Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Telltails]

Mass droppings don't work either- ever. Coaches these days almost need a psychology degree to manage players to stop them from having a sulk. They are dealing with young people who have been raised very differently to days gone by and are not very well versed at accountabily and self reflection. They can mimic all the right words but whether they believe any of it is debatable.Unfortunately by the time they get it for a lot of them their careers are over.

 

[mikey]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

 

[jirskyr]

Change starts at the Top - CEO Pascoe needs to go.

Has there actually ever been a CEO sacked in NSWRL / ARL / NRL history because the team isn't getting enough wins? Technically not their job.

Always a first ...
What’s he done in his 5 years besides balls everything up ?

Get the club solvent. There must be a reason Wests Leagues don't sack him, it would be easy enough to do. I've met Pascoe, he's certainly not a moron.

Must be good with words ?
Like a used car salesman !

Well used car salesmen do make a living. There's been a few of those in charge of other clubs and the NRL itself in my time.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

The way he's going he won't last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he's made the worse we've gone.

Prior to the start of this season St George were tipped to get the spoon. They lost Frizell
to the Knights and McGuinness (to injury) and they picked up Andrew McCullough and Daniel Alvaro. And yet, somehow, Griffin has got them firing. Why is that? Why can he get the most out of a team that absolutely isn't his and Madge can't get anything out of a team he assembled? And I couldn't care less what he's done in the past because whatever it is, it isn't working here. Looking at where we currently are i'd say he's been the worst coach we've had since Sheens left.

 

[jirskyr]

Here's the ultimate question re the coach: do we think Tigers went out and executed the game plan the coach set, and if yes was it a bad gameplan against that opposition?

I don't think anyone can argue we executed, so then it goes to roster. Is the roster good enough to play better football? I think it's yes, I think the roster is actually OK as far as NRL goes.

So then it's down to man-management. Why did a reasonable roster not go closer to achieving the game plan? Not perfectly of course, but just somewhere closer?

And that's the $4M question, because it's either that the coach can't get his team psychologically ready and confident, or the team is mentally weak. And it's impossible for an outsider to say which is which, especially with Tigers having no baseline. I.e. we often don't play to our ability, and that existed well before Maguire became coach, but it also existed before any of the current roster were even in WT colours.

An interesting comparison is Anthony Griffin. Dragons played really well yesterday and I was prepared, as of last week, to write them off as not having played any decent opposition. It may still be that Dragons fade as the season goes on, but right now Rd 6 Griffin has that team competing and energetic, and I think it was Brandy who said he doesn't think he's seen such a competitive level from Dragons in 2 seasons.

However Anthony Griffin was sacked from 2 previous clubs, so it can't simply be that he's a great coach.

 

[Goanna57]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

Ok point taken on some of the none performing players,Marshall is not the only ex player to dish on the club is that a coincidence or just bad luck. As for giving him till end of next year I’ll run with that after all what’s one more year of missing finals it’s only been 10 but as I said run with it

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Go with John Morris and have Tim Sheens come in as a coaching director

 

[hobbo1]

Sometimes you need to go backwards before you can go forward. Sacking Madge won’t achieve anything. Culture change takes a long time. Madge sets high standards and that’s exactly what this club needs. For too long we have been happy with mediocrity, Madge isn’t and neither am I.

I'm with you there Mike. The problem is higher than him but unfortunately they won't see themselves as the problem

And we can't do anything about them by the sounds of things. So, round and round we go.

No we don’t go round and round. That would be sacking the coach. Change can come from the top down but it can also come from the bottom up. We need to continue to set high standards for the players until they get it. Those players that can’t, you move them on. Mediocrity will not be accepted.

So by my reckoning we have 4 players worth keeping and we need to move on the rest ...revolving door mate !

Letting the players get away with that performance by sacking the coach is exactly why we are in the current predicament. It breeds poor culture by allowing a lack of player accountability for their performances. That has to stop and now. Do what the coach wants or I’ll see you out the door is what is needed now. This is what all the successful teams do.

Look at how many new players and re- signed players in Maguire’s time at the club between 76-80% how many more turn over of players do you want .He’s not getting them to gel he brought the majority of this players into the side it’s on him he’s not getting the team to improve at all


So you keep turning the players over until you get the right mix. This is not a Maguire issue, it has been going on for a decade where the players were not held responsible, instead it was all on the coach. An easy out for the players.

?
You’re digging your heels in with this one ..


I absolutely am. The players need to be held accountable for that dismal display yesterday. If the players are not performing to the standard required then see you later.

We’ll pay them out then and get in more nuffies on the chump change we’ll have left over
Surely Madge knew the players deficiencies before extending the likes of Nuffoaluma and Brooks !
ITS ON HIM !

 

[TrueTiger]

Sometimes you need to go backwards before you can go forward. Sacking Madge won’t achieve anything. Culture change takes a long time. Madge sets high standards and that’s exactly what this club needs. For too long we have been happy with mediocrity, Madge isn’t and neither am I.

I'm with you there Mike. The problem is higher than him but unfortunately they won't see themselves as the problem

And we can't do anything about them by the sounds of things. So, round and round we go.

No we don’t go round and round. That would be sacking the coach. Change can come from the top down but it can also come from the bottom up. We need to continue to set high standards for the players until they get it. Those players that can’t, you move them on. Mediocrity will not be accepted.

So by my reckoning we have 4 players worth keeping and we need to move on the rest ...revolving door mate !

Letting the players get away with that performance by sacking the coach is exactly why we are in the current predicament. It breeds poor culture by allowing a lack of player accountability for their performances. That has to stop and now. Do what the coach wants or I’ll see you out the door is what is needed now. This is what all the successful teams do.

Look at how many new players and re- signed players in Maguire’s time at the club between 76-80% how many more turn over of players do you want .He’s not getting them to gel he brought the majority of this players into the side it’s on him he’s not getting the team to improve at all


So you keep turning the players over until you get the right mix. This is not a Maguire issue, it has been going on for a decade where the players were not held responsible, instead it was all on the coach. An easy out for the players.

?
You’re digging your heels in with this one ..


I absolutely am. The players need to be held accountable for that dismal display yesterday. If the players are not performing to the standard required then see you later.

That sounds great but who do you replace them with. We need to make smart rational well thought out decisions. A blanket sack them statement isn't the way you run a professional club.

You do look to improve though.


They need to held accountable. Don't let the inmates get away with rubbish, they are responsible for their own performance, they are supposed professionals. Unfortunately they are acting as amateurs as there is no accountability for their performances. If it takes sacking a few and brining on the juniors early to get it through their heads that that is not acceptable, then so be it.

It'll get worse and I'm sorry but I expect a club to be professional. We need to go away from reactive decision making.

I'd be prepared to take a further hit in the short term to fix the attitude problem.

Problem is Mike,for years this has been going on,blame the coach,blame the halfback,blame the board and blame recruiting....
I look at Storm,Roosters and even Dragons this year..
Each player runs onto the field and know their job to do,they go ahead and do their job and stay to the game plan and structure...
Our players run out,someone doesnt do their job and the WHOLE team panics and the structures fall apart...
Its been going on for a decade....fix it and the team wins...they have to know THEIR JOBS....

 

[jirskyr]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

 

[Goanna57]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

The way he's going he won't last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he's made the worse we've gone.

Prior to the start of this season St George were tipped to get the spoon. They lost Frizell
to the Knights and McGuinness (to injury) and they picked up Andrew McCullough and Daniel Alvaro. And yet, somehow, Griffin has got them firing. Why is that? Why can he get the most out of a team that absolutely isn't his and Madge can't get anything out of a team he assembled? And I couldn't care less what he's done in the past because whatever it is, it isn't working here. Looking at where we currently are i'd say he's been the worst coach we've had since Sheens left.

100% correct avoc

 

[avocadoontoast]

However Anthony Griffin was sacked from 2 previous clubs, so it can’t simply be that he’s a great coach.

Griffin wasn't sacked from Brisbane, he wasn't extended due to Bennett coming back. He got sacked from Penrith but he had them in the top 4 at the time.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Additionally, why is Griffin able to get so much out the Dragons after one preseason and Madge can only manage to get us playing worse after 2 years and 5 rounds? Why can't he get them playing to an acceptable standard?

 

[Goanna57]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Some just can’t see it

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Vince Lombardi wouldn't be able to coach this team to success.

 

[TrueTiger]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Some just can’t see it

Some dont want to see that Ivan bought his players such as Packer,Mbye,Reynolds and Matalino...
How have all of those worked out,even go back as far as Ballin for eg...
Madge is building..Laurie,Stef,AJ,Tuiki etc are young talented players developing toward NRL standard,THIS is when we will see the great work Madge has done...

SOME CANT SEE IT......

 

[Geo]

Sometimes you need to go backwards before you can go forward. Sacking Madge won’t achieve anything. Culture change takes a long time. Madge sets high standards and that’s exactly what this club needs. For too long we have been happy with mediocrity, Madge isn’t and neither am I.

I'm with you there Mike. The problem is higher than him but unfortunately they won't see themselves as the problem

And we can't do anything about them by the sounds of things. So, round and round we go.

No we don’t go round and round. That would be sacking the coach. Change can come from the top down but it can also come from the bottom up. We need to continue to set high standards for the players until they get it. Those players that can’t, you move them on. Mediocrity will not be accepted.

So by my reckoning we have 4 players worth keeping and we need to move on the rest ...revolving door mate !

Letting the players get away with that performance by sacking the coach is exactly why we are in the current predicament. It breeds poor culture by allowing a lack of player accountability for their performances. That has to stop and now. Do what the coach wants or I’ll see you out the door is what is needed now. This is what all the successful teams do.

Look at how many new players and re- signed players in Maguire’s time at the club between 76-80% how many more turn over of players do you want .He’s not getting them to gel he brought the majority of this players into the side it’s on him he’s not getting the team to improve at all


So you keep turning the players over until you get the right mix. This is not a Maguire issue, it has been going on for a decade where the players were not held responsible, instead it was all on the coach. An easy out for the players.

?
You’re digging your heels in with this one ..


I absolutely am. The players need to be held accountable for that dismal display yesterday. If the players are not performing to the standard required then see you later.

We’ll pay them out then and get in more nuffies on the chump change we’ll have left over
Surely Madge knew the players deficiencies before extending the likes of Nuffoaluma and Brooks !
ITS ON HIM !

That's actually the opposite of good roster management..having a chuck of your salary cap playing for other teams doesn't work either..

You need to keep investing in youth but at the same time you don't rush them like lambs to the slaughter..whilst getting the best out of the squad you have..that's on Maguire..

 

[avocadoontoast]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Some just can’t see it

Some dont want to see that Ivan bought his players such as Packer,Mbye,Reynolds and Matalino...
How have all of those worked out,even go back as far as Ballin for eg...
Madge is building..Laurie,Stef,AJ,Tuiki etc are young talented players developing toward NRL standard,THIS is when we will see the great work Madge has done...

SOME CANT SEE IT......

So you're happy with how we're travelling? you think he's doing a good job?

 

[mikey]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

The way he's going he won't last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he's made the worse we've gone.

Prior to the start of this season St George were tipped to get the spoon. They lost Frizell
to the Knights and McGuinness (to injury) and they picked up Andrew McCullough and Daniel Alvaro. And yet, somehow, Griffin has got them firing. Why is that? Why can he get the most out of a team that absolutely isn't his and Madge can't get anything out of a team he assembled? And I couldn't care less what he's done in the past because whatever it is, it isn't working here. Looking at where we currently are i'd say he's been the worst coach we've had since Sheens left.

Griffin has always been a god coach but not great with getting on ith the powers that be by the looks of it. It also helps that the players believe in themselves again now McGregor is gone and the rift re De Belin seems to have sorted itself out.
We haven't worked out what the cancer is at the club - why I don't know but like most I'm over it. After a series of coaches coming and going and the same old not making the finals I don't think it is Madge - it something else that hasn't changed.

 

[TrueTiger]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Some just can’t see it

Some dont want to see that Ivan bought his players such as Packer,Mbye,Reynolds and Matalino...
How have all of those worked out,even go back as far as Ballin for eg...
Madge is building..Laurie,Stef,AJ,Tuiki etc are young talented players developing toward NRL standard,THIS is when we will see the great work Madge has done...

SOME CANT SEE IT......

So you're happy with how we're travelling? you think he's doing a good job?

Yes I do as far as developing young players and giving them a go,as far as some of the NRL experienced players go they should KNOW THEIR JOB,its them that are letting us down atm,...
I dont want to be involved in an argument regarding the coach because Im not an NRL coach,but ,I can see the difficulty in grooming young guys and trying to get the best out of senior players...
I will give you an example and my opinion on one instance...
BJ made Noffa look good last year playing alongside of him,BJs form had him dumped to ressies,BJ is a right side centre and so is Roberts...
Mbye did a job in centres and I think he is a left side centre if he was to play there again....Now these are seasoned NRL players and should know how to play their positions,BJ on his day is dynamic,can we blame Madge for his outbursts and lack of control...
there are many more eg I can give,but Im sure you have an idea that Im not just sticking up for the coach but pointing out player defficiencies when they are needed most.....