OFFICIAL Jersey Flegg Cup

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Vicious said:
Sounds like Mason and Faagatu were two of our best Yossarian ?
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Yeah I thought so. Feledy is a handful. Halves were solid rather than brilliant. Forwards were generally good, Faagatu seemed classy. Vaihu had some nice touches. TDS was obviously well marked. Not a big factor in the game but didn’t do anything wrong either. Tumeth good but made a crucial error late on (from memory).
 
Iron Fist said:
Been reading a while, but new to post!

Interesting take on the management of these players from posters here. A lot of you seem to be in the know. I live in Canberra so was at the most recent game.

I thought our boys were cleary on top early in this game. They couldn't turn it into points, which from what I hear from the Canberra folk close to the Raiders was similar to the first game they played up in Sydney a month ago which also finished extremely close. My take on the weekend's game - Canberra were really good at slowing the ruck despite the big yardage territory wins the Tigers were making. The Raiders ability to slow the ruck became a Tigers disadvantage on goodball attacking plays where they failed to capitalise on their dominance. On the flipside, Canberra made the most of their few goodball opportunities, including scoring after a 40/20 at the end of the 1st half which swung momentum into their favour going into half time after the Tigers were better the team. Generally, the Raiders play the ball speed looked quicker than the Tigers which was probably the difference in the end. Big middles that were able to find their front.

On the young fellas, they all played very well I thought. A few other kids not named here were good too - the #13 Bailey Hodges is all effort, as is #12 Sione Vaihu with a bit more spark and polish, the #10 Herman Toafaeno is a bit of a wrecking ball, #17 Tray Lolesio has a bit of impact, and #11 Tony Sukkar had a very good game too when he was used in the second half, taking advantage of the tiring big Raiders middles. That was the clear difference I thought - Raiders were definitely taller through the middle and able to lock up the ball in defence to slow the ruck. Sukkar was the only middle Tigers had on par with them in height, but leaner.

Of the top 30 players Brandon Tumeth got through a mountain of work. Feledy looked dangerous whenever he got the ball, probably pushed a pass or two to his winger that wasn't there, and I clearly remember he passed inside on a line break when he should've passed outside to his unmarked winger who would've scored a try. Apisalome Saukuru was disappointing. Only used in the second half but gave away 2 penalties in succession which put the team under enormous pressure when the game was on the line. Was hooked not long afterwards. Da Silva seemed off. When he was replaced in the last 10 mins, he virtually collapsed on the sideline and didn't move for a while. When he did get up, he was limping noticeably so I think he's carrying some sort of injury.

Overall, disappointing to lose a close match. Some brain snaps and inability to convert pressure to points is what hurt the team on Saturday. Looking at the Flegg results on nswrl.com.au, the Raiders are grinding out close wins over the past couple of months and rocketed into finals contention. Tigers appear to have improved their points conceded, keeping teams under 18 points since in the past 5 matches, so there is some defensive consistency coming through. It's just in both Raiders games, they can't seem to score against them! Hopefully it doesn't fall into a heap now finals is a long shot.
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brilliant writeup mate, really appreciate it. welcome to the forum.
 
Iron Fist said:
Been reading a while, but new to post!

Interesting take on the management of these players from posters here. A lot of you seem to be in the know. I live in Canberra so was at the most recent game.

I thought our boys were cleary on top early in this game. They couldn't turn it into points, which from what I hear from the Canberra folk close to the Raiders was similar to the first game they played up in Sydney a month ago which also finished extremely close. My take on the weekend's game - Canberra were really good at slowing the ruck despite the big yardage territory wins the Tigers were making. The Raiders ability to slow the ruck became a Tigers disadvantage on goodball attacking plays where they failed to capitalise on their dominance. On the flipside, Canberra made the most of their few goodball opportunities, including scoring after a 40/20 at the end of the 1st half which swung momentum into their favour going into half time after the Tigers were better the team. Generally, the Raiders play the ball speed looked quicker than the Tigers which was probably the difference in the end. Big middles that were able to find their front.

On the young fellas, they all played very well I thought. A few other kids not named here were good too - the #13 Bailey Hodges is all effort, as is #12 Sione Vaihu with a bit more spark and polish, the #10 Herman Toafaeno is a bit of a wrecking ball, #17 Tray Lolesio has a bit of impact, and #11 Tony Sukkar had a very good game too when he was used in the second half, taking advantage of the tiring big Raiders middles. That was the clear difference I thought - Raiders were definitely taller through the middle and able to lock up the ball in defence to slow the ruck. Sukkar was the only middle Tigers had on par with them in height, but leaner.

Of the top 30 players Brandon Tumeth got through a mountain of work. Feledy looked dangerous whenever he got the ball, probably pushed a pass or two to his winger that wasn't there, and I clearly remember he passed inside on a line break when he should've passed outside to his unmarked winger who would've scored a try. Apisalome Saukuru was disappointing. Only used in the second half but gave away 2 penalties in succession which put the team under enormous pressure when the game was on the line. Was hooked not long afterwards. Da Silva seemed off. When he was replaced in the last 10 mins, he virtually collapsed on the sideline and didn't move for a while. When he did get up, he was limping noticeably so I think he's carrying some sort of injury.

Overall, disappointing to lose a close match. Some brain snaps and inability to convert pressure to points is what hurt the team on Saturday. Looking at the Flegg results on nswrl.com.au, the Raiders are grinding out close wins over the past couple of months and rocketed into finals contention. Tigers appear to have improved their points conceded, keeping teams under 18 points since in the past 5 matches, so there is some defensive consistency coming through. It's just in both Raiders games, they can't seem to score against them! Hopefully it doesn't fall into a heap now finals is a long shot.
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That's a good assessment. Hodges was good. Really we should have won the game.
 
Iron Fist said:
I hope the club is proactive with management of this group.

If these players are the next young crop, I'd want them playing together as much as possible. Mason, Feledy, Matai, Laulili, Faagatu, Da Silva, Sukkar, etc. They've all played SG Ball in February, so lots of games this year. What value is there splitting them up and pitting some of them in a fatigued state against men for the last few rounds? As in my last post, Da Silva already looks shot for the season!

Play them out in this grade that they're used, rest them up for a big pre season, then get some continuity for the first half of next season with all of them in Flegg. Add Latu Fainu next season to it too! Reading this page and the NRL pages, there appears to be a rush to get these young boys playing because the NRL team is doing so poorly. It's a trap!
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Josh Feledy told me he thought TDS was okay but who knows? Feledy is probably 60% there. With a good off-season he might rise up as 2024 progresses. Seeing him up close he didn't seem huge in terms of bulk and muscle but he's got a good starting point for a centre's body. He's reasonably tall and seems strong in game play.

I thought Mason was really good but the one aspect of his game that wasn't was competing for bombs. Wasn't in the same postcode when they started peppering high balls late on. Seemed the strategy was for a second rower to compete. As you no doubt observed, thus didn't work out well.
 
Yossarian said:
That's a good assessment. Hodges was good. Really we should have won the game.
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Appreciate your comments but therein lies the problem. WT are very good at losing a game they should have won but very rarely win a game they should have lost. This happens from NRL down through to the juniors. I reckon it’s cultural. We don’t see ourselves as winners and so it plays out in our results from time to time.
 
coivtny said:
Appreciate your comments but therein lies the problem. WT are very good at losing a game they should have won but very rarely win a game they should have lost. This happens from NRL down through to the juniors. I reckon it’s cultural. We don’t see ourselves as winners and so it plays out in our results from time to time.
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I get that and I sort of agree but junior grades are full of results like that. If Fainu and Gavin were our halves we'd probably have won by 12. That said, Canberra were tough and kept plugging away. Their replacement hooker was particularly dangerous.
 
Further to my previous comment, take yesterday as an example. Played 4 games, lost 4 games - 2 by 6 points and 2 by 4 points.
Probably could have won all 4 games but lost the lot. There’s something not quite right with the culture of the club when it comes to winning.
 
coivtny said:
Further to my previous comment, take yesterday as an example. Played 4 games, lost 4 games - 2 by 6 points and 2 by 4 points.
Probably could have won all 4 games but lost the lot. There’s something not quite right with the culture of the club when it comes to winning.
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I had a similar thought but NSW Cup did well to almost snatch that. They looked outgunned early on. NRLW were beaten by a better team. It was only a late rally that reduced the margin. NRL I was proud of the effort - could have won rather than should have. Flegg was the only game I saw where we should have won but didn't.
 
Iron Fist said:
Been reading a while, but new to post!

Interesting take on the management of these players from posters here. A lot of you seem to be in the know. I live in Canberra so was at the most recent game.

I thought our boys were cleary on top early in this game. They couldn't turn it into points, which from what I hear from the Canberra folk close to the Raiders was similar to the first game they played up in Sydney a month ago which also finished extremely close. My take on the weekend's game - Canberra were really good at slowing the ruck despite the big yardage territory wins the Tigers were making. The Raiders ability to slow the ruck became a Tigers disadvantage on goodball attacking plays where they failed to capitalise on their dominance. On the flipside, Canberra made the most of their few goodball opportunities, including scoring after a 40/20 at the end of the 1st half which swung momentum into their favour going into half time after the Tigers were better the team. Generally, the Raiders play the ball speed looked quicker than the Tigers which was probably the difference in the end. Big middles that were able to find their front.

On the young fellas, they all played very well I thought. A few other kids not named here were good too - the #13 Bailey Hodges is all effort, as is #12 Sione Vaihu with a bit more spark and polish, the #10 Herman Toafaeno is a bit of a wrecking ball, #17 Tray Lolesio has a bit of impact, and #11 Tony Sukkar had a very good game too when he was used in the second half, taking advantage of the tiring big Raiders middles. That was the clear difference I thought - Raiders were definitely taller through the middle and able to lock up the ball in defence to slow the ruck. Sukkar was the only middle Tigers had on par with them in height, but leaner.

Of the top 30 players Brandon Tumeth got through a mountain of work. Feledy looked dangerous whenever he got the ball, probably pushed a pass or two to his winger that wasn't there, and I clearly remember he passed inside on a line break when he should've passed outside to his unmarked winger who would've scored a try. Apisalome Saukuru was disappointing. Only used in the second half but gave away 2 penalties in succession which put the team under enormous pressure when the game was on the line. Was hooked not long afterwards. Da Silva seemed off. When he was replaced in the last 10 mins, he virtually collapsed on the sideline and didn't move for a while. When he did get up, he was limping noticeably so I think he's carrying some sort of injury.

Overall, disappointing to lose a close match. Some brain snaps and inability to convert pressure to points is what hurt the team on Saturday. Looking at the Flegg results on nswrl.com.au, the Raiders are grinding out close wins over the past couple of months and rocketed into finals contention. Tigers appear to have improved their points conceded, keeping teams under 18 points since in the past 5 matches, so there is some defensive consistency coming through. It's just in both Raiders games, they can't seem to score against them! Hopefully it doesn't fall into a heap now finals is a long shot.
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Thanks for the report 👍
Interesting you mentioned Bailey Hodges and Sione Vaihu as two of our standouts.
Both seem to be versatile Hodges plays hooker or lick while Vaihu plays second row or centre.
When you look at our top 30 contracted players, not many have much versatility which is a problem.
Lolesio is another interesting one as he is one of our only young forwards who is taller than average, mobile and aggressive.
What were your thoughts on Mason, the halves and Faagatu ?
 
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balmain boy said:
We lose the ruck in almost every match in every grade. Then we allow quick play the balls, have markers who aren't square and defenders who aren't in position.

Happened for a decade, why does no-one change anything.
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I agree with that summation.
I think part of it is a distinct lack of players who defend aggressively to try to hurt the opposing ball runner and/or force a mistake rather than just bringing them to ground because they have to.
Api is generally our hardest hitting forward now, why when he’s 20 kilos lighter than the rest of them ?
 
Iron Fist said:
I hope the club is proactive with management of this group.

If these players are the next young crop, I'd want them playing together as much as possible. Mason, Feledy, Matai, Laulili, Faagatu, Da Silva, Sukkar, etc. They've all played SG Ball in February, so lots of games this year. What value is there splitting them up and pitting some of them in a fatigued state against men for the last few rounds? As in my last post, Da Silva already looks shot for the season!

Play them out in this grade that they're used, rest them up for a big pre season, then get some continuity for the first half of next season with all of them in Flegg. Add Latu Fainu next season to it too! Reading this page and the NRL pages, there appears to be a rush to get these young boys playing because the NRL team is doing so poorly. It's a trap!
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Are they fatigued? They certainly shouldn't be. 2 months ago TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting. As a standout player he was playing 30 mins or so in flegg. 2 weeks later he was thrown into NRL. Shows no signs of planning or forethought.

We had a very weak flegg squad and some elite players from SG ball, the staff have basically refused to give the younger players an opportunity to progress. Wrapping everyone in cotton wool. By the time Faagutu, Laulilii etc were given a go the season was already over. If we had high performing squads in all comps then sure, players should earn their promotions through hard work and top performance, but we don't, we have the weakest NRL, NSW Cup and flegg squads that we've possibly ever had. It's not like the players keeping our boys out are having barnstormers, they're having shockers.

There is something very wrong with our development pathways. If a player is good enough they're old enough. Sure, if there are any injury/fitness concerns you don't push youngsters too hard. But if they're fit, and in good form we need to give them opportunities. Faagutu even played QLD cup last year (and played well!) as a schoolboy, yet we deemed he was barely ready for flegg this year. Pole was going well, but not a standout in Cup, as was Bula. Yet both have stepped up tremendously well in the NRL once given the opportunity.

In the u19 origin match our boys were the only players yet to taste Cup footy this season. Kit on his NSW Cup debut apparently made more metres (+post contact metres too) in his 30 mins off the bench than the rest of the pack did in the whole match. Didn't miss a tackle either. So why should his development be held back? There's only a few games left in all seasons, combos don't matter, preparing players for 2024 is the only thing we have left to offer (and has been the case for months now). Feledy, Faagutu and Laulilii should all finish the season in NSW Cup, getting experience against men. They've all proven themselves against teenagers, time for the step-up. Or possibly even give them a run off the bench in the NRL to blow their nerves and cobwebs out and give them a taste to inspire them in preseason.

Galvin and Luke Laulilii should even get a run in the flegg squad this year. Some people act like 18 and 19 year olds never progress quickly through the ranks. The best players do. I read an article not that long ago which went through the origin squads and i think all of the players (barring injury) debuted in the NRL before the age of 20
 
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balmain boy said:
Are they fatigued? They certainly shouldn't be. 2 months aho TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting. As a standout player he was playing 30 mins or so in flegg. 2 weeks later he was thrown into NRL.
We had a very weak flegg squad and some elite players from SG ball, the staff have basically refused to give the younger players an opportunity to progress. Wrapping everyone in cotton wool. By the time Faagutu, Laulilii etc were given a go the season was already over. If we had high performing squads in all comps then sure, players should earn their promotions through hard work and top performance, but we don't, we have the weakest NRL, NSW Cup and flegg squads that we've possibly ever had. It's not like the players keeping our boys out are having barnstormers, they're having shockers.
There is something very wrong with our development pathways. If a player is good enough they're old enough. Sure, if there are any injury/fitness concerns you don't push youngsters too hard. But if they're fit, and in good form we need to give them opportunities. Faagutu even played QLD cup last year (and played well!) as a schoolboy, yet we deemed he was barely ready for flegg this year. Pole was going well, but not a standout in Cup, as was Bula. Yet both have stepped up tremendously well in the NRL once given the opportunity.
In the u19 origin match our boys were the only players yet to taste Cup footy this season. Kit on his NSW Cup debut apparently made more metres (+post contact metres too) in his 30 mins off the bench than the rest of the pack did in the whole match. Didn't miss a tackle either. So why should his development be held back? There's only a few games left in all seasons, combos don't matter, preparing players for 2024 is the only thing we have left to offer (and has been the case for months now). Feledy, Faagutu and Laulilii should all finish the season in NSW Cup, getting experience against men. They've all proven themselves against teenagers, time for the step-up. Or possibly even give them a run off the bench in the NRL to blow their nerves and cobwebs out and give them a taste to inspire them in preseason.
Galvin and Luke Laulilii should even get a run in the flegg squad this year. Some people act like 18 and 19 year olds never progress quickly through the ranks. The best players do. I read an article not that long ago which went through the origin squads and i think all of the players (barring injury) debuted in the NRL before the age of 20
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The NSW Cup team selections have been a massive issue.
We have and still continue to select journeyman or players who have next to no chance of progressing to NRL ahead of players who are in our top 30 or on the verge of being on our top 30.
Makes no sense and wouldn’t be happening at any other clubs.
 
Are they fatigued? They certainly shouldn't be. 2 months ago TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting. As a standout player he was playing 30 mins or so in flegg. 2 weeks later he was thrown into NRL. Shows no signs of planning or forethought. I agree with what Balmain boy wrote. This has been one of many of the overall problems at West Tigers is the lack of overall skill development compared to other clubs and this is shown up in all grades for far to long. Having had a mate son been in the Roosters system in the half/5/8 they spend two days a week doing specific kicking drills and player placements and this is running in part by cooper cronk/Matt king and they do this the whole season. At Penrith they do they same process.
TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting he was not the only player/parent complaining about what was happening this season this has been on going for a while know, this part of the reason why the Storm are sniffing around some of players.
 
Bellend said:
Are they fatigued? They certainly shouldn't be. 2 months ago TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting. As a standout player he was playing 30 mins or so in flegg. 2 weeks later he was thrown into NRL. Shows no signs of planning or forethought. I agree with what Balmain boy wrote. This has been one of many of the overall problems at West Tigers is the lack of overall skill development compared to other clubs and this is shown up in all grades for far to long. Having had a mate son been in the Roosters system in the half/5/8 they spend two days a week doing specific kicking drills and player placements and this is running in part by cooper cronk/Matt king and they do this the whole season. At Penrith they do they same process.
TDS and his family were complaining about the lack of opportunities he was getting he was not the only player/parent complaining about what was happening this season this has been on going for a while know, this part of the reason why the Storm are sniffing around some of players.
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You’ve got to learn to quote a reply not copy it! Lucky I read the earlier post to work out where that finished and yours started.
 
Jersey Flegg Cup - Round 24 vs. Storm

Saturday, August 12 - 2:00 p.m. AEST
Lidcombe Oval, Sydney

WESTS TIGERS
1. Heath Mason
2. Trey Peni
3. Josh Feledy
4. Livai Saukuru
5. Jay Kirk
6. Iverson Matai
7. Zane Camroux
23. Jackson Owen
9. Tallyn Da Silva
10. Tray Lolesio
11. Brandon Tumeth (c)
12. Sione Vaihu
13. Bailey Hodges

14. Danny Ghantous
15. Christopher Faagutu
16. Apisalome Saukuru
17. Herman Tofaeono

18. Tony Sukkar
19. Michael Tannous
Coach: Scott Kenna

INS: Danny Ghantous, Zane Camroux

OUTS: Michael Tannous, Tony Sukkar
 
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