Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[hobbo1]

Sometimes you need to go backwards before you can go forward. Sacking Madge won’t achieve anything. Culture change takes a long time. Madge sets high standards and that’s exactly what this club needs. For too long we have been happy with mediocrity, Madge isn’t and neither am I.

I'm with you there Mike. The problem is higher than him but unfortunately they won't see themselves as the problem

And we can't do anything about them by the sounds of things. So, round and round we go.

No we don’t go round and round. That would be sacking the coach. Change can come from the top down but it can also come from the bottom up. We need to continue to set high standards for the players until they get it. Those players that can’t, you move them on. Mediocrity will not be accepted.

So by my reckoning we have 4 players worth keeping and we need to move on the rest ...revolving door mate !

Letting the players get away with that performance by sacking the coach is exactly why we are in the current predicament. It breeds poor culture by allowing a lack of player accountability for their performances. That has to stop and now. Do what the coach wants or I’ll see you out the door is what is needed now. This is what all the successful teams do.

Look at how many new players and re- signed players in Maguire’s time at the club between 76-80% how many more turn over of players do you want .He’s not getting them to gel he brought the majority of this players into the side it’s on him he’s not getting the team to improve at all


So you keep turning the players over until you get the right mix. This is not a Maguire issue, it has been going on for a decade where the players were not held responsible, instead it was all on the coach. An easy out for the players.

?
You’re digging your heels in with this one ..


I absolutely am. The players need to be held accountable for that dismal display yesterday. If the players are not performing to the standard required then see you later.

We’ll pay them out then and get in more nuffies on the chump change we’ll have left over
Surely Madge knew the players deficiencies before extending the likes of Nuffoaluma and Brooks !
ITS ON HIM !

That's actually the opposite of good roster management..having a chuck of your salary cap playing for other teams doesn't work either..

You need to keep investing in youth but at the same time you don't rush them like lambs to the slaughter..whilst getting the best out of the squad you have..that's on Maguire..

So why does Pascoe and Gadget man even entertain these nuffies down at a cafe in the first place ..
It’s the same crap year after year ..rinse and repeat

 

[jirskyr]

The way he’s going he won’t last until the end of this year and nor should he. 28 of the top 30 were signed or re-signed by Maguire. Whether you like it or not, this is his team. More disturbingly, the more signings he’s made the worse we’ve gone.

A couple of points:

(1) It's not simply "Madge's team" in sense of the roster. Since Cleary the club don't let the coach do 100% of the hiring and firing, so it's actually a committee making the decisions and Madge can be over-ruled. Madge is supposed to get results out of players even if he personally didn't seek the player out.

(2) When you inherit some massive salaries, that affects the decision-making. Yes 28/30 or whatever were signed under Maguire, but he's still had to deal with the Packer, Mbye, Reynolds decisions, plus the salary cap dent due to Farahgate. Sometimes the coach and committee have to do what they can, e.g. sign or re-sign average players, until the the funds become available for something better. You still need to field 30 every year.

I still think it's very hard for a coach to take on a struggling club and be expected to just turn it around. Yes it can be argued we are not improving but Madge has only been at the club 2 years and 5 rounds, and the first year was absolutely in the shadow of Ivan Clearly leaving, so arguably one full season properly in charge.

It's not as if Madge had a good side and they turned bad when he joined. In many ways we are like Warriors, Knights, clubs like that... there's some fundamental cultural issue that many coaches have tried and seemingly failed to change.

In his first year here with Cleary's roster we were 1 game from making the 8. Since then it's been a gradual decline. Unfortunately the longer he's here, the worse it's getting. It's not working.

Additionally, why is Griffin able to get so much out the Dragons after one preseason and Madge can only manage to get us playing worse after 2 years and 5 rounds? Why can't he get them playing to an acceptable standard?

So your solution, if a coach can't improve the side's ladder position after an average first season, is to punt the coach in the third season?

Anthony Griffin is having a good run of 5 weeks, it remains to be seen if he can do better. Ivan Cleary got Tigers 5/6 in 2018 and we all know what happened eventually.

 

[avocadoontoast]

So your solution, if a coach can’t improve the side’s ladder position after an average first season, is to punt the coach in the third season?

Pretty much. It's quite obvious we're heading backwards, not forwards. There has been no progress, no improvement. He can't get us competing.

 

[Guest]

I think we can safely say Madge won't be sacked based on comments made by the Chairman - he's pretty clear about where they stand with him. Mental application of the players...that's another story and no coach has been able to sort that. I reckon there's only a couple of coaches in this comp who could do it.

 

[tigerap]

Our biggest issue as a club for years is we cannot handle expectations when they are placed on the team!!...yesterday the team had huge expectations placed on them, and everything was in place for them to have a huge win..and what happened they flopped!.. maybe not at yesterdays magnitude, but seen it time and time before..until this club can learn to handle expectations forget about playing semis

 

[Rugba]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

What did Marshall say to be legally smashed ?

 

[Bigscreentv]

Not all that Madge has done has been bad. He's definitely made some good signings, however the key issue with him is that there seems to be a disconnect between his key values as a coach and the response/action of the players. For example:

- "He's a disciplinarian" - we're one of the most ill-disciplined team in NRL.
- "His teams train really hard" - AJ Kepaoa is meant to be the best athlete on the field (being a winger) and he has a gut.
- "He's organised and obsessed" - We have a squad that can do damage, yet we lack serious organisation.

I'm not saying Madge isn't these things above, but the players aren't demonstrating it on the field. They aren't responding to the coaching staff and they aren't playing for each other. You can see it in their body language.

Finally - I'm also not sure his "my way or the highway" approach works when you're losing as it creates too much negativity in the squad. It's definitely an old-school approach and the players look as though the players are exhausted mentally; they're definitely very lethargic.

Not trying to be super-negative, just stating what I see. I'd like for it to work out for him, but maybe a back to basics approach would work at the moment...i.e. get your forwards working together, make sure the backs have depth, improve communication in defence etc. Unfortunately, from what I'm seeing he doesn't have the coaching style to get them out of a slump.

 

[Rugba]

Not all that Madge has done has been bad. He's definitely made some good signings, however the key issue with him is that there seems to be a disconnect between his key values as a coach and the response/action of the players. For example:

- "He's a disciplinarian" - we're one of the most ill-disciplined team in NRL.
- "His teams train really hard" - AJ Kepaoa is meant to be the best athlete on the field (being a winger) and he has a gut.
- "He's organised and obsessed" - We have a squad that can do damage, yet we lack serious organisation.

I'm not saying Madge isn't these things above, but the players aren't demonstrating it on the field. They aren't responding to the coaching staff and they aren't playing for each other. You can see it in their body language.

Finally - I'm also not sure his "my way or the highway" approach works when you're losing as it creates too much negativity in the squad. It's definitely an old-school approach and the players look as though the players are exhausted mentally; they're definitely very lethargic.

Not trying to be super-negative, just stating what I see. I'd like for it to work out for him, but maybe a back to basics approach would work at the moment...i.e. get your forwards working together, make sure the backs have depth, improve communication in defence etc. Unfortunately, from what I'm seeing he doesn't have the coaching style to get them out of a slump.

Disciplinaration has to with training , not on field penalties etc - his Souths side was given a dream run by the refs and the Souths players got away with a lot of crap

 

[mikey]

Said it few weeks ago, no depth in attack and to structured, every Team has an attack and defensive coach, but Madge would oversee, so overall he is responsible. All the Top Teams have adjusted to the new rules, and speed of the game, not us. Event ST G Illawarra when using a power game, ran hard and tackled hard. Big Problems in Tigertown

So Madge trains and coaches them to miss tackles, walk in attack, drop the ball and basically play crap, does he?

There would be a few players who would be very sheepish to turn up this morning.

When do the players take responsibility for their own performances? Most (if not all) are on $300k+ a season, that’s over $5k a week (I would have worked 24/7 for that) and that’s the lower paid blokes, that is big money for anyone, never mind a bunch of kids, don’t think it’s too much to ask them to earn their pay?

Are you suggesting the coach who signed/re-signed these players isn’t responsible?

And this is the point most defending him are missing

Not sure the people who stick up for him are missing the point. Yes, there are some of his signings that don't appear to be performing atm but there are still a number of his non-signings that aren't working out and will be with us for some more time.
The point most of the sack-him sayers are missing is this is a long-haul fix. You can't change a 'I won't put in' or 'It's someone else's fault' mentality overnight - this has been allowed to fester for more than a decade through a series of coaches, managements and players. It also doesn't help when ex-players dish out crap on the club. I hope we legally smash Marshall this week.
Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year. Maybe it will work out and maybe it won't but pulling the pin on him now will only lead to more unhappiness and a rudderless ship. Not to mention probably even more years as the laughing stock of the NRL.

What did Marshall say to be legally smashed ?

He was very criticial of the club a week or so ago. Basically, smirking with I told you you still needed me look. Couldn't wait to get the knife in.
Love him for what he did in the early years but a liability and self-inflated opinion - Leg End in His Own Mind.

 

[JayT]

Its our team im unhappy with, not ex players heh

 

[ElleryHanley]

Madge was the perfect coach with the Cleary team he inherited.

Lots of vets, many felt betrayed...the motivational / hard man stuff worked well and he got us within one game of the finals. I think he suits that kind of scenario. For that team, he was the perfect fit.

But, with a young team that needs coaching...and real game plans...and improvement...and tactical nous...and in game coaching that works...and real defensive structures...Madge is not the man. He is not 'that' type of coach.

 

[Elderslie_Tiger]

Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire backed by club
The Wests Tigers have given an iron-clad guarantee that coach Michael Maguire’s job is safe.
After a terrible performance against the Cowboys on Sunday, chairman Lee Hagipantelis directed full blame at the playing group.
“There is no change of coach on our radar whatsoever,” Hagipantelis said.
“Madge has extended for two years. I don’t think the issue at our club is the coaching.
“Your patience can be tested but that first half performance on Sunday was all about effort and attitude.”
The Wests Tigers lost 34-30 and were booed off the paddock at half-time, trailing 28-6.
“This is something no administration has got control over,” Hagipantelis said.
“Once the boys cross that line and run onto the paddock they’ve got to do their jobs.
“We can’t run onto the field and neither can Madge.
“It’s not his job to make tackles and catch the football.
“I’m sure he’ll make the appropriate enquiries into why they played so poorly.
“We’ve got some cap space and when the appropriate opportunity comes up, we’ll be looking at it.”


Pretty spot on what Lee has said good to see he's got an ironclad guarantee and not the full support of the board

 

[851]

Ive never wanted a coach sacked before but i think its time he moved on. They arent listening and decensive structure is poor and thats the coaches bread and butter

The attacking structure is also poor

Is that the attack that scored 30 and has done better than 22 for 3 straight weeks?

If you think our attack is structured and in good shape you are watching a different game to me, we look lost in the opposition 20, players are running in to each other, the halfback seems to have no idea what he is supposed to do, and we get the odd lucky try.

 

[ElleryHanley]

**“We can’t run onto the field and neither can Madge.
“It’s not his job to make tackles and catch the football.**

I hate these types of quotes from higher ups who don't understand the game.

"The coach can't run on the field"...really, that is all you have got? Yes, he can't run on the field **but he can get the team ready so they don't constantly come out flat. This has happened multiple times**

"It is not his job to tackle and catch"..**.but it is his job to teach them how to tackle, implement structures, and jump / protect on kicks.**

 

[Speed2burn]

Ive never wanted a coach sacked before but i think its time he moved on. They arent listening and decensive structure is poor and thats the coaches bread and butter

The attacking structure is also poor

Is that the attack that scored 30 and has done better than 22 for 3 straight weeks?

If you think our attack is structured and in good shape you are watching a different game to me, we look lost in the opposition 20, players are running in to each other, the halfback seems to have no idea what he is supposed to do, and we get the odd lucky try.

I agree there is nothing structured about our attack at all

2nd half it’s like we just threw the game plan out the window and played razzle dazzle. And it nearly paid off

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I think we can safely say Madge won't be sacked based on comments made by the Chairman - he's pretty clear about where they stand with him. Mental application of the players...that's another story and no coach has been able to sort that. I reckon there's only a couple of coaches in this comp who could do it.

IC did it. SMH article this morning is a disgrace. Name should be given to that individual in the corporate box.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

Madge was the perfect coach with the Cleary team he inherited.

Lots of vets, many felt betrayed...the motivational / hard man stuff worked well and he got us within one game of the finals. I think he suits that kind of scenario. For that team, he was the perfect fit.

But, with a young team that needs coaching...and real game plans...and improvement...and tactical nous...and in game coaching that works...and real defensive structures...Madge is not the man. He is not 'that' type of coach.

John Morris as assistant perhaps? Unlikely he will get another head coach role any time soon given the weak clubs all sacked and replaced their coaches recently. ExWests Tigers player

 

[Harvey]

Madge was the perfect coach with the Cleary team he inherited.

Lots of vets, many felt betrayed...the motivational / hard man stuff worked well and he got us within one game of the finals. I think he suits that kind of scenario. For that team, he was the perfect fit.

But, with a young team that needs coaching...and real game plans...and improvement...and tactical nous...and in game coaching that works...and real defensive structures...Madge is not the man. He is not 'that' type of coach.

John Morris as assistant perhaps? Unlikely he will get another head coach role any time soon given the weak clubs all sacked and replaced their coaches recently. ExWests Tigers player

I don't think Madge hires competent coaches as assistants, fears that they have an eye on his job.

 

[earl]

Madge has rebuilt two clubs - the job appears to be bigger here. Give him till the end of next year

I think we stick with what we have until their contracts run out and then evaluate from there. I don't believe our squad is that bad and we are looking better in relation to the cap.

We can't have Madge though go out and make stupid signings.

I don't believe we should sack Madge but I think he should be taking some accountability. These guys aren't performing to their potential.

 

[earl]

**“We can’t run onto the field and neither can Madge.
“It’s not his job to make tackles and catch the football.**

I hate these types of quotes from higher ups who don't understand the game.

"The coach can't run on the field"...really, that is all you have got? Yes, he can't run on the field **but he can get the team ready so they don't constantly come out flat. This has happened multiple times**

"It is not his job to tackle and catch"..**.but it is his job to teach them how to tackle, implement structures, and jump / protect on kicks.**

I don't want him sacked but he isn't doing a good job right now. It's his job to pick the right players and ensure those players are doing their jobs.

I can't single out specific players as being the problem each game. It honestly looks like a coaching issue. He has to somehow get more out of the team.