Jacob Liddle #198

@Tiger Come Lately said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
I look forward to watching him play next year.

I hope we don't coach the creative ability around the ruck out of him and expect him to be a ball scoop.

That's what JT wants as a Hooker!!…. or is it as a hooker/ backrower ...or as a winger/ hooker..... or maybe as a half/ Hooker (a la Littlejohn).....?

I hope not, I would like to think that was just a ploy to push RF out of the team.

It makes no sense IMO to just pass the ball out of dummy half. It takes precious time away from your halves and allows the opposition defence to shift in unison.

A playmaking 9 will always have the defence in two minds and your more of a chance of creating a gap for your halves to play at if the defence is in two minds.

Other wise just get rid of your hooker and play another prop or second rower in there that can help bash the opposition into submission, but before you can do that you must have a big pack to start with and we don't have that. We have a skill full young 9 so he has to have the team play to player strengths.

It is my opinion that JT was not installing a game plan to limit the attack from the hooker, but rather to specifically curtail Farah's default attack pattern, which was becoming blunted.

Cherrington did not lack for attacking ability, in fact that's mostly what he had, but once you decide that Cherrington cannot handle the defensive load of firsts, and you can't select Liddle due to 2nd tier cap, you are left with makeshift options like Halatau. In that scenario, you want a Halatau option to just tackle and pass, and let the young halves do the singing.

But back to Farah, his left-foot grubber was still a good option at the line, as was his tactical kick and chase, though he had a slightly bad habit of doing it closer to tackle 3 or 4 at times. Whilst I am not against the concept of early kick and chase, Tigers are not currently the kind of defensive unit to give up possession and hope to bury the opposition in their own 25.

Robbie's running game was deteriorating in 2016 - his run selection was still good, but he just lacked that turn of foot he used to have, and he isn't strong enough to make barraging runs of the Isaac Luke type. I also felt that the refs went really soft on squareness of markers all season which hurt ruck creativity.

In the old days Farah was terrific at picking when to run and when to pass, and he would always engage offside markers, but regularly did not get the penalties he deserved. He probably got 50% of the penalties that should have been blown all career. In 2016 that rate fell to next to nothing: the refs were not interested and his slight loss of pace gave the defensive line a fraction more time to get onside.

I feel where Farah really fell down in 2016 was his pass selection, and I think this went a long way to what forced him out. Frankly he held the ball too long and wasn't getting his forwards consistently over the advantage line. Cam Smith holds the footy a lot but he is still really good at either drawing the markers or stepping quickly out from the mark to give his pack some space on the advantage line. Robbie was continually hesitating, looking for attacking opportunities and his forwards were being hurt with the delay in the pass, as were the backs ultimately. Have a serious think about how easily you can picture in your memory, Farah picking up the footy, hesitating with the pass, having his forward over-run him and being swarmed by the markers, tucking the ball under his left arm and raising his right arm over his head to push off the attackers. It was a regular site and hookers should not be regularly getting caught like that.

I guarantee Rd 1 next year if Farah plays, we will be getting up fast on him and crowding the ruck.

Liddle, well he is halfback-quick over short distances, tall enough to get his arms free and has a good pass on him. I expect he will be given instruction to test a retreating defensive line but focus on getting the ball away early at the start and end of the tackle count. He needs to put passes out in front of Broses at chest height, there was way too much leaping for catches for the halves last year. If you watch your halves jump for the ball consistently once per set or more, that means the distribution is poor. They need to be running onto it.
 
@jirskyr said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
I look forward to watching him play next year.

I hope we don't coach the creative ability around the ruck out of him and expect him to be a ball scoop.

That's what JT wants as a Hooker!!…. or is it as a hooker/ backrower ...or as a winger/ hooker..... or maybe as a half/ Hooker (a la Littlejohn).....?

I hope not, I would like to think that was just a ploy to push RF out of the team.

It makes no sense IMO to just pass the ball out of dummy half. It takes precious time away from your halves and allows the opposition defence to shift in unison.

A playmaking 9 will always have the defence in two minds and your more of a chance of creating a gap for your halves to play at if the defence is in two minds.

Other wise just get rid of your hooker and play another prop or second rower in there that can help bash the opposition into submission, but before you can do that you must have a big pack to start with and we don't have that. We have a skill full young 9 so he has to have the team play to player strengths.

It is my opinion that JT was not installing a game plan to limit the attack from the hooker, but rather to specifically curtail Farah's default attack pattern, which was becoming blunted.

Cherrington did not lack for attacking ability, in fact that's mostly what he had, but once you decide that Cherrington cannot handle the defensive load of firsts, and you can't select Liddle due to 2nd tier cap, you are left with makeshift options like Halatau. In that scenario, you want a Halatau option to just tackle and pass, and let the young halves do the singing.

But back to Farah, his left-foot grubber was still a good option at the line, as was his tactical kick and chase, though he had a slightly bad habit of doing it closer to tackle 3 or 4 at times. Whilst I am not against the concept of early kick and chase, Tigers are not currently the kind of defensive unit to give up possession and hope to bury the opposition in their own 25.

Robbie's running game was deteriorating in 2016 - his run selection was still good, but he just lacked that turn of foot he used to have, and he isn't strong enough to make barraging runs of the Isaac Luke type. I also felt that the refs went really soft on squareness of markers all season which hurt ruck creativity.

In the old days Farah was terrific at picking when to run and when to pass, and he would always engage offside markers, but regularly did not get the penalties he deserved. He probably got 50% of the penalties that should have been blown all career. In 2016 that rate fell to next to nothing: the refs were not interested and his slight loss of pace gave the defensive line a fraction more time to get onside.

I feel where Farah really fell down in 2016 was his pass selection, and I think this went a long way to what forced him out. Frankly he held the ball too long and wasn't getting his forwards consistently over the advantage line. Cam Smith holds the footy a lot but he is still really good at either drawing the markers or stepping quickly out from the mark to give his pack some space on the advantage line. Robbie was continually hesitating, looking for attacking opportunities and his forwards were being hurt with the delay in the pass, as were the backs ultimately. Have a serious think about how easily you can picture in your memory, Farah picking up the footy, hesitating with the pass, having his forward over-run him and being swarmed by the markers, tucking the ball under his left arm and raising his right arm over his head to push off the attackers. It was a regular site and hookers should not be regularly getting caught like that.

I guarantee Rd 1 next year if Farah plays, we will be getting up fast on him and crowding the ruck.

Liddle, well he is halfback-quick over short distances, tall enough to get his arms free and has a good pass on him. I expect he will be given instruction to test a retreating defensive line but focus on getting the ball away early at the start and end of the tackle count. He needs to put passes out in front of Broses at chest height, there was way too much leaping for catches for the halves last year. If you watch your halves jump for the ball consistently once per set or more, that means the distribution is poor. They need to be running onto it.

Good summary mate. I actually think Robbie's kicking game esp close to the line let us down more than not over the last couple of seasons - he rarely got the ball into the in-goal. Also he & our halves were guilty of kicking early in the tackle count way too often. Like you say, this works well if we have the D to pin a side down in their own 20 & force a mistake but we haven't been able to do that consistently as yet. I still think Robbie has a lot to offer for souths but he needs to be more selective & less predictable - not something we need to worry about anymore.

Really looking forward to seeing Liddle progressing into 1sts though. He seems super keen & has a lot to offer.

73 more sleeps…
 
I think he will prove to be very potent off the bench in the early rounds. As long as our forwards can roll forward, Liddle will shine IMO.
 
I'm excited to see this kid play. The one game he did play last year was the only game of the year i didn't have access to a TV. I like the vibes i'm getting about him.
 
@jirskyr said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
I look forward to watching him play next year.

I hope we don't coach the creative ability around the ruck out of him and expect him to be a ball scoop.

That's what JT wants as a Hooker!!…. or is it as a hooker/ backrower ...or as a winger/ hooker..... or maybe as a half/ Hooker (a la Littlejohn).....?

I hope not, I would like to think that was just a ploy to push RF out of the team.

It makes no sense IMO to just pass the ball out of dummy half. It takes precious time away from your halves and allows the opposition defence to shift in unison.

A playmaking 9 will always have the defence in two minds and your more of a chance of creating a gap for your halves to play at if the defence is in two minds.

Other wise just get rid of your hooker and play another prop or second rower in there that can help bash the opposition into submission, but before you can do that you must have a big pack to start with and we don't have that. We have a skill full young 9 so he has to have the team play to player strengths.

It is my opinion that JT was not installing a game plan to limit the attack from the hooker, but rather to specifically curtail Farah's default attack pattern, which was becoming blunted.

Cherrington did not lack for attacking ability, in fact that's mostly what he had, but once you decide that Cherrington cannot handle the defensive load of firsts, and you can't select Liddle due to 2nd tier cap, you are left with makeshift options like Halatau. In that scenario, you want a Halatau option to just tackle and pass, and let the young halves do the singing.

But back to Farah, his left-foot grubber was still a good option at the line, as was his tactical kick and chase, though he had a slightly bad habit of doing it closer to tackle 3 or 4 at times. Whilst I am not against the concept of early kick and chase, Tigers are not currently the kind of defensive unit to give up possession and hope to bury the opposition in their own 25.

Robbie's running game was deteriorating in 2016 - his run selection was still good, but he just lacked that turn of foot he used to have, and he isn't strong enough to make barraging runs of the Isaac Luke type. I also felt that the refs went really soft on squareness of markers all season which hurt ruck creativity.

In the old days Farah was terrific at picking when to run and when to pass, and he would always engage offside markers, but regularly did not get the penalties he deserved. He probably got 50% of the penalties that should have been blown all career. In 2016 that rate fell to next to nothing: the refs were not interested and his slight loss of pace gave the defensive line a fraction more time to get onside.

I feel where Farah really fell down in 2016 was his pass selection, and I think this went a long way to what forced him out. Frankly he held the ball too long and wasn't getting his forwards consistently over the advantage line. Cam Smith holds the footy a lot but he is still really good at either drawing the markers or stepping quickly out from the mark to give his pack some space on the advantage line. Robbie was continually hesitating, looking for attacking opportunities and his forwards were being hurt with the delay in the pass, as were the backs ultimately. Have a serious think about how easily you can picture in your memory, Farah picking up the footy, hesitating with the pass, having his forward over-run him and being swarmed by the markers, tucking the ball under his left arm and raising his right arm over his head to push off the attackers. It was a regular site and hookers should not be regularly getting caught like that.

I guarantee Rd 1 next year if Farah plays, we will be getting up fast on him and crowding the ruck.

Liddle, well he is halfback-quick over short distances, tall enough to get his arms free and has a good pass on him. I expect he will be given instruction to test a retreating defensive line but focus on getting the ball away early at the start and end of the tackle count. He needs to put passes out in front of Broses at chest height, there was way too much leaping for catches for the halves last year. If you watch your halves jump for the ball consistently once per set or more, that means the distribution is poor. They need to be running onto it.

Yes well summised and good points, my only thought in addition to that is that in 2016 RF was playing not just against the opposition but also against our coach. By that I mean his was asked to play a style that was in contrast to his natural game. He was in two minds on many occassions and subsequently held the ball to long or made a rushed decision.

I am a massive fan of RF for all the right reasons what he achieved while at our club is certainly commendable. But he was badly handled by our club and his own management toward the end which really did show in some aspects of his game and I think your summary of his 2016 performance maybe a reflection of that.

While a lot people critisised his game I thought he was one of the best during the SOS. Just my thoughts.

I think Liddell can emulate that and if as driven as RF could better it as well!

I am super keen to see how he goes with ballin
 
Taylor won't be eliminating the dummy half running. In fact Ballin said as much in his press conference, and said Taylor was encouraging the boys to look for opportunities. The thing Taylor will be looking for is the decision making and timing of when they decide to run. One run instead of a pass to the halves can kill all of your momentum when you have the opposition back peddling, and we were masters of this.
Liddle is very quick and going off his highlights so far in lower grades definitely knows how to engage the marker and chose the right times to run. He will be one of my highlights in 2017.
 
No idea how RF even gets a mention in a thread discussing a young player looking to make his mark with us next season. Not to mention hijacks the thread. Talk about out future gun, not our past one!
 
@Balmain Boy said:
No idea how RF even gets a mention in a thread discussing a young player looking to make his mark with us next season. Not to mention hijacks the thread. Talk about out future gun, not our past one!

Turn it up, why is it unreasonable to discuss the old hooker when evaluating the new one?
 
Especially a bloke that has been our hooker for the past 13 seasons…..he is all some people on here have known as our 9, comparisons and evaluation of Farah and Liddle will be inevitable.
 
@palms said:
Taylor won't be eliminating the dummy half running. In fact Ballin said as much in his press conference, and said Taylor was encouraging the boys to look for opportunities. The thing Taylor will be looking for is the decision making and timing of when they decide to run. One run instead of a pass to the halves can kill all of your momentum when you have the opposition back peddling, and we were masters of this.
Liddle is very quick and going off his highlights so far in lower grades definitely knows how to engage the marker and chose the right times to run. He will be one of my highlights in 2017.

Good points in this post… and as good a hooker Farah was his poor decision making at critical times in matches can be his downfall... e.g. 2011 semi final against the warriors when he and Benji continually took wrong last tackle options; SOO in 2013 (ithink) when Farah kicked cross field into touch on last tackle; last years SOO when Farah decided to go blind side on attack rather than open side and we got tackled into touch killing off a raid.... I believe Farahs poor decision making was what JT was most frustrated about Farahs game
 
Who would be best placed to pair up with Liddle defensively? I'm thinking ET at lock making sure the new kid doesn't get monstered in the middle.
 
@Cosimo_Zaretti said:
Who would be best placed to pair up with Liddle defensively? I'm thinking ET at lock making sure the new kid doesn't get monstered in the middle.

Well Cosimo,that's my main fear at the moment,Liddle the young up and comer with heaps of talent being bashed and battered by seasoned hardheads,this is where we need Ballin,ET and Woods to help and protect him,otherwise it could end up being a short NRL career for the kid….I also understand he is a tough player,I believe he will stand up for himself and give 100% every time he gets on the field,but let's not kid ourselves he will be TARGETED...
 
@Geo. said:
If your hooker is isolated in defence….you're doing it wrong...

It's those situations where the attack wins the wrestle and gets a quick play the ball quicker than both markers can reset, that's where I can see a greenhorn dummy half getting punished. You will get caught by yourself and you've got to hit and stick

A number 13 with a good defensive workrate will minimize these sphincter puckering moments.
 
@Cosimo_Zaretti said:
@Geo. said:
If your hooker is isolated in defence….you're doing it wrong...

It's those situations where the attack wins the wrestle and gets a quick play the ball quicker than both markers can reset, that's where I can see a greenhorn dummy half getting punished. You will get caught by yourself and you've got to hit and stick

A number 13 with a good defensive workrate will minimize these sphincter puckering moments.

That's a concern though. If we need minders for Liddle, Brooks & Moses we'll have more holes in our defence than Swiss cheese!
 
I don't think Liddle needs a minder. That is why he was rated above Cherrington. Liddle does have some size about him and is a very solid defender.
 
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
I look forward to watching him play next year.

I hope we don't coach the creative ability around the ruck out of him and expect him to be a ball scoop.

I hope not, I would like to think that was just a ploy to push RF out of the team.

You think JT would rule out any creativity at dummy half just to get rid of one player? If he didn't want Farah, all he had to do was drop Farah.
 
Who was going to be creative out of dummy half once Farah was dropped? Halatau? Rankin? No one was able to play such a role which is why they would of been instructed to feed the halves.
 
@Cosimo_Zaretti said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
@goldcoast tiger said:
@Tiger Come Lately said:
I look forward to watching him play next year.

I hope we don't coach the creative ability around the ruck out of him and expect him to be a ball scoop.

I hope not, I would like to think that was just a ploy to push RF out of the team.

You think JT would rule out any creativity at dummy half just to get rid of one player? If he didn't want Farah, all he had to do was drop Farah.

Your probably right, but for my mind, with all the previous problems it would have been hard to just drop him. It makes it personal, but if he doesn't fit the structure you want to play then it's not. IMO JT couldn't afford to make it personal.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Back
Top