It’s either maturity or coaching but he wasn’t playing the same way when with us.
Jock Madden
- Thread starter king_sirro
- Start date
weststigerman
Well-known member
He was our best forward the year before he left. Sounded like Hartigan low-balled him on an extension and he got pissed.
earl
Well-known member
It was money. Same as Luc. They are both top quality forwards at the top of their games.
earl
Well-known member
Exactly. If anything I think he was better with us compared to Manly.
twentyforty
Well-known member
1. To’a
6. Brooks
7. Madden
9. Api
13. Hastings
Nothing wrong with that spine?
Brooks and Madden can sort out who plays 6 or 7.
6. Brooks
7. Madden
9. Api
13. Hastings
Nothing wrong with that spine?
Brooks and Madden can sort out who plays 6 or 7.
earl
Well-known member
You reckon that spine is good enough. I don't think To'a is a fullback. Brooks and Madden have been poor so far in the halves.
I don't know if Hastings can work as a lock forward.
I think we need better than that. Someone mentioned Brooks to fullback. We have plenty of halves now and there is no way Brooks is a sure pick if you pick your top two halves. Laurie has been way below par so far this year. Api comes in at 9 and we have Liddle/Simpkin and Rua available.
Just play Brooks at 1 or utility and if he doesn't cut if let him go with no freight.
twentyforty
Well-known member
I hear what you’re saying, but we have to work with what we have. Keep the team settled so they can find some rhythm, while at the same time be open to signing stronger players in our Weekes positions.
The problem is, Brooks is our best half by a country mile.
Hastings has played 13.
Laurie’s agent is agitating for a contract extension beyond 23 at a time when his form has been below average. We need to settle on our spine before Api gets here. They need to have at least 15 games together.
earl
Well-known member
I understand what you are stating as well but I think Brooks simply doesn't perform consistently under pressure and I have a lot more faith in Doueihi and Hastings. Madden is performing about the same level as Brooks and maybe his kicking game is better.
Brooks to me is the odd man out. Laurie isn't cutting it a fullback. I've give Brooks a go.
We need to try things and if that looks right then stick with it for some time.
Laurie may come good but I'm not confident.
twentyforty
Well-known member
If Laurie has purposefully played poorly as a tactic to move along contract negotiations, then we don’t want him. Other teams know Brooks has been our go to man for a long time now, they are handling him comfortably because he’s on his own. We haven’t seen Madden under the same sort of pressure, so contrary to the love affair the media have with Madden he is still 50 games away from getting anywhere near Brooks’ level.
Hastings is slow but can still attract defenders, at 13 he will do a job. Doueihi is also slow but like Hastings he can attract attention from the other side of the halves.
I agree, Brooks could make a decent FB but convinced he is our best 7.
Madge
Well-known member
Brooks to fullback is an impractical idea, isn't realistic and as long as Madge is here Brooks has a mortgage on that 7 jumper. The only probable changes Madge will make is the balance between the rest of the squad (i.e 6, 13 or the bench utility). Unless Laurie performs even worse to how he is going at the moment or the emergence of Dillon, he also will have that 1 jersey wrapped up. It sucks but it's the reality at present.
1 Laurie
4 Doueihi
6 Madden
7 Brooks
9 Api
13 Hastings
This is probably how Madge will line them up next year. Other possibilities is having Jacko at 6 next to Brooks considering how they have been doing pretty well connecting with each other and Madden out the door or if he's willing still in reserve grade. I don't think we will see Doueihi at 6 for a while to be honest, more so because of the balance of the squad and how committed Madge is to keeping Brooks at 7.
1 Laurie
4 Doueihi
6 Madden
7 Brooks
9 Api
13 Hastings
This is probably how Madge will line them up next year. Other possibilities is having Jacko at 6 next to Brooks considering how they have been doing pretty well connecting with each other and Madden out the door or if he's willing still in reserve grade. I don't think we will see Doueihi at 6 for a while to be honest, more so because of the balance of the squad and how committed Madge is to keeping Brooks at 7.
TieDye
Well-known member
1 Laurie
2 To'a
3 AJ
4 Doueihi
5 Maumalo
6 Hastings
7 Madden
8 Stef
9 API/Brooks
10 Musgrove
13 Twal/Joffa
12 Papa
11 Seyfarth Big Red
14 Brooks/Liddle
15 Simpkins/Joffa/Twal
16 Rua/Simpkin
17 Talau (2nd row)
18 🍑
19 Pole
20 Nofoaluma
21 Mikaele
22 Dillon
C: Madge
2 To'a
3 AJ
4 Doueihi
5 Maumalo
6 Hastings
7 Madden
8 Stef
9 API/Brooks
10 Musgrove
13 Twal/Joffa
12 Papa
11 Seyfarth Big Red
14 Brooks/Liddle
15 Simpkins/Joffa/Twal
16 Rua/Simpkin
17 Talau (2nd row)
18 🍑
19 Pole
20 Nofoaluma
21 Mikaele
22 Dillon
C: Madge
pawsandclaws1
Well-known member
Why is it some of our supporters want to get rid of the few genuine NRL quality players we have when we sign a handful of good players? I would have thought the more the better to support the few NRL quality players we do have.
twentyforty
Well-known member
Because, as I’ve previously posted many folks confuse change with progress.
TieDye
Well-known member
Tamou is done. Stick a fork in him. Nofoaluma serially overpaid under performer who undermines the culture! None of the others are even NRL standard and that’s a reflection of how bare the cupboard is - options will be available. Changing for the same old reasons will bring nothing new.
Motivation to get into the right positions out there on the field is sometimes a fire being lit under your arse, metaphorically speaking, hence why I’ve given your love child L. Brooks a go at hooker - last chance saloon!
jirskyr
Well-known member
Just to revisit this thread, I thought Madden was bog ordinary again against Sharks.
I'm truly not against giving blokes a proper run in firsts, and we've given Luke Brooks oodles of time for very little return, but I still don't think I've seen a match yet where Madden did anything good or threatening for any sustained period of time.
I do agree that Madden could end up being a Chad Townsend type semi-reliable passer kicker, as long as you do not expect him to create tries, line breaks or tackle breaks.
Unfortunately for Jock he's 1 win from 6 matches, and 0/5 when starting. His one win came off the bench where he played 13 mins during the Magic Round win over Newcastle.
Double unfortunate is in the 5 matches Jock has started, our points-for total is 38, i.e. 7.6 points per match, including 2 matches where we failed to score any tries, and 1 match (being last week) where we only scored from a last-minute Maumalo intercept.
Jock has 1 try assist his whole career, i.e. a rate of 0.17. By comparison, Brooks has 99 try assists in 177 matches = a rate of 0.56 per match = 3.3x better than Madden.
Another comparison - aforementioned Chad Townsend, who I don't rate as an attacking unit, has 0.51 try assists per match. Brandon Wakeham, who is also shit, has 0.38 try assists per match. Kyle Flanagan has 0.48. Ben Hunt has 0.50. Adam Clune has 0.40. This tells you even the more ordinary halves in the comp are still striking in the vicinity of 0.4-0.5 try assists per match.
Madden's partner in all 5 matches was Luke Brooks, so this tells you both that Madden is not helping the team score points, and that his combination with Brooks is highly ineffective.
However Brooks' average points-for is 19.2 per match, over 177 matches. Yes Brooks has had much better opportunity to ply his trade and sometimes been partnered with effective attack players like Doueihi and Benji, but it also shows that adding Jock Madden to the mix brings Brook's points tally down an average ~12 points per match.
I'm truly not against giving blokes a proper run in firsts, and we've given Luke Brooks oodles of time for very little return, but I still don't think I've seen a match yet where Madden did anything good or threatening for any sustained period of time.
I do agree that Madden could end up being a Chad Townsend type semi-reliable passer kicker, as long as you do not expect him to create tries, line breaks or tackle breaks.
Unfortunately for Jock he's 1 win from 6 matches, and 0/5 when starting. His one win came off the bench where he played 13 mins during the Magic Round win over Newcastle.
Double unfortunate is in the 5 matches Jock has started, our points-for total is 38, i.e. 7.6 points per match, including 2 matches where we failed to score any tries, and 1 match (being last week) where we only scored from a last-minute Maumalo intercept.
Jock has 1 try assist his whole career, i.e. a rate of 0.17. By comparison, Brooks has 99 try assists in 177 matches = a rate of 0.56 per match = 3.3x better than Madden.
Another comparison - aforementioned Chad Townsend, who I don't rate as an attacking unit, has 0.51 try assists per match. Brandon Wakeham, who is also shit, has 0.38 try assists per match. Kyle Flanagan has 0.48. Ben Hunt has 0.50. Adam Clune has 0.40. This tells you even the more ordinary halves in the comp are still striking in the vicinity of 0.4-0.5 try assists per match.
Madden's partner in all 5 matches was Luke Brooks, so this tells you both that Madden is not helping the team score points, and that his combination with Brooks is highly ineffective.
However Brooks' average points-for is 19.2 per match, over 177 matches. Yes Brooks has had much better opportunity to ply his trade and sometimes been partnered with effective attack players like Doueihi and Benji, but it also shows that adding Jock Madden to the mix brings Brook's points tally down an average ~12 points per match.
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Comparisons between a kid who has played 6 games to a bloke who has played 177 don’t cut the mustard …especially when his entire number of games is when we are at our worst… as is the bloke you’re comparing him to.
tig_prmz
Well-known member
If he has one try assist next game, the rate will be 0.3?
A halfback's value would be far beyond the stats you've posted. I know you're not saying rate of tries per match is the best value but I don't think stats alone will determine Madden's effectiveness.
I can't see us signing an elite halfback for a while. Brooks will be here for 2 years and maybe the best we can sign is someone like an Aidan Sezer or Kyle Flanagan- an unproven rookie or an experienced but ineffective player.
We will be with Hastings, Douehi, Brooks and Madden as our halves for at least 3 years. Let's not wait for someone from the outside to come in and own this team. We have to put all our resources into developing Madden- see how he goes for 2 years and if it doesn't work out, we can go hit the market end of next year.
tony soprano
Well-known member
earl
Well-known member
You realize Brooks has been moved to 6 this week.
