Jason Taylor ...THREAD...
- Thread starter Sabre
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@Curaeus said:
Good points but I don't agree 100%. Coach bashing is the easy way for fans and media to vent, and coach sacking is the easy way out for a weak board. The hardest part of coaching as stated by many 1st grade coaches is man management. Bellyache couldn't coach us cause he only likes strict structure and I dont think his explosions would be of benefit to a young side. Bennett is probably the best man manager we've ever seen. Brisbane were hopeless under Griffin, should have the title last year and are odds on to win this year with much the same side.
That being said, I think Cleary would be a far better coach for us than Taylor but we can't afford to pay out another coach. I didn't think Taylor was the right fit when he was hired and I still don't. His handling of Farrah alone proves that.
We need some quality forwards. Our backs have a world of talent (though a couple should be taught how to tackle) but need a pack to run behind. Look how well we went in the first two games when the forwards rolled through the middle. I think the salary cap issues are still one of the biggest problems.
Gary_Bakerloo
New member
Not going to pay out another coach whilst there is a transition at ownership and board level.
Regardless, I don't think Taylor should be sacked, but how he reacts to this loss through his team selections will determine how long he stays at Wests.
Regardless, I don't think Taylor should be sacked, but how he reacts to this loss through his team selections will determine how long he stays at Wests.
Oh goody another get rid of the Coach thread …
Byron_Bay_Fan
New member
@TrueTiger said:
But if Jesus Christ had a 17 man roster with the dedication of Russell they could defeat all heaven, hell and earth
Just watching jt in the sheds at half time and he's holding a pen and paper…. Just hope he's writing his resignation letter to the board. Ironically he has milone and lovett sitting right beside him , they may be first to hear the news. I'm no expert in body language but every player shown has resignation showing.
And just in adding it looks like our skipper is on the phone lol
And just in adding it looks like our skipper is on the phone lol
cqtiger
Well-known member
It's a real catch-22 now.
Keep JT and keep these players? bye bye next year.
Sack JT and keep these players? Bye bye next year.
Only a rookie coach or an old hack coach would think of coming here now.
Bennett never goes anywhere unless he can bring in 4 or 5 established players. Nope no chance here. Same goes for Des and Bellamy.
Someone like Cleary would be mad to come here as, like JT, it is "last chance saloon".
These players will pay the price, too. Brooks and Moses' asking price is falling each week. Others are next to no chance of getting a spot anywhere else either. Only Teddy has improved his value.
Keep JT and keep these players? bye bye next year.
Sack JT and keep these players? Bye bye next year.
Only a rookie coach or an old hack coach would think of coming here now.
Bennett never goes anywhere unless he can bring in 4 or 5 established players. Nope no chance here. Same goes for Des and Bellamy.
Someone like Cleary would be mad to come here as, like JT, it is "last chance saloon".
These players will pay the price, too. Brooks and Moses' asking price is falling each week. Others are next to no chance of getting a spot anywhere else either. Only Teddy has improved his value.
Harvey
Well-known member
Bringing together points from a few threads, I am not sure Taylor should be left holding the can for the inept performance.
1\. How much does this club spend on football operations including strength, conditioning and recovery? If they cannot compete at this level they will always struggle.
2\. I have seen suggestions that Payten will be appointed coach, because he is more within the tigers price range. While they may not be able to afford Bennett/Bellamy, if they cannot afford a decent first grade coach, they should sell the licence, move to Perth and drop down to NSW cup.
3\. Taylor's chances of holding the playing group went out the window when he was left hanging and (seemingly) forced to apologise from Farah. This would have come from Pascoe. If Robbie was with another club or playing reserve grade, the players would have more respect for Taylor and I am not sure the side would be that badly impacted.
4\. Milone gets picked because of sponsorship. I would suggest that this is another direction given to Taylor, but by whom? Board, CEO? If there is any truth in this rumour, whoever is responsible should go, or Taylor should just refuse to pick him, get sacked and then take the payout & sell his story.
5\. Taylor was signed on the basis that he would have control over the playing roster. He seems to have been undermined (see 3) and now buckets on board seems to have had that removed.
I believe that he probably has lost the playing group, but this has largely been triggerred by disfunctional management at the club.
1\. How much does this club spend on football operations including strength, conditioning and recovery? If they cannot compete at this level they will always struggle.
2\. I have seen suggestions that Payten will be appointed coach, because he is more within the tigers price range. While they may not be able to afford Bennett/Bellamy, if they cannot afford a decent first grade coach, they should sell the licence, move to Perth and drop down to NSW cup.
3\. Taylor's chances of holding the playing group went out the window when he was left hanging and (seemingly) forced to apologise from Farah. This would have come from Pascoe. If Robbie was with another club or playing reserve grade, the players would have more respect for Taylor and I am not sure the side would be that badly impacted.
4\. Milone gets picked because of sponsorship. I would suggest that this is another direction given to Taylor, but by whom? Board, CEO? If there is any truth in this rumour, whoever is responsible should go, or Taylor should just refuse to pick him, get sacked and then take the payout & sell his story.
5\. Taylor was signed on the basis that he would have control over the playing roster. He seems to have been undermined (see 3) and now buckets on board seems to have had that removed.
I believe that he probably has lost the playing group, but this has largely been triggerred by disfunctional management at the club.
I get how people are angry, disappointed, dispirited, blame everyone and everthing. Vent, rant, rave and call for change and sackings - that is all good.
Don't think people on this Forum need to be called names because they hold a different view. case in point is Moron (twice), Gary was called this, in this thread and it happens may times in other threads - I don't think we need to take this course.
Now I have a few questions:
If we get rid of JT, who do we replace him with? Folks does not want to coach NRL I believe, Payton is a bigger "Rookie" than Taylor was, Toovey lost his management confidence, and so did Cleary. They all come with baggage and is anyone going to make things better in 2016?
If we sack players and drop them to NSW Cup are there better players to replace them? A lot of posters are saying that Lovett and Milone are there because they are JT's pets. I don't know, are they? and Milone was only a replacement for Simona. You are not going to be able to judge a player on one or two games - don't think he will get another go when someone is injured, at least we know for sure now. Is there a reason he was chosen over Heleta? Do we know? Would he be better in the NRL than Milone? Is he carrying an injury?, does he have an attitude problem, does he turn up for training on time? Does the NSW Cup coach recommend him to JT over Milone? Everyone on here seems to know these answers except JT.
Whatever you do, sack coaches, players etc. there is always next weeks problems to overcome. Are the forwards going to stand up and win the ruck? Are they going to give 100% and bleed for The Tigers, if they are not, Why not? Are they not playing for The Team, their mates, their fans, their coach, Why not? If not get rid of them.
The backs cannot do much if the forwards are not going forward - however that does not excuse giving 100% (they may not be effective) but you always need to give it all you have (some weeks maybe down a little, but….).
I still leave all the tough decisions to the coach (whoever that may be) but you have to replace poor players with better ones. Do we have them? We certainly have not had the money to buy them.
I get that you all want to get rid of JT but the club cannot keep letting the players dictate what the club should do. They are professional footballers, who have signed a contract to play for The Tigers - not give 40%, 60% or 80% but to give it all. Most are being paid more than they are worth, playing for us because they came up through the ranks, or because no one else would give them a go. Whatever the reason - 100% is demanded each and every week, Whether they they like the coach or not.
Don't think people on this Forum need to be called names because they hold a different view. case in point is Moron (twice), Gary was called this, in this thread and it happens may times in other threads - I don't think we need to take this course.
Now I have a few questions:
If we get rid of JT, who do we replace him with? Folks does not want to coach NRL I believe, Payton is a bigger "Rookie" than Taylor was, Toovey lost his management confidence, and so did Cleary. They all come with baggage and is anyone going to make things better in 2016?
If we sack players and drop them to NSW Cup are there better players to replace them? A lot of posters are saying that Lovett and Milone are there because they are JT's pets. I don't know, are they? and Milone was only a replacement for Simona. You are not going to be able to judge a player on one or two games - don't think he will get another go when someone is injured, at least we know for sure now. Is there a reason he was chosen over Heleta? Do we know? Would he be better in the NRL than Milone? Is he carrying an injury?, does he have an attitude problem, does he turn up for training on time? Does the NSW Cup coach recommend him to JT over Milone? Everyone on here seems to know these answers except JT.
Whatever you do, sack coaches, players etc. there is always next weeks problems to overcome. Are the forwards going to stand up and win the ruck? Are they going to give 100% and bleed for The Tigers, if they are not, Why not? Are they not playing for The Team, their mates, their fans, their coach, Why not? If not get rid of them.
The backs cannot do much if the forwards are not going forward - however that does not excuse giving 100% (they may not be effective) but you always need to give it all you have (some weeks maybe down a little, but….).
I still leave all the tough decisions to the coach (whoever that may be) but you have to replace poor players with better ones. Do we have them? We certainly have not had the money to buy them.
I get that you all want to get rid of JT but the club cannot keep letting the players dictate what the club should do. They are professional footballers, who have signed a contract to play for The Tigers - not give 40%, 60% or 80% but to give it all. Most are being paid more than they are worth, playing for us because they came up through the ranks, or because no one else would give them a go. Whatever the reason - 100% is demanded each and every week, Whether they they like the coach or not.
stevetiger
New member
@Russell said:
I'm sure Folkes would jump at the opportunity but I wouldn't choose him. Payten is worth a shot. Changing the coach is in my opinion an easy decision. Taylor hasn't performed.
@Russell said:
Good question. I don't believe that you could make wholesale changes however some changes could be made.
Milone is useless but you are right in that he is only a replacement for Simona. The question I have is why wasn't JAC chosen instead. JAC has pace. Milone has nothing.
@Russell said:
I believe that they are trying. I don't believe they just gave up. I think though that there needs to be some changes here. It might not happen this season but we need to have 2 props + lock forward that belt it up the middle all game and I think that includes 3 players like that on the bench. We need to handle teams up the guts.
Then we need 2 backrowers that can run the ball out wide with pace and the ability to at least dent the line. Lawrence gets one spot but I think Sironen doesn't have that ability and someone else deserves a chance.
These aren't massive changes and the question is why isn't it happening now. Why did we let Taupau go ?
@Russell said:
I basically agree and we need to fix the forwards but our forwards haven't been smashed in every game we've lost and we've had plenty of chances to win. Our playmakers haven't performed up to the required standard. That includes Robbie, Brooks and Moses.
@Russell said:
Why not ? I think we all know that Robbie is overpaid. Are Brooks and Moses also overpaid. Is Woods overpaid.
There is a salary cap and we spend it. Money is not an excuse.
@Russell said:
I don't believe that this is a fair comment. Which player or which players are running the club. Why do you say this ? What proof do you have ?
I think JT has to go. He has been hopeless and we need a fresh start in that role. We are an underperforming side and we were last year as well. To add to that Taylor came here and has spoken dribble that I think we can all see was dribble.
TigerInBris
New member
We need strong leadership, we can pick what's wrong with the individual players, the coach, the CEO and the board. It's easy to blame JT and I believe he needs to go, as he is ineffective as the coach.
The question I have, assuming we replace him with a better coach, will that coach be able to lead, with the current club management?
We have some great players and moments of brilliance, they need strong leadership to glue this together into a performing team.
In my opinion, the board needs to be rolled and let the decisions flow downward, in a way that allows the right people to be hired and then let them do their job.
After last night and the last few games, for the first time in my life, I wish I had it in me to support a different team.
The question I have, assuming we replace him with a better coach, will that coach be able to lead, with the current club management?
We have some great players and moments of brilliance, they need strong leadership to glue this together into a performing team.
In my opinion, the board needs to be rolled and let the decisions flow downward, in a way that allows the right people to be hired and then let them do their job.
After last night and the last few games, for the first time in my life, I wish I had it in me to support a different team.
foreveratiger
New member
@Russell said:
You make alot of valid points Russell.
For me it's not a Personal thing against JT , even if Garry Jack was Coaching us would be calling for him to be sacked .
JT has been at the helm for a year and a half and as fans all we ask for…..is small steps in the right direction, i'm not asking to make the Top 8 , 10th-12th finish should be a reasonable target for him.
You can clearly see that his not respected by his players and have been told so that his held in low regard by the players despite the dribble they might say in the media about him......you can clearly see the body language from the players from the sheds , some players are walking around when his talking , some are looking at the floor , the body language is really poor .
Look at Bellamy's serves and rants when things are not going well , apparently you could hear him going off from the Grandstand when he was in the sheds at halftime last week , this guy commands respect.
As for what Coach to bring in ? i simply don't have an answer to that . What we need is someone that doesn't tolerate crap and doesn't accept mediocrity .
Well ….
1) Taylor won't go until/unless the KPIs that are apparently in place in his contract are not met. Just when the KPIs kick in, no one knows - probably around half way through the season I would think.
So we'll have Jason with us for a while yet I would think. The club cannot afford to sack another coach and pay out his contract.
2) There's no quick fix here. Players are contracted and those contracts have to be played out. Until that happens, we are hogtied by and large to the current playing roster. It would be nice to see the back of some of these players immediately, but that's just not possible.
3) Tiger Torch wrote a few days ago, that Taylor still had the confidence of most of the playing group. I doubt one huge loss like this will change that all of a sudden. Anything Anasta says should probably be taken with a pinch of salt. The man has an axe to grind with this club.
4) Other clubs have been on the end of a belting once or twice this year - Souths for one. Yet we don't have a crescendo of voices demanding the sacking of Maguire. I believe this team's response next week against Souths and in the following couple of weeks will be a more significant indication of just where the players are 'at' with the coach. If they support him, then we can expect better efforts. If the coach has 'lost' the group, then we can probably expect more sizable losses in the near future.
5) We (as supporters and fans) are very frustrated by team selections. This above all is the most concerning issue. Yet, again, as supporters we do not have the full knowledge of what 'politics' are at play within the club. Just how much freedom does Taylor enjoy in terms of team selections. What 'instruction' if any is he under from those higher up the food chain? Politics is a part of all organisations. We can expect that there are at least some restrictions that have been placed on Taylor. This is of course undesirable. It's not fare to anyone - players, coach, fans. But sometimes you need to 'play the game' in order to 'get on' in any organisation - unless you are a Bennett or Bellamy who are in a position to totally dictate their own terms. Very few coaches have that privilege.
6) Our playing roster is poor - with a few exceptions. However, as some have pointed out here on this forum, it may only take 3 or 4 top players to bring about enough of a change to have the team in contention. At the moment, funds probably don't allow for the club to enter the market for this type of player. However, post 2017, there will be a war chest available - as long as sensible decisions are made this year in terms of retention - (Brookes, Moses in particular).
7) Taylor may go this year - either voluntarily (which I doubt), by being sacked (which I doubt), or by failing to meet KPIs in his contract which may allow the club to terminate his contract without penalty, (the most likely. But regardless, whether he stays or goes, this year is going to be very tough. The best we can hope for in all likelihood, is to avoid the wooden spoon and avoid any more results like last night. Any new coach coming into the firing line with this roster is going to be on a hiding to nothing. You really would have to wonder just who would want the gig.
Even Bennett failed to get the Knights to any great heights in the couple of years he was with that club. It had people questioning his actual ability as a coach. We've seen with the way he has transformed what was an under-performing Brisbane team, just how good he is. Point being - no matter how good a coach someone is, without the right playing roster, you will struggle.
8) I believe that unless we get more results like last night in the next few weeks, then it would be better to keep Taylor in place. Struggle through this year as best as possible, hope that Brookes and Moses commit to next year (and only next year - I wouldn't be offering extensions to their contracts at all), and replace the coach at seasons end - we'll have a clearer picture of what finances will be like (will Farah stay? Will Lawrence accept a re-structuring of his contract? etc etc) and may as a result, be able to attract the right coach with the finances to support the signing of a couple of players that the new coach may deem as essential. Any other path taken at this time in my opinion will just be a band aid solution at best, and may in fact further hurt the club financially in the future.
1) Taylor won't go until/unless the KPIs that are apparently in place in his contract are not met. Just when the KPIs kick in, no one knows - probably around half way through the season I would think.
So we'll have Jason with us for a while yet I would think. The club cannot afford to sack another coach and pay out his contract.
2) There's no quick fix here. Players are contracted and those contracts have to be played out. Until that happens, we are hogtied by and large to the current playing roster. It would be nice to see the back of some of these players immediately, but that's just not possible.
3) Tiger Torch wrote a few days ago, that Taylor still had the confidence of most of the playing group. I doubt one huge loss like this will change that all of a sudden. Anything Anasta says should probably be taken with a pinch of salt. The man has an axe to grind with this club.
4) Other clubs have been on the end of a belting once or twice this year - Souths for one. Yet we don't have a crescendo of voices demanding the sacking of Maguire. I believe this team's response next week against Souths and in the following couple of weeks will be a more significant indication of just where the players are 'at' with the coach. If they support him, then we can expect better efforts. If the coach has 'lost' the group, then we can probably expect more sizable losses in the near future.
5) We (as supporters and fans) are very frustrated by team selections. This above all is the most concerning issue. Yet, again, as supporters we do not have the full knowledge of what 'politics' are at play within the club. Just how much freedom does Taylor enjoy in terms of team selections. What 'instruction' if any is he under from those higher up the food chain? Politics is a part of all organisations. We can expect that there are at least some restrictions that have been placed on Taylor. This is of course undesirable. It's not fare to anyone - players, coach, fans. But sometimes you need to 'play the game' in order to 'get on' in any organisation - unless you are a Bennett or Bellamy who are in a position to totally dictate their own terms. Very few coaches have that privilege.
6) Our playing roster is poor - with a few exceptions. However, as some have pointed out here on this forum, it may only take 3 or 4 top players to bring about enough of a change to have the team in contention. At the moment, funds probably don't allow for the club to enter the market for this type of player. However, post 2017, there will be a war chest available - as long as sensible decisions are made this year in terms of retention - (Brookes, Moses in particular).
7) Taylor may go this year - either voluntarily (which I doubt), by being sacked (which I doubt), or by failing to meet KPIs in his contract which may allow the club to terminate his contract without penalty, (the most likely. But regardless, whether he stays or goes, this year is going to be very tough. The best we can hope for in all likelihood, is to avoid the wooden spoon and avoid any more results like last night. Any new coach coming into the firing line with this roster is going to be on a hiding to nothing. You really would have to wonder just who would want the gig.
Even Bennett failed to get the Knights to any great heights in the couple of years he was with that club. It had people questioning his actual ability as a coach. We've seen with the way he has transformed what was an under-performing Brisbane team, just how good he is. Point being - no matter how good a coach someone is, without the right playing roster, you will struggle.
8) I believe that unless we get more results like last night in the next few weeks, then it would be better to keep Taylor in place. Struggle through this year as best as possible, hope that Brookes and Moses commit to next year (and only next year - I wouldn't be offering extensions to their contracts at all), and replace the coach at seasons end - we'll have a clearer picture of what finances will be like (will Farah stay? Will Lawrence accept a re-structuring of his contract? etc etc) and may as a result, be able to attract the right coach with the finances to support the signing of a couple of players that the new coach may deem as essential. Any other path taken at this time in my opinion will just be a band aid solution at best, and may in fact further hurt the club financially in the future.
The-moP
Well-known member
In all honesty, JT couldn't lead sheep to water at the moment.
It's obvious he has lost control and leadership of the locker room. Watching the half time camera's in the locker room, it was almost like the players have no faith in him, and it looked like he had no game plan or ideas on how to reverse the situation of the first half. Hence the final score.
With Pascoe being the former CEO at Penriff, I'm sure he'll be looking at Cleary if/when JT's head finds the chopping block this week.
What happened to the rumour mill that Elijah Taylor had joined us ??
Lovett, Halatau and Milone all need to be replaced with someone who can bring something to the team. These 3 guys just don't have that surprise NRL bench impact that is needed in todays game.
It's very disappointing to watch your team play so badly, but even worse to watch your coach who appeared clueless in trying to rectify the situation.
Bye, bye JT.
It's obvious he has lost control and leadership of the locker room. Watching the half time camera's in the locker room, it was almost like the players have no faith in him, and it looked like he had no game plan or ideas on how to reverse the situation of the first half. Hence the final score.
With Pascoe being the former CEO at Penriff, I'm sure he'll be looking at Cleary if/when JT's head finds the chopping block this week.
What happened to the rumour mill that Elijah Taylor had joined us ??
Lovett, Halatau and Milone all need to be replaced with someone who can bring something to the team. These 3 guys just don't have that surprise NRL bench impact that is needed in todays game.
It's very disappointing to watch your team play so badly, but even worse to watch your coach who appeared clueless in trying to rectify the situation.
Bye, bye JT.
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