Information Session for Magpie Members

Agree in terms of Matts and Ball.

At that age, especially Harold Matthews, some talent is clear and some grows as the season progresses. There is merit in having one elite squad but I think it reduces our catchment to much. Plus at that age it is all about parents time etc as well.

But reading over the proposal I am not sure if that is the case. Much like the financially struggling Balmain State Cup side was wanted to be used by WT as a Wests Tigers branded side. I don't remember reading about merging the Matts and Ball sides but more that WT want to rebrand them and put money in that the other parts of the Wests Group are not wanting to contribute for 2012
 
Without the support of the Leagues club at Ashfield, the Wests RL Football club wouldn't exist. Hence at the end of the day, they have the money and they call the shots.

Having lived through that era when the Magpies fought for survival through the courts, they only won a handful of games between 83-85\. We had the rock concert at lidcombe oval, the fetes in burwood park, the Neville Wran/Bob Hawke functions at Wests Ashfield ….... it was a real us against them. How we ended up staying in the comp I believe to this day is a miracle.

What we have today is so much better than what we had back then .... we actually get on the tele now. We never used to get on back then except for the midweek cup matches. Except for 1978, we were never a chance of winning the comp ..... but these days we are a definite chance.

All that work put in by Rick Wayde, the volunteers and supporters of that era are owed a lot today. As without them the club would have folded and there would be no Wests Tigers today as we know it. And all those who were there at that time are reaping teh rewards today ....... long may it continue :slight_smile:
 
Scrapping Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews would be a mistake as pretty much all of the Wests Tigers best juniors are products of the Western Suburbs Magpies SG and Harold Matthews teams

Also if you look at the NYC team most of the players in NYC are former WSJDRL players.

If anything the Balmain Tigers SG Ball and Harold Matthews teams should be scrapped
 
@happy tiger said:
@alien said:
Both sides of the joint-venture agreed in 1999 to keep the NSW Cup teams seperate, but now one side of the joint venture (Balmain) wants to change the agreement, and it's all because they have gone broke and can't afford their own NSW Cup team. Their stupid thinking is "well if we can't have our own NSW Cup team then Wests shouldn't be able to either." GET STUFFED!

Wests Leagues Club in Ashfield and Campbelltown definitely make enough profit each year to stay alive if they choose to and they should. The Wests Magpies SG Ball team and Harold Matthews team should stay as Wests Magpies aswell. There's no need to merge Wests and Balmain in the lower grades.

So it sounds like you and other Wests supporters will quite happily attempt to bring the Wests Tigers down when you vote whether to attack the Tigers and try and give the Licence back to the NRL
Sure that won't create in instability in the playing roster and their performances if anything remotely close to what some Wests supporters are suggesting on this forum occurs
And then the same Wests Tigers supporters will be bagging their performances on this Forum and won't understand why they are not playing well
Unbelieveable

How is wanting to keep Wests Magpies alive in NSW Cup, Harold Matthews and SG Ball trying to take Wests Tigers down???
 
@Original Magpie said:
Scrapping Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews would be a mistake as pretty much all of the Wests Tigers best juniors are products of the Western Suburbs Magpies SG and Harold Matthews teams

Also if you look at the NYC team most of the players in NYC are former WSJDRL players.

If anything the Balmain Tigers SG Ball and Harold Matthews teams should be scrapped

Things like this don't help. It shouldn't be about keeping one and scrapping the other. You'd be happy with Curtis Sironen playing for Souths or Easts junior teams? Robbie Farah? Many of the recent graduates from NYC to NRL have been from neither area (e.g. Groat and BMM) but at the end of the day Wests produce good juniors, Balmain produce good juniors. Maybe more come from Wests - it doesn't really matter.

The advantage of having a JV is that we should enjoy the proceeds of both rather than trying to score points by championing one above the other.
 
@Yossarian said:
@Original Magpie said:
Scrapping Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews would be a mistake as pretty much all of the Wests Tigers best juniors are products of the Western Suburbs Magpies SG and Harold Matthews teams

Also if you look at the NYC team most of the players in NYC are former WSJDRL players.

If anything the Balmain Tigers SG Ball and Harold Matthews teams should be scrapped

Things like this don't help. It shouldn't be about keeping one and scrapping the other. You'd be happy with Curtis Sironen playing for Souths or Easts junior teams? Robbie Farah? Many of the recent graduates from NYC to NRL have been from neither area (e.g. Groat and BMM) but at the end of the day Wests produce good juniors, Balmain produce good juniors. Maybe more come from Wests - it doesn't really matter.

The advantage of having a JV is that we should enjoy the proceeds of both rather than trying to score points by championing one above the other.

My view is that the issue is not scrapping one team and keeping another, it is the possibility of Wests Tigers severing its direct link with the Macarthur area and it's juniors.

For the record, Groat wouldn't be with the Tigers if it wasn't for the St Gregs -> Western Suburbs -> Wests Tigers affiliation. The same sort of progression should be allowed to continue into the future.
 
But it isnt about that Centaur if my reading of the info is correct.

The way I read it is that Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown do not want to fund the Matts and Ball teams next season. Wests Tigers would take over this funding but it would require a rebranding of the sides to a Wests Tigers name. The link will still be there and in fact the link between the Macarthur region and the Wests Tigers will be strengthened by this move.

It comes down to an issue of naming it would seem. It is an issue which is near and dear to the hearts of many and as such I will not throw around coy remarks or the like but I would re-iterate that the launch of any legal action against Wests Tigers by a WSJDRL with any language of joint venture dissolution will be a terrible one and, regardless of outcome, forever tarnish the name of a proud club
 
We are only having this discussion because Balmain is broke. Dumpty Humpty will not come out and say this, but this is why this is happening. If Balmain was strong enough to stand alone they would, we all know they would dump Wests so fast. A few years ago Balmain wanted Balmain Ryde Eastwood to be the feeder club and I remember reading in the paper about the death of Wests and everybody on this web site argued that this was a great thing, the arguement was Ryde Eastwood is willing to pay for the team, so lets go down that road. Great thinking and sound business logic, so now, well why don't we make Wests Magpies the feeder club. We all know why this won't happen, Balmain would lose a little bit of the control they have. Give the people in Campbelltown something. Give them the junior teams.

Balmain are broke. Pure and simple

We should all remember the reason why Wests Tigers exist is because Balmain knew they were going out the door backwards. The Sydney Tigers at Parramatta stadium experiment in the nineties didn't work and the last train leaving the station was this merger with Wests. Balmain and Wests knew that if they merged with Parramatta and Canterbury it would have been a complete takeover. This was the only hope for Balmain to survive. Wests were gone, Wests had done the right thing by moving to a new and untapped area but their board were not able to make it work.

Balmain do not have a junior competition and their Rep teams are made up of mostly Parramatta and Penrith juniors looking for second chance. We can all pretend that they have juniors but they don't. We can let them go.

We could still play games at Leichhardt Oval, that's part of our heritage. We should play some games their until the ground is condemed. Leichhardt council or any council is not going to spend all lest $50 million to bring the old girl up to scratch when they can sell the site for a motza. Balmain is also fighting against a council which doesn't want a new Leagues club built on the old site. The club still has a long fight ahead with this. It was Star City that killed off Balmain Leagues before and would do it again.

We can argue all we want, but I think we all know that Campbelltown is the future. It's time for Wests Tigers to move the whole everything to Campbelltown. We don't need Concord. Concord is just some warm and fuzzy place designed to be a half way point for both clubs.

St George took over Illawarra because the knew that Kogarah was dead. They did it to survive. St George moved everything to Wollongong because they know thats their future. We don't, we still have this sometimes romantic idea that Balmain and the inner West is the home of Rugby League. Its not, it might have been in the forties and fifties but its not anymore nore will it ever be again.

We need each other to survive but why don't we just tell it how it is. Balmain can't afford to pay its way anymore but want Wests to take the fall.
 
@Centaur said:
@Yossarian said:
@Original Magpie said:
Scrapping Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews would be a mistake as pretty much all of the Wests Tigers best juniors are products of the Western Suburbs Magpies SG and Harold Matthews teams

Also if you look at the NYC team most of the players in NYC are former WSJDRL players.

If anything the Balmain Tigers SG Ball and Harold Matthews teams should be scrapped

Things like this don't help. It shouldn't be about keeping one and scrapping the other. You'd be happy with Curtis Sironen playing for Souths or Easts junior teams? Robbie Farah? Many of the recent graduates from NYC to NRL have been from neither area (e.g. Groat and BMM) but at the end of the day Wests produce good juniors, Balmain produce good juniors. Maybe more come from Wests - it doesn't really matter.

The advantage of having a JV is that we should enjoy the proceeds of both rather than trying to score points by championing one above the other.

My view is that the issue is not scrapping one team and keeping another, it is the possibility of Wests Tigers severing its direct link with the Macarthur area and it's juniors.

For the record, Groat wouldn't be with the Tigers if it wasn't for the St Gregs -Western Suburbs -Wests Tigers affiliation. The same sort of progression should be allowed to continue into the future.

St Gregs have players affiliated with all sorts of clubs on their books. I don't know enough on Groat's background (e.g. who got him down to St Gregs or whether he could just as easily played with Balmain juniors). If the Wests juniors were pivotal in him coming to the WT then they should be praised and it shows why they are worth keeping. On the other hand Aaron Woods is from Balmain, likewise Curtis Sironen. If you ignore the inner-west you risk losing those players.

Like I said, the benefit of having a JV arrangement should be that you benefit from the larger pool of players coming into the system.
 
@Lidcombe Boy said:
We are only having this discussion because Balmain is broke. Dumpty Humpty will not come out and say this, but this is why this is happening. If Balmain was strong enough to stand alone they would, we all know they would dump Wests so fast. A few years ago Balmain wanted Balmain Ryde Eastwood to be the feeder club and I remember reading in the paper about the death of Wests and everybody on this web site argued that this was a great thing, the arguement was Ryde Eastwood is willing to pay for the team, so lets go down that road. Great thinking and sound business logic, so now, well why don't we make Wests Magpies the feeder club. We all know why this won't happen, Balmain would lose a little bit of the control they have. Give the people in Campbelltown something. Give them the junior teams.

Balmain are broke. Pure and simple

We should all remember the reason why Wests Tigers exist is because Balmain knew they were going out the door backwards. The Sydney Tigers at Parramatta stadium experiment in the nineties didn't work and the last train leaving the station was this merger with Wests. Balmain and Wests knew that if they merged with Parramatta and Canterbury it would have been a complete takeover. This was the only hope for Balmain to survive. Wests were gone, Wests had done the right thing by moving to a new and untapped area but their board were not able to make it work.

Balmain do not have a junior competition and their Rep teams are made up of mostly Parramatta and Penrith juniors looking for second chance. We can all pretend that they have juniors but they don't. We can let them go.

We could still play games at Leichhardt Oval, that's part of our heritage. We should play some games their until the ground is condemed. Leichhardt council or any council is not going to spend all lest $50 million to bring the old girl up to scratch when they can sell the site for a motza. Balmain is also fighting against a council which doesn't want a new Leagues club built on the old site. The club still has a long fight ahead with this. It was Star City that killed off Balmain Leagues before and would do it again.

We can argue all we want, but I think we all know that Campbelltown is the future. It's time for Wests Tigers to move the whole everything to Campbelltown. We don't need Concord. Concord is just some warm and fuzzy place designed to be a half way point for both clubs.

St George took over Illawarra because the knew that Kogarah was dead. They did it to survive. St George moved everything to Wollongong because they know thats their future. We don't, we still have this sometimes romantic idea that Balmain and the inner West is the home of Rugby League. Its not, it might have been in the forties and fifties but its not anymore nore will it ever be again.

We need each other to survive but why don't we just tell it how it is. Balmain can't afford to pay its way anymore but want Wests to take the fall.

You may have set a record for the most inaccuracies in a single post…
 
My opinion on this subject is to merge the premier league sides this gives the Weststigers an open aged team to select from and takes the financial burden of both Wests and Balmain .The supporters of the Wests tigers have another team to follow this creates a real feeling of a club to support,Wests and Balmain can provide more money for the development of all junior leagues that they control as the definition implies Junior Rugby league both clubs keep there identities the tradition continues and both clubs will supply hopefully many young and talented players that will look to fullfill there dream of playing for the main franchise team the Weststigers just my opinion .
 
@smeghead said:
But it isnt about that Centaur if my reading of the info is correct.

The way I read it is that Wests Ashfield and Wests Campbelltown do not want to fund the Matts and Ball teams next season. Wests Tigers would take over this funding but it would require a rebranding of the sides to a Wests Tigers name. The link will still be there and in fact the link between the Macarthur region and the Wests Tigers will be strengthened by this move.

It comes down to an issue of naming it would seem. It is an issue which is near and dear to the hearts of many and as such I will not throw around coy remarks or the like but I would re-iterate that the launch of any legal action against Wests Tigers by a WSJDRL with any language of joint venture dissolution will be a terrible one and, regardless of outcome, forever tarnish the name of a proud club

Well if that is the case, I for one don't have a problem with the junior teams becoming Wests Tigers.

However the questions remains, if it is to become Wests Tigers SG Ball/HM's - that would obviously mean the one side for each age group. Where do they train? Where is the home ground? Where are the selection trials held? Where are the players coming from? The moment the answer to any of the above is not the Macarthur region, the direct link is weakened in my opinion.

Call them the Wests Tigers, that is fine. But keep them in Macarthur - otherwise the kids will play somewhere else.
 
I just don't see any benefit in merging the age group teams. Makes no sense whatsoever, Keep 2 teams and the WT Cubs combined team at the end of the competitions. State Cup is a different matter.
 
When the idea was originally floated I believe the idea was to rebrand both teams.

For example Inner Wests Tigers & South Wests Tigers (not the names but used as an example) and establish the complete pathway from all districts, encompassing everything under a WT banner and funded by the Wests Tigers club with specific sponsorships in place from the JV partners to fund each side.

No player reallocation or merger was due but it combines everything into a holisitc system of coaching, education assistance and grooming

I believe that is what Wests Ashfield & Campbelltown are very keen to get done and firmly entrench the brand association.

Thats the last I had heard of it and it may have changed since than
 
@smeghead said:
When the idea was originally floated I believe the idea was to rebrand both teams.

For example Inner Wests Tigers & South Wests Tigers (not the names but used as an example) and establish the complete pathway from all districts, encompassing everything under a WT banner and funded by the Wests Tigers club with specific sponsorships in place from the JV partners to fund each side.

No player reallocation or merger was due but it combines everything into a holisitc system of coaching, education assistance and grooming

I believe that is what Wests Ashfield & Campbelltown are very keen to get done and firmly entrench the brand association.

Thats the last I had heard of it and it may have changed since than

Well that makes more sense… I think rebranding say an U/15 team is more trouble than it is worth but it sounds harmless enough. I'm thinking it will be in the too hard basket at this stage but who knows?
 
@smeghead said:
When the idea was originally floated I believe the idea was to rebrand both teams.

For example Inner Wests Tigers & South Wests Tigers (not the names but used as an example) and establish the complete pathway from all districts, encompassing everything under a WT banner and funded by the Wests Tigers club with specific sponsorships in place from the JV partners to fund each side.

No player reallocation or merger was due but it combines everything into a holisitc system of coaching, education assistance and grooming

I believe that is what Wests Ashfield & Campbelltown are very keen to get done and firmly entrench the brand association.

Thats the last I had heard of it and it may have changed since than

Well if this is in fact the deal, I believe it is definitely a way forward.
 
I know it was the ideal situation as of April.

But who knows what has happened since that was decided
 
Some promising talent has already been taken from the Macarthur district due to the fact WT seem to neglect it.

Players like Tam Lafai, Jack Stockwell, Michael Bullock, Jarrod Thompson, Jason Green, Limoni Latu, Jake Grace, Zach Rasmussen, Tom Morrison, Daniel Alvaro were all Macarthur region players and now play for other NRL teams
 
At the very least… Let the juniors be the two foundation clubs, the Western Suburbs Magpies and the Balmain Tigers. That way the foundation clubs can live on.

The Wests Tigers can be incharge of coaching them, and can put a Wests Tigers logo on their sleeves, but don't kill off the two foundation clubs. One of the few historical treasures our game still has left.
 
@Original Magpie said:
Scrapping Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews would be a mistake as pretty much all of the Wests Tigers best juniors are products of the Western Suburbs Magpies SG and Harold Matthews teams

Also if you look at the NYC team most of the players in NYC are former WSJDRL players.

If anything the Balmain Tigers SG Ball and Harold Matthews teams should be scrapped

I believe that the Wests Magpies SG Ball and Harold Matthews won't actually be scrapped, rather WT simply take over the running of them. It would mean WT would run the teams as Wests Magpies out of Campbelltown, much like Balmain is effectively run by WT now out of Leichhardt. Nothing will really change, just who is running the show
 
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