If Madge fails.....

[jadtiger]

There are 11 players off contract this year. How many would you keep?

None over 30 or dont 100% buy Madges philososphy.We need blokes who put the team/club first.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Maguire is not the problem it is the players he inherited. The juniors not playing this year has not helped. Need to get rid of overpaid players and say good bye to Lawrence and Marshall season end. I would be blooding players like Madden now with eye on 2021. Give Dylan Smith a go at full back or new signing AJ. Still hurting from Cleary legacy.


Well if the players played with the same enthusiasm as we did the last few weeks we should have won easily, they did'nt.
I heard Madge's press conference prior and he was going on about the NZ and looking forward to having a chat with SBW.
To me that is not focused on what is required for this week with the Tigers.
His selections were questionable, he is persevering with a Captain that is not playing well at centre, Half back on the bench ridiculous.
Twal not fit was he on holidays after the injury, should of been on the bench.
Grant tired and needed a break.
I also don't mind giving players a spray but at half time i would have preferred a game plan instead and a spray later, the players are not respecting the coach and i think he has already lost the dressing room.


Is looking that way, only explanation

I dont know if you have played a lot of Rugby League and Im not critisicing your comments,but let me clarify something for you...

Madge would have done his home work on the Worriors game coming up the next week,he would have spoken to the players and said this is the gameplan for the game...

eg.. I want x to do this I want y to do this etc and they would have practiced moves and plays consistent to his plan...his chair kicking and frustration would have been caused because they didnt adhere to what they have practiced all week and left themselves in a vunerable position that cost them the game...
coaching isnt easy as many of us know,when players dont stick to the plays and plans practiced then it really pisses off the coach...
And yes I have played many years of football and have had strips torn off me for not doing as I was asked by the coach...I did what I thought would help,but instead hindered the process...

Clarification is always good, and i understand the Coach / Captains / Players expectations as have done each role and have copped and given a spray so familiar with the reason why it is given and best timing.

I am sure Madge sat down with his assistance coaches and organized a game plan but although he has the coach role with the NZ squad that was not suppose to be any focus on this just because we were playing the warriors, in reality like the players that took the 2 points as a given, and to supporters frustrations (Including myself) i had banked on winning by +14.

The most frustrating thing is the same thing happens each season and again we won't play finals football. One consolation is that we can sit back and watch the remaining games now with little expectation other than a win against some of the better teams to dilute there finishing spot on the ladder.

I think it was summed up by commentators we just don't have the Squad to compete with the Top teams and i do understand that Madge and Adam Hartigan (Former Roosters) are rebuilding a squad and we still have some dead wood that we are paying overs along with the Robbie Farah/Justine Pascoe debacle limiting salary cap in the past 2 years.

Forwards - Yes they have done a good job, still will take a maybe 2/3 seasons to fully develop as long as we retain.

I do understand the frustration but let me out it this way at half time they were completing at 90%, Finished at 87% and Warriors were 81%.
We were in front but our back 3 were not making many meters, we had too many ineffective tackles which was creating too many off loads and the defense was not stinging like prior weeks. Demoralizing for a team as well when the captain misses a sitter in front then hands the duties onto a player with a busted hamstring.

Apart from the 1st 15 minutes we had lost all spark in attack and it was a neat dummy from a bench player that took us into the break leading at half time.

Madge was booted from Souths as he lost the dressing room even after winning a premiership, and i can see the same thing happening here, he needs to learn that players respond to positives and negatives you need to focus on both.
You only have to look at the half time coverage on Mybe to see the captain was not listening ti anything he was saying, its then i knew we were in trouble.

Its all great Media hype playing up to the camera's and commentators stating wow would not want to be in that dressing room, what do you think the players were feeling at half time.

A spray should come at full time or the selections the following week.

Madge has put too much faith in Mybe as Captain and only performed in 2 games this season, Brooks on the bench is not warranted (Drop like Benji), and Twal was not ready to start.

Anyway up until this game i was a firm supporter of Madge , now he has to earn my respect back just like the players, otherwise he should be shown the door in 12 months as well not making finals. He does need a spine and let's hope reality sets in with Benji not playing on next year.
We also need a goal kicker - What is Hodgson doing this year??????
Selections will be interesting this week, 2 x Players back should make it easier however like to see what he does with the spine.

 

[Russell]

Maguire is not the problem it is the players he inherited. The juniors not playing this year has not helped. Need to get rid of overpaid players and say good bye to Lawrence and Marshall season end. I would be blooding players like Madden now with eye on 2021. Give Dylan Smith a go at full back or new signing AJ. Still hurting from Cleary legacy.


Well if the players played with the same enthusiasm as we did the last few weeks we should have won easily, they did'nt.
I heard Madge's press conference prior and he was going on about the NZ and looking forward to having a chat with SBW.
To me that is not focused on what is required for this week with the Tigers.
His selections were questionable, he is persevering with a Captain that is not playing well at centre, Half back on the bench ridiculous.
Twal not fit was he on holidays after the injury, should of been on the bench.
Grant tired and needed a break.
I also don't mind giving players a spray but at half time i would have preferred a game plan instead and a spray later, the players are not respecting the coach and i think he has already lost the dressing room.


Is looking that way, only explanation

I dont know if you have played a lot of Rugby League and Im not critisicing your comments,but let me clarify something for you...

Madge would have done his home work on the Worriors game coming up the next week,he would have spoken to the players and said this is the gameplan for the game...

eg.. I want x to do this I want y to do this etc and they would have practiced moves and plays consistent to his plan...his chair kicking and frustration would have been caused because they didnt adhere to what they have practiced all week and left themselves in a vunerable position that cost them the game...
coaching isnt easy as many of us know,when players dont stick to the plays and plans practiced then it really pisses off the coach...
And yes I have played many years of football and have had strips torn off me for not doing as I was asked by the coach...I did what I thought would help,but instead hindered the process...


Clarification is always good, and i understand the Coach / Captains / Players expectations as have done each role and have copped and given a spray so familiar with the reason why it is given and best timing.

I am sure Madge sat down with his assistance coaches and organized a game plan but although he has the coach role with the NZ squad that was not suppose to be any focus on this just because we were playing the warriors, in reality like the players that took the 2 points as a given, and to supporters frustrations (Including myself) i had banked on winning by +14.

The most frustrating thing is the same thing happens each season and again we won't play finals football. One consolation is that we can sit back and watch the remaining games now with little expectation other than a win against some of the better teams to dilute there finishing spot on the ladder.

I think it was summed up by commentators we just don't have the Squad to compete with the Top teams and i do understand that Madge and Adam Hartigan (Former Roosters) are rebuilding a squad and we still have some dead wood that we are paying overs along with the Robbie Farah/Justine Pascoe debacle limiting salary cap in the past 2 years.

Forwards - Yes they have done a good job, still will take a maybe 2/3 seasons to fully develop as long as we retain.

I do understand the frustration but let me out it this way at half time they were completing at 90%, Finished at 87% and Warriors were 81%.
We were in front but our back 3 were not making many meters, we had too many ineffective tackles which was creating too many off loads and the defense was not stinging like prior weeks. Demoralizing for a team as well when the captain misses a sitter in front then hands the duties onto a player with a busted hamstring.

Apart from the 1st 15 minutes we had lost all spark in attack and it was a neat dummy from a bench player that took us into the break leading at half time.

Madge was booted from Souths as he lost the dressing room even after winning a premiership, and i can see the same thing happening here, he needs to learn that players respond to positives and negatives you need to focus on both.
You only have to look at the half time coverage on Mybe to see the captain was not listening ti anything he was saying, its then i knew we were in trouble.

Its all great Media hype playing up to the camera's and commentators stating wow would not want to be in that dressing room, what do you think the players were feeling at half time.

A spray should come at full time or the selections the following week.

Madge has put too much faith in Mybe as Captain and only performed in 2 games this season, Brooks on the bench is not warranted (Drop like Benji), and Twal was not ready to start.

Anyway up until this game i was a firm supporter of Madge , now he has to earn my respect back just like the players, otherwise he should be shown the door in 12 months as well not making finals. He does need a spine and let's hope reality sets in with Benji not playing on next year.
We also need a goal kicker - What is Hodgson doing this year??????
Selections will be interesting this week, 2 x Players back should make it easier however like to see what he does with the spine.

Agreed on your first 7 paragraphs - then you went off the rails putting the boot into Madge.

Disagreed with just about all after that except I also noted Mbye not listening at half time.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

Maguire is not the problem it is the players he inherited. The juniors not playing this year has not helped. Need to get rid of overpaid players and say good bye to Lawrence and Marshall season end. I would be blooding players like Madden now with eye on 2021. Give Dylan Smith a go at full back or new signing AJ. Still hurting from Cleary legacy.


Well if the players played with the same enthusiasm as we did the last few weeks we should have won easily, they did'nt.
I heard Madge's press conference prior and he was going on about the NZ and looking forward to having a chat with SBW.
To me that is not focused on what is required for this week with the Tigers.
His selections were questionable, he is persevering with a Captain that is not playing well at centre, Half back on the bench ridiculous.
Twal not fit was he on holidays after the injury, should of been on the bench.
Grant tired and needed a break.
I also don't mind giving players a spray but at half time i would have preferred a game plan instead and a spray later, the players are not respecting the coach and i think he has already lost the dressing room.


Is looking that way, only explanation

I dont know if you have played a lot of Rugby League and Im not critisicing your comments,but let me clarify something for you...

Madge would have done his home work on the Worriors game coming up the next week,he would have spoken to the players and said this is the gameplan for the game...

eg.. I want x to do this I want y to do this etc and they would have practiced moves and plays consistent to his plan...his chair kicking and frustration would have been caused because they didnt adhere to what they have practiced all week and left themselves in a vunerable position that cost them the game...
coaching isnt easy as many of us know,when players dont stick to the plays and plans practiced then it really pisses off the coach...
And yes I have played many years of football and have had strips torn off me for not doing as I was asked by the coach...I did what I thought would help,but instead hindered the process...


Clarification is always good, and i understand the Coach / Captains / Players expectations as have done each role and have copped and given a spray so familiar with the reason why it is given and best timing.

I am sure Madge sat down with his assistance coaches and organized a game plan but although he has the coach role with the NZ squad that was not suppose to be any focus on this just because we were playing the warriors, in reality like the players that took the 2 points as a given, and to supporters frustrations (Including myself) i had banked on winning by +14.

The most frustrating thing is the same thing happens each season and again we won't play finals football. One consolation is that we can sit back and watch the remaining games now with little expectation other than a win against some of the better teams to dilute there finishing spot on the ladder.

I think it was summed up by commentators we just don't have the Squad to compete with the Top teams and i do understand that Madge and Adam Hartigan (Former Roosters) are rebuilding a squad and we still have some dead wood that we are paying overs along with the Robbie Farah/Justine Pascoe debacle limiting salary cap in the past 2 years.

Forwards - Yes they have done a good job, still will take a maybe 2/3 seasons to fully develop as long as we retain.

I do understand the frustration but let me out it this way at half time they were completing at 90%, Finished at 87% and Warriors were 81%.
We were in front but our back 3 were not making many meters, we had too many ineffective tackles which was creating too many off loads and the defense was not stinging like prior weeks. Demoralizing for a team as well when the captain misses a sitter in front then hands the duties onto a player with a busted hamstring.

Apart from the 1st 15 minutes we had lost all spark in attack and it was a neat dummy from a bench player that took us into the break leading at half time.

Madge was booted from Souths as he lost the dressing room even after winning a premiership, and i can see the same thing happening here, he needs to learn that players respond to positives and negatives you need to focus on both.
You only have to look at the half time coverage on Mybe to see the captain was not listening ti anything he was saying, its then i knew we were in trouble.

Its all great Media hype playing up to the camera's and commentators stating wow would not want to be in that dressing room, what do you think the players were feeling at half time.

A spray should come at full time or the selections the following week.

Madge has put too much faith in Mybe as Captain and only performed in 2 games this season, Brooks on the bench is not warranted (Drop like Benji), and Twal was not ready to start.

Anyway up until this game i was a firm supporter of Madge , now he has to earn my respect back just like the players, otherwise he should be shown the door in 12 months as well not making finals. He does need a spine and let's hope reality sets in with Benji not playing on next year.
We also need a goal kicker - What is Hodgson doing this year??????
Selections will be interesting this week, 2 x Players back should make it easier however like to see what he does with the spine.

Agreed on your first 7 paragraphs - then you went off the rails putting the boot into Madge.

Disagreed with just about all after that except I also noted Mbye not listening at half time.

Well at least we agree on 3/4 of the post, I will point this out when you went to school whole were the best teachers, the one's you listened too and learned and respected or the ones you were fearful off?
The result showed winning at half time losing at full time.....

 

[tig_prmz]

bring back tim sheens!

i was one of those who thought it was a good thing that we sacked sheens but wow if i had known the only way is down from there..

 

[jirskyr]

It may sound strange at this time but I think we need to extend Madge 2 years until the end of 2023. He needs the authority that he won’t leave or be sacked if the team turns it up next year. It will also coincide with the second year after the new COE and 1 year after we have a clear salary cap. Whether or not he gets success is a big question but what is certain is that the players and the club will be in better shape. Reality is we need him more than he needs us.

The club has to get better around the coach. We need to spend money on halves coaches like Johns and assistants to help out. It looks from the outside in all on the coaches shoulders.

Agree. I don't believe we will attract a better coach than Maguire Canberra stuck by Ricky Stuart and experienced some ordinary years under him and his reputation as a coach came under question but the club stuck strong and it's paid dividends. There will always be noise about coaches that players and fans don't like - we have all heard the Maguire stories, but feel this club needs to demonstrate stability and that includes backing the coach.

Ricky example is a great one we are in exactly the same position. Can’t recruit anyone and changing culture and team. No one is turning the Tigers into a perennial finals team in the short term.

x2 for both comments. Penrith are only just now seeing the fruits of their "5-year" plan which was more like an 8-year plan. That's not just Ivan Cleary coming in, it's the entire roster and development program over a long period of time.

And you have to consider Ricky not just at Raiders but all the clubs prior - Sharks, Parra, Roosters. It's not just about coaching talent it's also everything about the club, then that special "juice" that makes it all come together.

 

[jirskyr]

I don’t blame Madge. If the players don’t buy in to what he is doing then see you later I say

One of them did, Ryan Matterson. All of Souths eventually did too.

Where there's smoke?

All of South's did? Are you speaking with knowledge of that or assumption. Because people believe and repeat stuff like that.

No knowledge, as such, but repeating commentary about his departure from Souths; that senior players had grown tired and unwilling to put up with his intense manner and approach to coaching and player management.

Maguire, himself, alluded to that when he took on the role at WT; that he had "learnt" from his experiences at Souths. I took that to mean how to better gain and maintain the trust, respect and belief of the players. I hope he succeeds in it here.

Honestly, don't repeat the opinions of other people that have never been publicly stated or confirmed; it's pointless. I know for a fact they asked Sam Burgess about it and he said it wasn't true, I've seen Burgess quoted.

It's an absolute waste of everyone's time, it's the same as the BS that gets repeated about vaccinations and autism, because people are just "repeating what they heard" without direct knowledge or research.

 

[jirskyr]

I think it’s about time we heard from Lee and other board members showing some solidarity and support of Madge.

What like Madge has the full support of the board? If that happens it’s the beginning of the end for Madge.

It’s not needed or required and I certainly wouldn’t want to hear those words.

If the board gets involved publicly then there is a serious issue beyond the scope of the coach and it’s bye bye Madge.


Ha ha, Mike, I see your point, but there are many other ways board members can publicly display solidarity without using that cliche which means the door is now open. Ha ha.
It’s very important that the players are aware that player management and board are as one. We’ve all seen cases where the players perform badly to influence the boards view of the coaching roster. Some players find the training too hard etc.

The board should not be seen or heard . Honestly do you hear about the roosters board , lately and only very lately we have heard anything from Politis

As for board showing some support , you are overdramatising the situation . Yes bad result and bad season , fixing up a club takes time , getting into the 8 is great but no use if it’s not sutainable .

As much as I hate quoting Phil Gould , as he is mr 20/20 hindsight and mostly full of it he has made good points too and that is
- it takes. Coach / board to ruin a club with 12-18 months BUT takes. Coach / board 5 years to fix it .
Look at the mess dib/ des created In the end at dogs , 3 years and still trying to get out of it , but that board has a plan and they have not been falling for stupid media pressure for them to fix it, I guarantee dogs will be a force in 2 years .

Now with madge, it’s his 2nd year it takes time , you can see he is building up the young and junior base, trying to install a culture this all takes time. It’s not a quick fix , board has not panicked and madge does not seem to be panicking .

This is why the board “showing support” will have opposite affect and cause more dramas and the same old same old as past 10years will happen at the tigers

Hopefully the board show some resolve if and when the media pressure gets applied to Madge.


Media article today stated Madge will not stay beyond 21.

Where was that?


The roar article written by placepunter
“Why Harry Grant must not stay with Wests Tigers“
I pretty much disagree with the entire article but you know how this stuff can gather pace Avo.

I wouldn’t put too much stock in roar articles.

Anyway if he goes he goes, who cares really

Roar is where folks go to post punters' opinions when nobody reputable will pay them for it.

 

[gallagher]

It may sound strange at this time but I think we need to extend Madge 2 years until the end of 2023. He needs the authority that he won’t leave or be sacked if the team turns it up next year. It will also coincide with the second year after the new COE and 1 year after we have a clear salary cap. Whether or not he gets success is a big question but what is certain is that the players and the club will be in better shape. Reality is we need him more than he needs us.

The club has to get better around the coach. We need to spend money on halves coaches like Johns and assistants to help out. It looks from the outside in all on the coaches shoulders.

Agree. I don't believe we will attract a better coach than Maguire Canberra stuck by Ricky Stuart and experienced some ordinary years under him and his reputation as a coach came under question but the club stuck strong and it's paid dividends. There will always be noise about coaches that players and fans don't like - we have all heard the Maguire stories, but feel this club needs to demonstrate stability and that includes backing the coach.

Ricky example is a great one we are in exactly the same position. Can’t recruit anyone and changing culture and team. No one is turning the Tigers into a perennial finals team in the short term.

x2 for both comments. Penrith are only just now seeing the fruits of their "5-year" plan which was more like an 8-year plan. That's not just Ivan Cleary coming in, it's the entire roster and development program over a long period of time.

And you have to consider Ricky not just at Raiders but all the clubs prior - Sharks, Parra, Roosters. It's not just about coaching talent it's also everything about the club, then that special "juice" that makes it all come together.

The club needs the resolve to back a coach for a period of time for a real rebuild. Do we have that resolve?

 

[TYGA]

It may sound strange at this time but I think we need to extend Madge 2 years until the end of 2023. He needs the authority that he won’t leave or be sacked if the team turns it up next year. It will also coincide with the second year after the new COE and 1 year after we have a clear salary cap. Whether or not he gets success is a big question but what is certain is that the players and the club will be in better shape. Reality is we need him more than he needs us.

The club has to get better around the coach. We need to spend money on halves coaches like Johns and assistants to help out. It looks from the outside in all on the coaches shoulders.

Agree. I don't believe we will attract a better coach than Maguire Canberra stuck by Ricky Stuart and experienced some ordinary years under him and his reputation as a coach came under question but the club stuck strong and it's paid dividends. There will always be noise about coaches that players and fans don't like - we have all heard the Maguire stories, but feel this club needs to demonstrate stability and that includes backing the coach.

Ricky example is a great one we are in exactly the same position. Can’t recruit anyone and changing culture and team. No one is turning the Tigers into a perennial finals team in the short term.

x2 for both comments. Penrith are only just now seeing the fruits of their "5-year" plan which was more like an 8-year plan. That's not just Ivan Cleary coming in, it's the entire roster and development program over a long period of time.

And you have to consider Ricky not just at Raiders but all the clubs prior - Sharks, Parra, Roosters. It's not just about coaching talent it's also everything about the club, then that special "juice" that makes it all come together.

Phil Gould whilst widely criticised setup a program where the players are in the
Same system from under 16s to 1st grade. Best coaches are in the juniors and the players are well prepared when they hit first grade. It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

 

[sleeve]

Sorry in my comments i meant Scott.

 

[earl]

It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

Interesting. Sort of like the Rorters developed Tedesco and spend money bringing him to the next level. You might be right but I'm not sure we are so bad at development.

 

[weststigers]

This is not the coaches fault.

Under Madge we've put in **some** consistent performances and in some games against the top teams, we've lost players during those games or gone into them understrength through injury. Not making excuses, but it's not that bad as far as our coach is concerned.

We are missing a quality half, centre and winger. Possibly a quality lock.

With Brooks there, it's like he doesn't really know what to do to win the game...

Harry seems to be the only one that takes charge...

Mbye has the pressure of a big salary, kicking goals, playing out of position and the captaincy...we need to take the captaincy off him.

 

[bathursttiger1]

I wonder how we would go with Sheens as our attacking coach and Madge as the defensive coach.
We could always score plenty of points under Sheens, but gave more away, something Madge has fixed.

 

[TYGA]

It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

Interesting. Sort of like the Rorters developed Tedesco and spend money bringing him to the next level. You might be right but I'm not sure we are so bad at development.

We neglected the entire MacArthur region forever. Penrith, Parramatta and Tigers have the biggest nurseries by far. The fact we haven’t got our own talent and perennial finals team is evidence we can’t sign or develop very well.

That said we didn’t retain Moses, Tedesco, Nathan Brown, Ben Teo, Aaron Woods, Taniela Pamela, Andrew Fifita, Ryan Papynhuyzen, Sironen, Korobiete, JAC and more.

 

[JC99]

It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

Interesting. Sort of like the Rorters developed Tedesco and spend money bringing him to the next level. You might be right but I'm not sure we are so bad at development.

We neglected the entire MacArthur region forever. Penrith, Parramatta and Tigers have the biggest nurseries by far. The fact we haven’t got our own talent and perennial finals team is evidence we can’t sign or develop very well.

That said we didn’t retain Moses, Tedesco, Nathan Brown, Ben Teo, Aaron Woods, Taniela Pamela, Andrew Fifita, Ryan Papynhuyzen, Sironen, Korobiete, JAC and more.

Barely any connection to the MacArthur region at this point. Why would the club try work out that way when everything is based at Wests Ashfield and concord. They all end up going to Penrith or eels, we should have a team full of juniors like Penrith but the club persists on ignoring the MacArthur region for whatever reason. Hopefully hartigan addresses that.

 

[earl]

It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

Interesting. Sort of like the Rorters developed Tedesco and spend money bringing him to the next level. You might be right but I'm not sure we are so bad at development.

We neglected the entire MacArthur region forever. Penrith, Parramatta and Tigers have the biggest nurseries by far. The fact we haven’t got our own talent and perennial finals team is evidence we can’t sign or develop very well.

That said we didn’t retain Moses, Tedesco, Nathan Brown, Ben Teo, Aaron Woods, Taniela Pamela, Andrew Fifita, Ryan Papynhuyzen, Sironen, Korobiete, JAC and more.

There are lots of good players in that list aren't there. I think our problem is simply poor roster management over a long period of time which wouldn't be helped by other teams rorting the cap. I agree that we need to develop players and focus on our juniors. I think that is the best way to get ahead but it's not easy. Clubs like the rorters just buy premierships.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Lamenth thread

 

[tony soprano]

Chammas was saying that the players are being managed with fear and not reacting to it.

The look in the players faces at half time does suggest this maybe it was not the right approach???


Interesting yelling at grown men never comes up for belemey.

 

[bathursttiger1]

It’s not just recruitment it’s development which is the problem. It’s why the big clubs win they spend the money in the right areas to help players perform at their optimum.

Interesting. Sort of like the Rorters developed Tedesco and spend money bringing him to the next level. You might be right but I'm not sure we are so bad at development.

We neglected the entire MacArthur region forever. Penrith, Parramatta and Tigers have the biggest nurseries by far. The fact we haven’t got our own talent and perennial finals team is evidence we can’t sign or develop very well.

That said we didn’t retain Moses, Tedesco, Nathan Brown, Ben Teo, Aaron Woods, Taniela Pamela, Andrew Fifita, Ryan Papynhuyzen, Sironen, Korobiete, JAC and more.

Taniela Paseka