Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

What are the defamatory comments you refer to?
I didn’t mention anything that is not already known - just expressing in my own poetic way.
 
@ said:
What sort of forum is this? Deleting emails if they don’t suit you, I’ll call it the way I see it thanks.
Click to expand...

It's a regulated one. Go post your rants on League Unlimited if you can't handle it, anything goes there…
 
@ said:
What are the defamatory comments you refer to?
I didn’t mention anything that is not already known - just expressing in my own poetic way.
Click to expand...

There's nothing poetic about your posts, and I'd heed Nelson's advice if you don't like it here.
 
@ said:
@ said:
Yet you conveniently kept all the posts before mine. Did people get offended that I called them out for not getting my sarcastic responses.

So you want to protect your friends from looking stupid yet happy to keep all the comments about me up without allowing me a right to reply. Good to see the boys club alive and well.

I didnt think you did much wrong.

One of the few on here not afraid to have an unpopular opinion, it draws a lot of attention.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the support. You call it as it is and people get ruffled.
 
@ said:
@ said:
Yet you conveniently kept all the posts before mine. Did people get offended that I called them out for not getting my sarcastic responses.

So you want to protect your friends from looking stupid yet happy to keep all the comments about me up without allowing me a right to reply. Good to see the boys club alive and well.

I’ve been reading through your posts and God damn it I like your style. Yes you can only say so much on here before certain people just don’t agree with you and then your profile gets banned. I made comments about Chris Lawrence years ago when he sucked hoping his contract wouldn’t be renewed.

Is this a forum or not? We are debating issues and people get a bit passionate.

Much like the NRL the refs need to stop calling so many penalties.

Let’s see if that shut down my account following this….
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That’s the whole point of a forum, different opinions make a forum. As long as it’s policed fairly with no double standards then I’m happy to get pulled up when I step out of line.
 
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
I’d be very surprised if Cleary is not released by November. I think it’s more than likely Our management was out manoeuvred by Penrith. I hope he stays but it’s unlikely in my view. It’s probably all denial stuff until the season finishes.

Unfortunately I agree with you on this as it would of been put to bed properly by actually talking to the media.

My main concern is that this happens after season and we miss out on a good coach and have to start all over again..

My Choice would be Michael M or Wayne Bennett (Only if Ivan leaves )

The problem with your interpretation is that when people in the public eye make categorical, unambiguous statements such as: (a) “I have not received any offer from the Panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”; and “…. I intend to honour this contract”, I’m inclined to believe them.

The reason is that smart people don’t tell deliberate lies if there is a chance they will be caught out. They certainly don’t tell barefaced lies, which the above statements would prove to be, if he intended to take up a coaching position with the Panthers in 2019.

If Cleary intended to take up a contract with Penrith in 2019 he would not have been so unequivocal in his statement.

He has to deny any contract has been offered otherwise he would be in court with Gus. He also has to state he will see out his contract he is legally obliged to fulfil it.
This is where it gets murky if he is leaving likely at the end of his deal and has told Pascoe this it’s untenable and he will be released. Oldest trick in the book it will come out as mutual agreement. If Maquire is available I’d waste no time and get it done.
West’s have the cash Cleary can coach the Magpies.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
Unfortunately I agree with you on this as it would of been put to bed properly by actually talking to the media.

My main concern is that this happens after season and we miss out on a good coach and have to start all over again..

My Choice would be Michael M or Wayne Bennett (Only if Ivan leaves )

The problem with your interpretation is that when people in the public eye make categorical, unambiguous statements such as: (a) “I have not received any offer from the Panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”; and “…. I intend to honour this contract”, I’m inclined to believe them.

The reason is that smart people don’t tell deliberate lies if there is a chance they will be caught out. They certainly don’t tell barefaced lies, which the above statements would prove to be, if he intended to take up a coaching position with the Panthers in 2019.

If Cleary intended to take up a contract with Penrith in 2019 he would not have been so unequivocal in his statement.

He has to deny any contract has been offered otherwise he would be in court with Gus. He also has to state he will see out his contract he is legally obliged to fulfil it.
This is where it gets murky if he is leaving likely at the end of his deal and has told Pascoe this it’s untenable and he will be released. Oldest trick in the book it will come out as mutual agreement. If Maquire is available I’d waste no time and get it done.
West’s have the cash Cleary can coach the Magpies.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It will be a long time before you see Any NRL club in a court action with any player, too many skeletons in their cupboard, they would avoid that at all costs.Any threats of serious Court action,
Would be just that, Threats.
 
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
The problem with your interpretation is that when people in the public eye make categorical, unambiguous statements such as: (a) “I have not received any offer from the Panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”; and “…. I intend to honour this contract”, I’m inclined to believe them.

The reason is that smart people don’t tell deliberate lies if there is a chance they will be caught out. They certainly don’t tell barefaced lies, which the above statements would prove to be, if he intended to take up a coaching position with the Panthers in 2019.

If Cleary intended to take up a contract with Penrith in 2019 he would not have been so unequivocal in his statement.

He has to deny any contract has been offered otherwise he would be in court with Gus. He also has to state he will see out his contract he is legally obliged to fulfil it.
This is where it gets murky if he is leaving likely at the end of his deal and has told Pascoe this it’s untenable and he will be released. Oldest trick in the book it will come out as mutual agreement. If Maquire is available I’d waste no time and get it done.
West’s have the cash Cleary can coach the Magpies.

It will be a long time before you see Any NRL club in a court action with any player, too many skeletons in their cupboard, they would avoid that at all costs.Any threats of serious Court action,
Would be just that, Threats.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

General discovery would likely be enough to put them off, let alone a subpoena or two.
 
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
@ said:
The problem with your interpretation is that when people in the public eye make categorical, unambiguous statements such as: (a) “I have not received any offer from the Panthers, nor have I asked the Wests Tigers for a release”; and “…. I intend to honour this contract”, I’m inclined to believe them.

The reason is that smart people don’t tell deliberate lies if there is a chance they will be caught out. They certainly don’t tell barefaced lies, which the above statements would prove to be, if he intended to take up a coaching position with the Panthers in 2019.

If Cleary intended to take up a contract with Penrith in 2019 he would not have been so unequivocal in his statement.

He has to deny any contract has been offered otherwise he would be in court with Gus. He also has to state he will see out his contract he is legally obliged to fulfil it.
This is where it gets murky if he is leaving likely at the end of his deal and has told Pascoe this it’s untenable and he will be released. Oldest trick in the book it will come out as mutual agreement. If Maquire is available I’d waste no time and get it done.
West’s have the cash Cleary can coach the Magpies.

Fair enough Tyga. My point remains that smart people don't normally tell bare-faced lies in public. They choose their words carefully.

Cleary didn't have to deny a contract had been offered and he didn't have to state his intention to honour his contract.

Take Seibold for example - he started his presser last night saying he wanted to make a statement about the coaching position. He expressed disappointment at the false news in the press; said he would not take any questions on the subject; and then said "I am contracted to the Rabbihos for the next 15 months". End of story.

Cleary could have done the same thing. Seibold's statement won't put the matter to bed; but then, Ivan's more fulsome statement hasn't either. So, rather than lie, Cleary could have done a Seibold.

Good to see that you are open to listening to opinions. I now suggest that you look to the words of your first two paragraphs above, along with your previous "unequivocal" description of his statement.

The statement was worded very carefully, so Ivan could not be accused of lying. For instance, I will, rather than, "I intend" is a definitive line. More telling is the "not received" term in relation to a contract, which leaves as much wriggle room as Steve Waugh would for a cutter outside off stump. He never denied an offer, nor that he had agreed to one for that matter, because he did not address the issue. Words to the effect of 'did not even discuss me going there in the next couple of years, let alone terms' are an unequivocal denial.

Ivan almost certainly doesn't want to front any pointed questions from the media that require a direct yes or no answer, as he doesn't have the ability of a politician to avoid answering.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I must confess FG that I find your arguments unconvincing.

Ivan said "“I have not received any offer from the Panthers…", to which you say: "He never denied an offer....". It sounds like a denial to me.

Moreover the "any offer" suggests to me that he has not received an offer either orally or in writing and that he has not received an offer to coach now or any time in the future. That sounds pretty unequivocal.

I'm quite happy with Ivan saying: "I intend to honour this contract”, rather than "I will". I think that It is quite appropriate to talk of our intentions in regard to future acts when we do not have complete control over their completion. For example, if the Board loses confidence in Ivan then his contract may be terminated early.

The fact that Ivan does not want to answer pointed questions from the media is entirely reasonable. He has had a personal and confidential conversation with his mate from Penrith and, because the content is confidential, he is not prepared to divulge the details. That's fair enough, besides, it would be a major distraction, that neither he, nor the Tigers can afford.

Finally, my point remains, he didn't need to go as far as he did in his statement. He could have taken the Seibold approach and essentially said nothing. For mine, Siebold's "statement" raises many more questions than Ivan's.
 
Can't see what the drama is.

Cleary said he will honour his contract. He is an honourable man.

So if he leaves for somewhere else for the 2021 season, he is within his rights to do that - whether he goes to the Pamfirrs or the Gulargambone jets is his business.

We would sign a new coach for the 2021 season - i would think the club would be in an excellent position at that stage.

Never thought Nathan would come to the Tigers for his next contract anyway. I still think Ivan will stay on after this contract expires - he will not play under "The Fibber" imo.
 
Oh dear! There’s a fluff piece on the Tigers web site about Matalino. It goes to some length to reassure us that if Ivan was to go to Penrith, matalino would see out his contract.

As I said in an earlier post, I am hanging on to the belief Ivan is a man of his word but everything else is pointing to an early exit.
 
@ said:
Oh dear! There’s a fluff piece on the Tigers web site about Matalino. It goes to some length to reassure us that if Ivan was to go to Penrith, matalino would see out his contract.

As I said in an earlier post, I am hanging on to the belief Ivan is a man of his word but everything else is pointing to an early exit.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree, I haven’t had a go at Ivan or his intentions, I like Cleary, he was a blessing after our last coach.
But Ivan has sat through some horrible performances by us, seen some dead set diabolical officiating against us and never looked flustered.
But his press statement was nothing like what we know of Ivan, or expect of him.
I really want him for the long haul, but I just don’t think it will work out like that.
Maybe nothing fazes Ivan when he is being 100% honest, and that wasn’t the case last Saturday, I don’t know.
I still won’t bag the bloke but there are these stories from all around the place that says he is off the bus at the next stop.
I just hope Pascoe has a plan if this is indeed going to happen, we have made a stack of progress this year, we need to keep it going.
 
@ said:
@ said:
Oh dear! There’s a fluff piece on the Tigers web site about Matalino. It goes to some length to reassure us that if Ivan was to go to Penrith, matalino would see out his contract.

As I said in an earlier post, I am hanging on to the belief Ivan is a man of his word but everything else is pointing to an early exit.

I tend to agree, I haven’t had a go at Ivan or his intentions, I like Cleary, he was a blessing after our last coach.
But Ivan has sat through some horrible performances by us, seen some dead set diabolical officiating against us and never looked flustered.
But his press statement was nothing like what we know of Ivan, or expect of him.
I really want him for the long haul, but I just don’t think it will work out like that.
Maybe nothing fazes Ivan when he is being 100% honest, and that wasn’t the case last Saturday, I don’t know.
I still won’t bag the bloke but there are these stories from all around the place that says he is off the bus at the next stop.
I just hope Pascoe has a plan if this is indeed going to happen, we have made a stack of progress this year, we need to keep it going.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I can certainly agree with you on this coaching issue and even your first sentence.

I have not attacked him either and will have no major problem as a result of this past month or so if he stays on to see out his contract, or takes off over the summer, but following a half arsed denial and commitment statement, anyone adopting a three monkeys approach to the situation just does not cut it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Members online

Total: 590 (members: 8, guests: 582)
Back
Top