Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations

@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473398) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473395) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

Sounds like you’re getting a bit personal to me.

I hope he didn’t hurt your daddy’s Justin and Lee’s feelings too much.

All good, we all have opinions.

Lets get out of the realm of opinions and deal in facts.

Why should the club listen to this guy? Has he used his "big business" skills to help the club? is he a sponsor? Has he demonstrated professionalism by keeping discussions discrete? Why should the club listen to or deal with this guy?

What no one is recognising is that this guy has just demonstrated why the club did the right thing not dealing with him. By going on a public podcast and airing his version of the clubs "dirty laundry" he has proven himself as exactly the wrong bloke for the club to deal with.

Pascoe and Tigers Mgt may have made some mistakes, but not dealing with this guy is not one of them.

Someone said he’s on the forum; @trippa101. Ask him?

I just think your posts are a desperate attempt at smothering, because of Pascoe and Lee’s lack of football nous.

I think you’re personally linked to one or both of them, and that’s just my opinion as you said.
 
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473398) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473395) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

Sounds like you’re getting a bit personal to me.

I hope he didn’t hurt your daddy’s Justin and Lee’s feelings too much.

All good, we all have opinions.

Lets get out of the realm of opinions and deal in facts.

Why should the club listen to this guy? Has he used his "big business" skills to help the club? is he a sponsor? Has he demonstrated professionalism by keeping discussions discrete? Why should the club listen to or deal with this guy?

What no one is recognising is that this guy has just demonstrated why the club did the right thing not dealing with him. By going on a public podcast and airing his version of the clubs "dirty laundry" he has proven himself as exactly the wrong bloke for the club to deal with.

Pascoe and Tigers Mgt may have made some mistakes, but not dealing with this guy is not one of them.

The guy probably went public with his comments because he was fed up with the club going round in circles, making the same mistakes over and over again. Just like we all are. Maybe he felt he could instigate some change, change which is very necessary (lack of results).

It's hard to argue against most of his statements. Our club's management has been bullied by clubs for a long time. Other clubs don't take us seriously, other players don't take our club seriously. We're a bit of a joke.

We give up prized assets (Moses, Matterson, Paseka etc) to our rivals for free. We don't play hard ball, we don't force a solution in our favour, even when we get cash (Cleary, Aloiai) it's a nominal amount which doesn't provide adequate compensation for the imbalance the departures cause.

We have no plan, no drawcard, no identity. We have no accountability. Failure is repeteadly tolerated. Who does the board report to?

He does go off on a bit of a fan-based tangent here and there but for the most part he showcases the faults of our management, which are the root cause of our failures on the pitch.

In my opinion Pascoe is not suited to CEO. Maybe a CCO, COO, but he doesn't have the necessary traits to lead a rugby league club.
 
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473411) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473398) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473395) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

Sounds like you’re getting a bit personal to me.

I hope he didn’t hurt your daddy’s Justin and Lee’s feelings too much.

All good, we all have opinions.

Lets get out of the realm of opinions and deal in facts.

Why should the club listen to this guy? Has he used his "big business" skills to help the club? is he a sponsor? Has he demonstrated professionalism by keeping discussions discrete? Why should the club listen to or deal with this guy?

What no one is recognising is that this guy has just demonstrated why the club did the right thing not dealing with him. By going on a public podcast and airing his version of the clubs "dirty laundry" he has proven himself as exactly the wrong bloke for the club to deal with.

Pascoe and Tigers Mgt may have made some mistakes, but not dealing with this guy is not one of them.

Someone said he’s on the forum; @trippa101. Ask him?

Why would I ask him? He just spoke about it on a public podcast.

I just think your posts are a desperate attempt at smothering, because of Pascoe and Lee’s lack of football nous.

Why do you assume that? What is my opinion on Pascoe and Lee's management and on what do you base this? Two things can be true at once. The fact that this guy has zero basis for credibility in this matter has zero impact on Pascoes management.

Do you understand what confirmation bias is? The fact that you are defending this guy and assuming that I am smothering is a pretty good example of it.


I think you’re personally linked to one or both of them, and that’s just my opinion as you said.

Im not and I'd be interested in you providing an example of me defending them.
 
@geo said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473370) said:
@needaname said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473349) said:
@tigerbalm said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473330) said:
Happy to see this thread. Great listen. It really just highlighted the fears that I had about Pascoe and the organisation in general. The guy has to go.

It’s not Pascoe in isolation, he is competent in his role. It’s the management structure in general and the lack of focus and attention in regard to what i would call the ‘football operations’ department.

Our management has identified a gap. Hence the appointment of Sheens.

But I am concerned that we have asked Sheens to head up this division with no actual structure in place and no plan of how that division should operate.

It seems the plan is to trot out Sheens in public relations when needed..

Strewth - sounds a bit like Weekend at Bernies!
 
@needaname said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473388) said:
@twentyforty said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473373) said:
@needaname said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473349) said:
@tigerbalm said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473330) said:
Happy to see this thread. Great listen. It really just highlighted the fears that I had about Pascoe and the organisation in general. The guy has to go.

It’s not Pascoe in isolation, he is competent in his role. It’s the management structure in general and the lack of focus and attention in regard to what i would call the ‘football operations’ department.

Our management has identified a gap. Hence the appointment of Sheens.

But I am concerned that we have asked Sheens to head up this division with no actual structure in place and no plan of how that division should operate.


From what I can understand, there have been a number of new positions created with appointments prior to the Sheens appointment.
I’m still stuck on the way Pascoe publicly introduced Sheens’ appointment. His job description was vague. It sounded like “hey Sheens has agreed to come back, we just need to agree on what his tasks and areas of responsibility are.”
If they knew, they weren’t saying, or they didn’t know? Take your pick? I think they didn’t know and still don’t because now he has a new job title?
It’s hard to know what’s going on ?
The usual practice when developing an organisation is to chart positions with job descriptions according to the needs of its overall objectives. Then you look for people to fill those roles. It may take time to find the right people, but when you do that’s when the magic happens, as those people interact with each other and roles are modified in accordance with consideration to the strengths of each person.
I realise many organisations have opted to find people first , then find a job for them, but taking that literally is hit and miss and takes too long imo.

We are quite literally 10years behind the Panthers.
Gus even said we won’t see the benefit of this till 2030. I don’t know Sheens personally nor Gus but I am asking to the forum if anyone does because as stated above the club has decided to get Sheens back to the club just to be involved. Become a mr football if you like and solve all the problems.

Is anyone confident that Sheens has equal experience to do this, just as Penrith did in 2011 when Gus was appointed as General Manager of Football. There was no title of that nature before that. Now a lot of clubs have jumped on board and appointed similar people in a similar role, us included. But this was also Hartigans position and despite his supporters I don’t see enough in his resume to confirm he was the person we needed to appoint for such an ‘encompassing’ role.

It’s been said many times that we have players who are just happy to play nrl, be known as an nrl player, that’s their apex destination.
What if our decision makers are of the same mindset?
What if our CEO, Chair, fellow board members share that mindset ? It makes sense to me that culture is driven from the top down and as such changing 2 or 3 players, a coach is not going to fix the problem. When the coach moves on we are left with the culture driven decisions.
We don’t need any more proof of this.
We turn good players into ordinary ones.
We can’t hang onto our home bred talent who become champions at other clubs.
How many of our decent players have left angry with us?
I know it’s a nice cliche, one man can make a difference, but when he’s up against the odds?
Sheens didn’t survive last time he tried to change things?
 
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473422) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473411) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473398) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473395) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

Sounds like you’re getting a bit personal to me.

I hope he didn’t hurt your daddy’s Justin and Lee’s feelings too much.

All good, we all have opinions.

Lets get out of the realm of opinions and deal in facts.

Why should the club listen to this guy? Has he used his "big business" skills to help the club? is he a sponsor? Has he demonstrated professionalism by keeping discussions discrete? Why should the club listen to or deal with this guy?

What no one is recognising is that this guy has just demonstrated why the club did the right thing not dealing with him. By going on a public podcast and airing his version of the clubs "dirty laundry" he has proven himself as exactly the wrong bloke for the club to deal with.

Pascoe and Tigers Mgt may have made some mistakes, but not dealing with this guy is not one of them.

Someone said he’s on the forum; @trippa101. Ask him?

Why would I ask him? He just spoke about it on a public podcast.

I just think your posts are a desperate attempt at smothering, because of Pascoe and Lee’s lack of football nous.

Why do you assume that? What is my opinion on Pascoe and Lee's management and on what do you base this? Two things can be true at once. The fact that this guy has zero basis for credibility in this matter has zero impact on Pascoes management.

Do you understand what confirmation bias is? The fact that you are defending this guy and assuming that I am smothering is a pretty good example of it.


I think you’re personally linked to one or both of them, and that’s just my opinion as you said.

Im not and I'd be interested in you providing an example of me defending them.

I’m good bro. Enjoy your day.
 
@hobbo1 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473449) said:
Brydens sucks …
Logo has ruined the jersey
Punt them

Sounds like the only thing left will be the COE and @Geo
 
@happy_tiger said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473458) said:
@hobbo1 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473449) said:
Brydens sucks …
Logo has ruined the jersey
Punt them

Sounds like the only thing left will be the COE and @Geo

And a red leather lounge
 
Excellent insight.

Enjoyed the monologue.

This is precisely what i have been thinking for ages.

How do.we constantly come of second best. The last six years of recruitment has been embarrassing.

JAC, TPJ in recent times. These should both be here.

I know what the common thing is!
 
@balmain-boy said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473419) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473398) said:
@kingrobbie said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473395) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

Sounds like you’re getting a bit personal to me.

I hope he didn’t hurt your daddy’s Justin and Lee’s feelings too much.

All good, we all have opinions.

Lets get out of the realm of opinions and deal in facts.

Why should the club listen to this guy? Has he used his "big business" skills to help the club? is he a sponsor? Has he demonstrated professionalism by keeping discussions discrete? Why should the club listen to or deal with this guy?

What no one is recognising is that this guy has just demonstrated why the club did the right thing not dealing with him. By going on a public podcast and airing his version of the clubs "dirty laundry" he has proven himself as exactly the wrong bloke for the club to deal with.

Pascoe and Tigers Mgt may have made some mistakes, but not dealing with this guy is not one of them.

The guy probably went public with his comments because he was fed up with the club going round in circles, making the same mistakes over and over again. Just like we all are. Maybe he felt he could instigate some change, change which is very necessary (lack of results).

It's hard to argue against most of his statements. Our club's management has been bullied by clubs for a long time. Other clubs don't take us seriously, other players don't take our club seriously. We're a bit of a joke.

We give up prized assets (Moses, Matterson, Paseka etc) to our rivals for free. We don't play hard ball, we don't force a solution in our favour, even when we get cash (Cleary, Aloiai) it's a nominal amount which doesn't provide adequate compensation for the imbalance the departures cause.

We have no plan, no drawcard, no identity. We have no accountability. Failure is repeteadly tolerated. Who does the board report to?

He does go off on a bit of a fan-based tangent here and there but for the most part he showcases the faults of our management, which are the root cause of our failures on the pitch.

In my opinion Pascoe is not suited to CEO. Maybe a CCO, COO, but he doesn't have the necessary traits to lead a rugby league club.

Wests Tigers are currently doing a review while Ciraldo makes up his mind. Maybe offer your opinion to the club, feels like they need it.
 
@twentyforty said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473432) said:
@needaname said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473388) said:
@twentyforty said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473373) said:
@needaname said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473349) said:
@tigerbalm said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473330) said:
Happy to see this thread. Great listen. It really just highlighted the fears that I had about Pascoe and the organisation in general. The guy has to go.

It’s not Pascoe in isolation, he is competent in his role. It’s the management structure in general and the lack of focus and attention in regard to what i would call the ‘football operations’ department.

Our management has identified a gap. Hence the appointment of Sheens.

But I am concerned that we have asked Sheens to head up this division with no actual structure in place and no plan of how that division should operate.


From what I can understand, there have been a number of new positions created with appointments prior to the Sheens appointment.
I’m still stuck on the way Pascoe publicly introduced Sheens’ appointment. His job description was vague. It sounded like “hey Sheens has agreed to come back, we just need to agree on what his tasks and areas of responsibility are.”
If they knew, they weren’t saying, or they didn’t know? Take your pick? I think they didn’t know and still don’t because now he has a new job title?
It’s hard to know what’s going on ?
The usual practice when developing an organisation is to chart positions with job descriptions according to the needs of its overall objectives. Then you look for people to fill those roles. It may take time to find the right people, but when you do that’s when the magic happens, as those people interact with each other and roles are modified in accordance with consideration to the strengths of each person.
I realise many organisations have opted to find people first , then find a job for them, but taking that literally is hit and miss and takes too long imo.

We are quite literally 10years behind the Panthers.
Gus even said we won’t see the benefit of this till 2030. I don’t know Sheens personally nor Gus but I am asking to the forum if anyone does because as stated above the club has decided to get Sheens back to the club just to be involved. Become a mr football if you like and solve all the problems.

Is anyone confident that Sheens has equal experience to do this, just as Penrith did in 2011 when Gus was appointed as General Manager of Football. There was no title of that nature before that. Now a lot of clubs have jumped on board and appointed similar people in a similar role, us included. But this was also Hartigans position and despite his supporters I don’t see enough in his resume to confirm he was the person we needed to appoint for such an ‘encompassing’ role.

It’s been said many times that we have players who are just happy to play nrl, be known as an nrl player, that’s their apex destination.
What if our decision makers are of the same mindset?
What if our CEO, Chair, fellow board members share that mindset ? It makes sense to me that culture is driven from the top down and as such changing 2 or 3 players, a coach is not going to fix the problem. When the coach moves on we are left with the culture driven decisions.
We don’t need any more proof of this.
We turn good players into ordinary ones.
We can’t hang onto our home bred talent who become champions at other clubs.
How many of our decent players have left angry with us?
I know it’s a nice cliche, one man can make a difference, but when he’s up against the odds?
Sheens didn’t survive last time he tried to change things?

I guess you could use Maguire in that same example and I’d even extend the scenario out to Bennett; who has been quite public in his thoughts regarding successful teams and successful organisations.

It’s often argued Madge didn’t change Souths it was the injection of Russell and Holmes a court Richardson and the influence of Sattler, Piggins etc, not to mention a few handy players.

On that assessment alone you look at the two clubs and can see for yourself. Since Russell and Holmes a court and Shane Richardson have been involved with the reshaping of the South Sydney football organisation as a whole.
The Rabbitohs have made the finals under 4 of the 5 coaches that have been appointed since 2007.
 
@tiger5150 said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473376) said:
Sounds like the rantings of a blow hard who has his nose out of joint that the club doesnt take him seriously. Self important big time business man riding his daddy's coat tails. Talks a lot about how he is a "professional business man" and then goes on to air dirty laundry publicly. I deal with actual self made businessmen regularly and they dont air their dealings out like this. Totally unprofessional.

Everyone here is raving about this podcast because of confirmation bias. It reinforces their opinion of the club so lets put this guy on a pedestal. He talks all about what a successful business he has and how close he is to the club .........but never sponsored the club? He wants the club to listen to him.....why?

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/scomos-mates-mate-and-the-billion-dollar-privatisation-of-australias-visa-system/

He was invited on to give his opinions on what he thought were major problems at the club. He kindly did. Having introduced himself, he gave many opinions, including how in his opinion, we could have negotiated player contracts better. Most importantly, it highlights the lack of rugby league IQ at front office. They’re his opinions from his own personal dealings with Mayer & Pascoe. As are my opinions of dealing with Pascoe.

Adrian confirmed many times that Pascoe had been a total gentleman in their dealings. And that they are trying their best. Unfortunately, their best isn’t good enough. We all deserve better. Adrian highlights our clubs’ deficiencies & that rubbed you up the wrong way. You don’t have to agree. Pascoe needs to be called out. He’s the constant in an absolute shit show that is the club we bleed for! Furthermore, Pascoe will tell you when something is confidential and something isn’t. Nothing said on Westslife Podcast was confidential. Why would anyone put their money into a club if that person doesn’t trust the management to be capable enough? You’re entitled to your opinion as are the 95% of people that listened to Adrian & support most of his views
 
@pablox said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473248) said:
@momo_amp_medo said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473228) said:
@pablox said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473104) said:
How do we replace Justin with Adrian?

You’re kidding.
All I heard on there …. Justin is a really nice bloke …. But.
Yea things could be done so much better.
Ugh! Crap from a big noting property developer.

Justin's lack of paranoia and negotiation skills concern me...

Some argue that cool heads make better decisions. Sometimes paranoia makes you jump at shadows and do things that weren’t required or rise. Matter of opinion and no doubt there’s a time and place for both
 
@gcfan said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473481) said:
@pablox said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473248) said:
@momo_amp_medo said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473228) said:
@pablox said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473104) said:
How do we replace Justin with Adrian?

You’re kidding.
All I heard on there …. Justin is a really nice bloke …. But.
Yea things could be done so much better.
Ugh! Crap from a big noting property developer.

Justin's lack of paranoia and negotiation skills concern me...

Some argue that cool heads make better decisions. Sometimes paranoia makes you jump at shadows and do things that weren’t required or rise. Matter of opinion and no doubt there’s a time and place for both

That was a reference to the westlife podcast.

Edit. Give it a listen if you haven't already
 
To see that this guy drew an analogy that prisoners were unimportant in reviewing prison performance lost me completely, so cannot comment further.
 
@formerguest said in [Inside look into Tigers Management/Negotiations](/post/1473491) said:
To see that this guy drew an analogy that prisoners were unimportant in reviewing prison performance lost me completely, so cannot comment further.

Really? It was a light-hearted analogy. Relax
 
Listened to the podcast and thoroughly enjoyed it.
To me he raised some good points and said some stuff I wasn’t aware of.
Left me feeing worse about the club in general tbh but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

By his own admission he doesn’t know the ins and outs of the club or how it runs.
In saying that i really enjoyed his passion.

He did lose me somewat when he was talking about throwing big money at big name players.
Um.... that’s part of why we are in this mess.

Reynolds, Packer, Matulino etc were all recruited on big money and didn’t work out.
So why should be throw big overs on more players? I think he’s incorrect in all of that
 
Back
Top