It is time for SHEENS to go.

[tiger4ever]

tiger4ever,

I am saying we have made the semis less than any other team that has contested since we entered the comp. Finishing our standard 9th place is not successful.

Top 4 is successful.

OK SO PARRA IN 09 running 8th 1 point ahead of us and making the grand final wasnt succesful

have we run anywhere near last.

So if we finish 4th and get and get knocked out the first week and that has happened would you call that a successful season…..please you would have a big sook over it i know you would.

We play home games at 3 different grounds that is a disadvantge to us but we have to do it to survive the long term.The strange selections sheens sometime may make im sure there is a perfect reason for him doing it and only people within the club would know.Do you ever see any players oor ADMIN LEAVE THE CLUB AND WHINGE ABOUT SHEENS....I HAVENT HEARD ANYTHING.Every player that plays under sheens has nothing but praise for him saying hes one of the best coaches they have played under.

Sheens has never coached a team that has money coming out of their behinds or a whole state of juniors to pick from he has had to scrounge around and build a team from scratch.Bennetts broncos teams were so far over the cap from 90 until they started to really clamp down on it from the time the bulldogs got caught.

So percentages dont mean much you have to compare apples with apples.

How many times has souths made the semis and you mention panthers they have had 2 wooden spoons in between and nqld and knights.

How about wait and see how it goes this year and if we make the semis then its 2 in a row

 

[angeman]

very interesting debate. if sheens was to move on i'd like to see folkes promoted:

here's a quick snapshot of what i posted in the contracts thread for discussion…

FOR
- players seem to love him
- won us a premiership and got us to the semi last year
- australian coach
- one of the few vastly experienced coaches out there
- the dark ages: the coaches that came before him, e.g terry lamb
- attractive style of footy

AGAINST
- 2 finals series in last 15 years of coaching
- perhaps becoming stale and therefore time for a change
- stubborn with selecting certain players (fitzy) and out of position (morris, moltzen, harrison, etc)
- some non-obvious choices exist, Steve Folkes being one of them already on our staff
- too powerful (bad thing?) - can overthrow CEOs, untouchable by the media?
- defence hardly seems to improve on a consistent basis

my beef is mostly around the defence being pretty average year-on-year but also from one game to the next. the kicking game (especially long, apart from Prince) has also been a struggle.

its been said a few times - and rightly so - why does he refuse to select players out of position for australia AND select 2 props on the bench but won't for the Tigers. frustrating...

but i do hate thinking back of the terry lamb, alan jones, wayne pearce coaching days. its a tough one...

 

[Flippedy]

**Don't you guys remember the rabble that was Wests Tigers pre Sheens. We were like a friggin bikie gang with footy boots.
The bloke has built discipline into the club. A club we are all proud of today.**We've got an injury list longer than Bugs face and hey, we're actually in the eight.

I'd also love to know the bricks and motar of the alleged stats - Souths were missing for a few years, Titans are new so we've won more games than either of them (as opposed the glass half empty way of looking at losses) - Nth Qld ???. And how can Sheens be hung on the years before he arrived … what are the overall stats in the Sheens @ Wests era ?????? (remembering he started from below scratch - with a rabble)

There is no doubting the good stuff that Sheens has brought to the club, Snoddy. We were a mess before he arrived for sure, and we have now become a club, primarily off the field, that we can all be proud of, as you say. However, on the field, we have become mediocre - not bad, a la Cronulla in recent years, just mediocre.

Tim's tenure at the club, as far as performance on the field goes, has become stale - even allowing for last year's great end to the season. A consistently high performing team would have continued on from last year's good form and run with it into the new season. I know we have heaps of injuries, atm, but the signs of mediocrity creeping back into the team were already there before any of the major injuries occured, during the pre-season and in the early rounds.

Like Bug, I have had enough of mediocrity and inconsistency on the field. There are a lot of other teams in the comp that are in the same boat - Penrith, the Warriors and Parramatta to name a few, but I don't want my team to be like them. Teams such as Brisbane, Melbourne, St George and to a lesser extent, Canterbury, do not accept mediocrity in their on-field performances. When they do string a few bad games together, they address the problems immediately, that is why they are successful, year in and year out, even when they have had some significant losses of personnel. That is how I would expect my team to perform, especially with the roster we have.

All that said, I will always support the Tigers, through thick and thin. I'm just saying that a breath of fresh air, in the coaching dept, might well be the thing needed to take us out of our mediocrity and into a more consistently, higher level of on-field performance.

 

[angeman]

would be interesting to see a poll - should we re-sign sheens or let him go. if you asked me a few years ago i'd say you're crazy (again thinking of coach terry lamb and holding back the vomit) now though, i think i'd lean towards letting him go… we need a fresh approach.

 

[Golden]

Chalky,

Your winning percentage stats are a joke. Pre 1996 is ancient history mate. d*** Johnson once won the Australian touring car championship, should he be hired to drive today?

How are these stats of all the worst performing teams that have been in the comp since 2000, the amount of times they have made the semis;
Canberra - 7 times !!!!!
Nth QLD - 3 times !!
Warriors - 6 times !!!
Penrith - 4 times !!!

Wests tigers have made the semis on least occasions than ANY other team in the NRL.

Take that stat home buddy

They are not my stats BUDDY, as i put on my post i got them from the NZ herald website. I didnt realise i was suppose to filter them so that they showed winning percentages of coaches when the wind was blowing from the east, the games were played at 5.30 on a Saturday and the ref of the game had a double barrell name. Sorry BUDDY, my mistake.
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Interesting stat is of your list of teams who have made the semis more than us, only Penrith have actually won the comp. I wonder if Raiders supporters would swap their 7 failed visits to the finals for an actual premiership.

s*** one point away from the big one last year wasnt a bad effort.

Carn the Tigers, carn Sir Sheens, in you we trust!

Wests tigers will probably never win another premiership so dont ever forget what he acheived with us on his 3rd year.

06- 9th 1win in the last 3 and the players couldnt manage it.
07- 9th missed out by for and against great effort considering the massive injury toll we had
08- 10th Lost a few key players like benji and robbie for long periods.
09- 9th missed out by 1 point
10- 3rd Very good season and if we didnt get rorted against the roosters we would have made the grand final as we wouldnt of had to play raiders at canberra and dragons to qualify.

I dont see how you could say we have been unsuccesful.

exuse me 9th in 06?? we finished 11th!

 

[tiger4ever]

Yes we did to excuse me.

 

[Golden]

Heres how I see it with Sheens

03 crap year but he was fixing up the mess Lamb left behind thats when we got stars like Benji and Farah coming up
04- finished 9th we were robbed in so many games this year thanks to the refs, we blew it near the end to make the 8 was a good year when you consider 50-0 and 56-0 games
05 take out the 3 good months we had we finish about 10th but everyone knows its our magic year
06 CRAP year injuries didn't help and it didn't help when we had a coach puting useless guys like Fitzy and Lolesi at 5/8 and we choked games against newcastle manly panthers etc, from stupid kicks at the end of the game and the raiders in golden point twice
07 this was the Farah show this year if you look at the ladder it was the worst year in the NRL so many crap teams it had the cowgirls in the top 4 with -71 F and A!!! the warriors finished 4th with a 13 and 10 record for god sake!, we lost our first 4 games that we should have won (choked like we do now) then won 6 in a row, once again lost to many close games.
08 this was a average year
09 once again lost to many close games
10 good year we won some of those close games but still lost to many near the end to roosters dragons souths (almost blew the raiders and eels games)

notice how I say we lose so many close games? the coach has to be in question here.

 

[tiger4ever]

yeah noticed whats that got to do with the coach.Id say its braindead plays by senior players that cost us close games and missing every 2nd goal kicking out on the full dropping balls on early tackles giving penalties away at crucial times injuires to our key players oh .Yeah id blame the coach for that…...
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Anyway hes going to sign so build a bridge. :slight_smile:

 

[Golden]

you think its not the coach? did you see how the dragons became a boring team with most of the same players when they got a new coach?

we maybe an exciting team to watch and looks great, but they are not a winning team.

 

[851]

I am with Bug,he is costing us games with ridiculious team and bench selections,making our injury toll even worse than it is,with better team and bench selection and a decent game plan we would have another 1 maybe 2 wins and sitting pretty.

 

[barrytiger]

Sorry, It's reads worse than it was intended. No what i am saying is that, He is being outmuscled every week by hulking, fast polynesian wingers week after week… It is far from racism to openly admit that Anglo Saxon athletes are by far less superior over the history of ALL SPORT!! These days, There are the Folaus, Vidots, Vatuvais, Tuiakis, of the game is where it is headed.
It's not 1985 anymore!! Slow and Small understrength guys don't have the impact on the edges

i disagree how many polynesians have stgeorge /illawarra

 

[ozcrusader]

I have been thinking Sheens should go for a while, but there is no doubt we performed well last year and came very close to making the GF.

Sheens is very frustrating with his weird bench selections and continual playing people out of position - but there are frustrations with every coach and we will have these no matter who we hire.

Personally I think it's tough to judge him on the team's performance this year because of all the injuries. I felt we were really starting to hit our stride and then lost both Lawrence and Tuquiri. These two guys are Origin level players - all class. You can't lose both and expect no downturn in performance - especially in attack. So much of our attack actually involves one or both those guys finishing our plays.

When you chuck losing our halfback into the mix, plus our most consistent forward in Ellis…well, it's no wonder we're struggling. I think as we get players back we'll hit our stride in time to make the 8\. Once we're there, anything is possible.

So basically - if we don't get to the 8 this year, I agree Sheens should go. But not right now, let's wait and see.

 

[cunno]

Having watched Sheens play first grade rugby league and later play in the CRL I would definitely not label him a coward.
As for his coaching much has been said in this thread with some good points being made for and against. IMO injuries have been a significant influence on our results thus far in 2011\. Of the current top teams I am not aware of any who have been hit by injuries like we have over such a short period. This must impact on morale, plays, tactics, cohesion, fitness of those returning to keep up in games and so on. Let's not forget how high the NRL standard is (compare to ESL) it's a tough comp, in many ways its a close comp and any weakness puts a team at a big disadvantage. It is not my purpose to convince people one way or the other as many appear to have made up their mind on our coach. I would like to see how he goes once most or all of our players are back and have a bit of match fitness and cohesion going before writing him off IMO he deserves the same loyalty he has shown the club.

 

[underdog]

Sorry, It's reads worse than it was intended. No what i am saying is that, He is being outmuscled every week by hulking, fast polynesian wingers week after week… It is far from racism to openly admit that Anglo Saxon athletes are by far less superior over the history of ALL SPORT!! These days, There are the Folaus, Vidots, Vatuvais, Tuiakis, of the game is where it is headed.
It's not 1985 anymore!! Slow and Small understrength guys don't have the impact on the edges

i disagree how many polynesians have stgeorge /illawarra

x2

Erm.. Batboy, just quietly… Steve Turner, Jason Nightingale, Brett Morris, Josh Morris, Dale Copley, Michael Litt, Michael Gordon, Steve Michaels, David Mead, Matthew Wright, Ashley Graham, and The Wolfman all might disagree with you there ...
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and BTW isn't Utai polynesian?

erm.. on that matter... Isn't Tuiqiri Fijian?

:roll :roll
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and besides, your list is invalid, since Vidot even if he is polynesian, sucks badly.

 

[angry_ant]

+1 for the Time to go Sheens.

I feel this club is craving a new start, fresh ideas. I am sick to death whenever someone brings up pre 2003 and how bad we were pre 2003, that was 8 years ago and plays no part in whether he stays or not. Do I think a guy who gets 1 Grand Final win in a 7 year period and not much else a license to coach this club for life???

This club needs to take the next step to be a succesful venture and turn this organisation into a powerhouse. I believe and hope that one day the management will take this step and move forward and not stay the same 42-50% winning percentage path every single year.

Why cant we be as succesful as Brisbane Broncos one day?? Change is needed in all walks of life, stop taking the easy option and blaming players, weather, injuries which every other team also faces but in some cases manages a lot better. Lets start at the root of the problem Tim Sheens and his coaching staff.

Maybe also invest in a training centre too, rehabiliation centre or something which is going to lower our injury toll which seems to occur every year!!

 

[happy_tiger]

Lets give him until the end of the season and become judge,jury and executioner then . Well we will leave the executioner role to Bug . He will enjoy that no doubt

 

[glebe_tiger]

+1 for the Time to go Sheens.

I feel this club is craving a new start, fresh ideas. I am sick to death whenever someone brings up pre 2003 and how bad we were pre 2003, that was 8 years ago and plays no part in whether he stays or not. Do I think a guy who gets 1 Grand Final win in a 7 year period and not much else a license to coach this club for life???

This club needs to take the next step to be a succesful venture and turn this organisation into a powerhouse. I believe and hope that one day the management will take this step and move forward and not stay the same 42-50% winning percentage path every single year.

Why cant we be as succesful as Brisbane Broncos one day?? Change is needed in all walks of life, stop taking the easy option and blaming players, weather, injuries which every other team also faces but in some cases manages a lot better. Lets start at the root of the problem Tim Sheens and his coaching staff.

Maybe also invest in a training centre too, rehabiliation centre or something which is going to lower our injury toll which seems to occur every year!!

we will never be a mirror of the broncos mainly because we dont rort the salary cap enough and we dont have a quarter of brisbanes nearly whole footy mad state as a pool for junior players to pick from.

as for the training centre and facilities, every club could do with something like that, like the titans centre of excellence. but theyre abig money club and are involved in salary rorts also look at the issue with prince couple of seasons ago. maybe we should get harry to build us one, he has enough money, not sure of what the build quality will be like though.

 

[tiger4ever]

Harry may build us one you never know if he wants to help us more that would be a good start.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

The land around Campbelltown Stadium is begging for a Rugby League development centre.

Peter Gentle or Leo would be good coaches if Folkes was to move on.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I am sick to death whenever someone brings up pre 2003 and how bad we were pre 2003, that was 8 years ago and plays no part in whether he stays or not. Do I think a guy who gets 1 Grand Final win in a 7 year period and not much else a license to coach this club for life???

THIS. The same old tired argument that is trotted out everytime.

I have wanted a fresh change since that disgusting capitulation in the last round against Newcastle in 2007.

Aside from a good run last year, nothing I've seen since has made me change my mind.