some plays around the ruck. He and Mania need to get the forwards rolling forward. We shouldn't bother with Halatau being played there at all. Halatau needs a role and I think it should be as a wide running backrower.
4\. We need to utilise Wood's passing game to other forwards. We are doing this currently but it helps to give the forwards some 2nd phase play.
5\. Our halves need to have options with plays to go too in different situations. For instance they didn't get any deeper against Parra and they should have. This needs a lot of work. I think if we get a roll on they look good but their options under pressure have been really bad.
6\. We need to get Simona's side working. I think Rankin was good on the weekend but put JAC there because he is a weapon.
7\. We need to use Tedesco on both sides of the field but he shouldn't be the only option. We should be trying to give it to him predominantly when he has some space and time.
8\. Keep going to Naiqama out wide. He is consistently busting the line.

Lastly the moronic line that it's just about defence is plainly illogical and stupid.

 

[Harvey]

One of the things I noticed is that the first couple of weeks, we had decoy runners & multiple players in motion each play. This seems to have stopped in the last 2 weeks, with players going one out and being easy pickings.

 

[Cosimo_Zaretti]

One of the things I noticed is that the first couple of weeks, we had decoy runners & multiple players in motion each play. This seems to have stopped in the last 2 weeks, with players going one out and being easy pickings.

We've been missing our starting backrow the past fortnight, and as you say you really notice the lack of bodies in motion. I'll be glad to have Lawrence back this weekend.

 

[Eddie]

The fact is its about winning games.

Tigers were 2-0

Now they are 2-2

I dont care if we win 1-0 or 40-34.

We need wins.

And Taylor needs wins to stay in a job.

Fair dinkum guys give it a break. This is Eddies original post. He quite clearly states its not about the score but about the result - win/loss.

He even points out that hes just as happy with a 1-0 win as a 40-34 win. Can we move forward with the discussion?

Exactly.

I just want to win.

I don't care if its 5-4 or 40-30.

Id rather that then a loss.

But thats a problem on here for a few…

 

[Geo]

I don't no if anyone watched the Souths Manly Game…Souths flew out to a 16 pt lead after 16min....Manly then pretty much had all the possession and field position managed 12 points...and they threw a lot at them...South Sydney's defence won them the game..

Against the Dragons 8 points was enough for them to beat Souths...again it was there defence is what won the Dragons that game...

The well score more than you will get you a few wins ..sure...In the modern NRL it is not sustainable over an entire season...IMO...

P. Sterling In the Couch...Successful campaigns are built on Defence...I agree with him too...

 

[innsaneink]

Exactly.

**<big>I just want to win.</big>**

I don't care if its 5-4 or 40-30.

Id rather that then a loss.

But thats a problem on here for a few…

Your the only Person on here that feels the need to repeat this ad nauseam….
I wonder why?
Do you really just want to win?
You seem to be trying very hard to convince us... Or yourself