Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Cultured_Bogan]

IF Ciraldo came here, we all do realise that the moment Ivan were to leave Penrith, he would absolutely jump ship back to them without hesitation. Ciraldo is not the man we should be looking at.
May very well be the perfect style of coach for us, but the wrong man and the wrong time.

So you think Cleary is more likely to be sacked before Ciraldo if he were to come here?

Media fabrication, Cleary won’t be sacked. Not while his son is there

I highly disagree. They won't throw away this generation of players to keep the halfback happy. If Penrith lose this weekend and they bundle out early again next year, I reckon it's a very good chance Ivan is "tired" again. They will want a premiership in the next 3 years.

 

[BAGNF05]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

You said people ***always*** go onto bigger things. I corrected you and said the majority dont and its true. Here are 25 without even going into the past, there are many more.

Tyson Gamble
Bailey Sironen
Sam McIntyre
Ava Seumanafugai
Jeremy Marshall King
Esan Marsters
Kane Bradley
Siteleki Akauola
Blake Ayshford
Ahmad Bajouri
Nick Bradley Koala
Mitch Brown
Josh Drinkwater
Geoff Daniela
JJ Felise
Asipeli Fine
Mahe Fonua
James Gavet
Tim Grant
Matt Groat
Tom Humble
Jack Littlejohn
Tui Lolohea
Kyle Lovett
Jacob Miller

I was responding to someone who said Madge would never get another job. Clubs understand we were a basket case well before Madge. But yes, if you take what I said literally, it was wrong.

You were responding to me, and have provided 1 coach who got another job, I don't know why you keep raising players as it is irrelevant to the conversation. The only coach that got another job quit before his reputation was ruined.

Point is. People won’t judge you if you failed at Wests Tigers, they’ll put their arm around you and understand that you were a poor sucker in a horrible spot, be that a player or a coach. Taylor went on to work at the Roosters, Potter to coach Fiji with great success. Sure there’s only 16 NRL head coaching jobs, 5-6 that are worthwhile career options, so Madge probably won’t get one of those lucrative jobs. We can agree on that.

And my point is coaching Wests Tigers is an NRL career killer, am I wrong?

Unless your sheens

Haha, I can see the fox headlines now. Pascoe hires Taylor as GM to end 25 year finals drought.

 

[cochise]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

You said people ***always*** go onto bigger things. I corrected you and said the majority dont and its true. Here are 25 without even going into the past, there are many more.

Tyson Gamble
Bailey Sironen
Sam McIntyre
Ava Seumanafugai
Jeremy Marshall King
Esan Marsters
Kane Bradley
Siteleki Akauola
Blake Ayshford
Ahmad Bajouri
Nick Bradley Koala
Mitch Brown
Josh Drinkwater
Geoff Daniela
JJ Felise
Asipeli Fine
Mahe Fonua
James Gavet
Tim Grant
Matt Groat
Tom Humble
Jack Littlejohn
Tui Lolohea
Kyle Lovett
Jacob Miller

I was responding to someone who said Madge would never get another job. Clubs understand we were a basket case well before Madge. But yes, if you take what I said literally, it was wrong.

You were responding to me, and have provided 1 coach who got another job, I don't know why you keep raising players as it is irrelevant to the conversation. The only coach that got another job quit before his reputation was ruined.

Point is. People won’t judge you if you failed at Wests Tigers, they’ll put their arm around you and understand that you were a poor sucker in a horrible spot, be that a player or a coach. Taylor went on to work at the Roosters, Potter to coach Fiji with great success. Sure there’s only 16 NRL head coaching jobs, 5-6 that are worthwhile career options, so Madge probably won’t get one of those lucrative jobs. We can agree on that.

And my point is coaching Wests Tigers is an NRL career killer, am I wrong?

Unless your sheens

Killed his NRL coaching career as well, though he may yet pull a Lazurus.

 

[GCfan]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

 

[cochise]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

It is why I would lean to punting him though, as even though I think he has the right intentions and wants to set us up for long term success, I don't think he is the person to deliver that to the club.

 

[851]

Has he been sacked yet

😛ray:

 

[BAGNF05]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

If true then Lee needs to stop going on about how great our roster is and how WT have underachieved so much. Madge started to change the narrative around patience and young guys this year but Lee has come in and gone no thanks.

 

[cochise]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

If true then Lee needs to stop going on about how great our roster is and how WT have underachieved so much. Madge started to change the narrative around patience and young guys this year but Lee has come in and gone no thanks.

There definitely is a long term strategy in place, that for the most part is working. The issue has been trying to supplement that strategy to gain short term success as well, we have gambled in that area and the gambles have not paid off. The positive is that there has not been a negative impact of the long term strategy.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

You said people ***always*** go onto bigger things. I corrected you and said the majority dont and its true. Here are 25 without even going into the past, there are many more.

Tyson Gamble
Bailey Sironen
Sam McIntyre
Ava Seumanafugai
Jeremy Marshall King
Esan Marsters
Kane Bradley
Siteleki Akauola
Blake Ayshford
Ahmad Bajouri
Nick Bradley Koala
Mitch Brown
Josh Drinkwater
Geoff Daniela
JJ Felise
Asipeli Fine
Mahe Fonua
James Gavet
Tim Grant
Matt Groat
Tom Humble
Jack Littlejohn
Tui Lolohea
Kyle Lovett
Jacob Miller

I was responding to someone who said Madge would never get another job. Clubs understand we were a basket case well before Madge. But yes, if you take what I said literally, it was wrong.

You were responding to me, and have provided 1 coach who got another job, I don't know why you keep raising players as it is irrelevant to the conversation. The only coach that got another job quit before his reputation was ruined.

Point is. People won’t judge you if you failed at Wests Tigers, they’ll put their arm around you and understand that you were a poor sucker in a horrible spot, be that a player or a coach. Taylor went on to work at the Roosters, Potter to coach Fiji with great success. Sure there’s only 16 NRL head coaching jobs, 5-6 that are worthwhile career options, so Madge probably won’t get one of those lucrative jobs. We can agree on that.

And my point is coaching Wests Tigers is an NRL career killer, am I wrong?

Unless your sheens

Killed his NRL coaching career as well, though he may yet pull a Lazurus.

As long as it's not Blake Lazarus, he was the noughties version of Russ Packer. Money for nothing?

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

Out of that list though there would only be perhaps 5 that are genuine topline players who make a difference to their current teams. Sirro, McIntyre and Suli would be lucky to have played 10 games this year between them. Not really huge losses to have let slip through the net IMO.
I somewhat get your point, but players going on to "bigger and better things" in most of these cases just equates to them going to stronger clubs. Noffa or Brooks would go alright playing for Storm, Panthers, Souths, Manly or Roosters too.

 

[Fade.To.Black]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

Out of that list though there would only be perhaps 5 that are genuine topline players who make a difference to their current teams. Sirro, McIntyre and Suli would be lucky to have played 10 games this year between them. Not really huge losses to have let slip through the net IMO.
I somewhat get your point, but players going on to "bigger and better things" in most of these cases just equates to them going to stronger clubs. Noffa or Brooks would go alright playing for Storm, Panthers, Souths, Manly or Roosters too.

Strength and depth of roster more so than individual players lighting the comp up.

 

[The_Patriot]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

What’s to be happy about? This club has destroyed his reputation. He only has one way out and that’s to somehow get us playing finals. That’s if the club doesn’t sack him, which if they do, he’s cooked. He’ll never get another head coaching role again.

I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. ***People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better,*** you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.

Ummmmmm Wayne Pearce, Terry Lamb, Michael Potter and Jason Taylor wave hello.

They’re not at our club so by definition they are somewhere bigger and better, we’re a tier above Centrelink

At the risk of sounding like the daily Telegraph, I could name a full team of former Wests Tigers players in top eight teams, including a coach and bench. They say hi.

Is Madge a player?

Did you read my post or just the ones after it?

I read the post I responded to

"*I think Madge has a fine reputation in the game having brought success back to Souths. People always leave WT and go on to bigger and better, you only have to look at how many former Tigers are playing/coaching in the finals.*"

In a thread about coaching. "People **always** leave WT and go on to bigger and better,"

In a thread about coaching I pointed out that all but one of our coaches went onto to nothing.

If you want to talk about players, the VAST majority of players that leave Tigers dont go onto bigger and better. A small number have.

People can be players too

1. Teddy - finals
2. Thompson - finals
3. Momorovski - finals
4. Suli - finals
5. Addo carr - finals
6. Marshall- finals
7. Moses - finals
8. Aloiai - finals
9. Grant - finals
10. Tapau - finals
11. Sironen - finals
12. Matterson - finals
13. Brown - finals

14. Paseka - finals
15. McIntyre - finals
16. Papenhuysen - finals
17. Eisenhuth - finals

Coach : Cleary
Water boy: Robbo

People go onto bigger things when they leave WT.

Sorry for stealing your material Daily Telegraph

Makes for sobering reading doesnt it.

 

[supercoach]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

Could be a good solution for all parties. Madge tells the media he is not going to coach having Sheens on top of him, so he quits. In the background on the quite a settlement is reached. Madge is not sacked, so his reputation is not tarnished and we get a new coach

I don't care how we get to having a new coach, as long as we get there in the next month

I think we need it sorted in two weeks max. Contracted players will be getting released and coming onto the market soon as clubs re gig their rosters for 2022 and we need to have a coach bedded down to have any chance in the market place

 

[Needaname]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

If true then Lee needs to stop going on about how great our roster is and how WT have underachieved so much. Madge started to change the narrative around patience and young guys this year but Lee has come in and gone no thanks.

There definitely is a long term strategy in place, that for the most part is working. The issue has been trying to supplement that strategy to gain short term success as well, we have gambled in that area and the gambles have not paid off. The positive is that there has not been a negative impact of the long term strategy.

I agree. I know I bang on about Penrith but I regularly look at things without my Black White and Gold glasses on. So I’m often looking at patterns at rival clubs to see what they do well and don’t do well.
And in terms of Penrith I feel it is a great team of which to compare our standings two.
Both teams had success in 2010.
Penrith however went backwards quickly coming 12th following year whereas in 2011 we made the top 4. Penrith brought in Gus mid year at first I believe as a consultant whom quickly reported that they have the wrong coach in the side for success. Later Elliot sacked and the rebuild began. Ivan was signed to start in 2013 and Penrith were set to have Georgalis caretaker for the 2012 year. However Warriors pushed Ivan out and they were able to start their rebuild in 2012.
At the time despite the great success in 2010 Penrith like the Tigers were still considered the little fish in the large pond. Parramatta, Bulldogs had a much larger support base and higher profile. Penrith knew they needed to improve. We on the other hand.
2012 for us was a year of infighting in the playing group and the staffing.
And it ended in us sacking our most experienced head of our football department and employing a rookie coach but despite of that we finished 2012 just shy of the finals.
We may of not been as much of a perceived basket case as Penrith on the field with the Panthers moving on 3 high profile juniors, recruiting quite literally a bus of recruits to start 2013 and finishing 2012 a couple of wins short of spoon.
Penrith were starting to make inroads off the field but we were still in front in terms of on field success.
From 2013 the fortunes on the field started to reverse but off the field we were slipping away in comparison at a rate of knots.
2013: Penrith 10th, we are 15th
2014: Penrith 4th, we are 13th
2015: Penrith 11th, we are 15th
2016: Penrith 6th, we are 9th
2017: Penrith 7th, we are 14th
2018: Penrith 5th, we are 9th
2019: Penrith 10, we are 9th
2020: Penrith 1st, we are 11th
2021: Penrith 2nd, we are 13th.

This is an article interview I found about Gus at the Panthers mid 2015.

Worth a read.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/phil-gould-reveals-plan-to-quit-role-as-penrith-panthers-general-manager/news-story/c927ac0d6d72e9f42cdab6c643f11100?device=MOBILE&editiondata=none&from=public_rss&fromakamai=true&pt=none&wpa=BB44D82C3D7223D393F2AE47579FB5EA6791ABE4

 

[jirskyr]

Sirro, McIntyre and Suli would be lucky to have played 10 games this year between them. Not really huge losses to have let slip through the net IMO.

I agree. The list was interesting until Moses Suli and Matt Eisenhuth were listed as going on to better things. You could take any club and find scores of players who have played finals after leaving, but that doesn't mean they got better as footballers.

 

[clontarfkid]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

If true then Lee needs to stop going on about how great our roster is and how WT have underachieved so much. Madge started to change the narrative around patience and young guys this year but Lee has come in and gone no thanks.

There definitely is a long term strategy in place, that for the most part is working. The issue has been trying to supplement that strategy to gain short term success as well, we have gambled in that area and the gambles have not paid off. The positive is that there has not been a negative impact of the long term strategy.

Think we all believe long term success doesnt reconcile with going backwards for 3 consecutive seasons..maybe 4

 

[cochise]

Very good news that Sheens will be the head coach with Maguire as the figurehead coach.
Congratulations to the club. With Sheens heading the coaching I have hope again.
Well done to Maguire for accepting the demotion to figurehead. it can't be easy.
We should all now get behind Sheens and the club and move into our improving future.

Wow that’s a winning move from the club if that’s the case ,Sheens head coach .. Maguire figurehead coach ? the new position created by the review board to cover everyone’s failures .
Well I suppose it’s like 6 home grounds now the board are collecting coaches you do not want to pay one out so you employ another only at the Tigers ??

We still need to get pascoe, Lee and hartigan away from first grade recruitment.

Hartigan needs to have final say on recruitment, with a little guidance from Sheens.

And surely with guidance from Madge as well Cochise.
He is the Head Coach, so surely he gets a say in who he feels he can best work with.

Should be the other way in my opinion.

Why?

I am more talking about as a mentor, I am happy for Madge and Sheens to have input into recruitment decisions, but strongly believe the final decision should rest with Hartigan.

Genuine question. How does that work with the concept of a coach's accountability? I wouldn't want to be accountable if I didn't have final say on my team.

There are not many sports in the world where coaches have final say over the roster.

OK, agree to disagree. From previous posts I believe you are a CEO and I was for 15 years before retiring. In my role I would only accept accountability if I chose my team. You can't do it from day one because there are incumbents but, over time, I chose and shaped my team to produce the best outcomes for my organisation.

A coach is not a ceo though. I am not happy to have the future of the team in the hands of the person that is in the most transitional position in the organisation, a position that is often reliant on short term success, a position that requires no qualifications in financial management. The coach is employed to coach the team, I am happy for him to have input into the roster and who he would like to sign, but after that it is someone else role to manage the squad. I want the team built for the next 10 years and not to maximise the chances of the coach getting an extension. Many coaches sell the future for short term success when handed the keys to a club.

I feel you are being a bit over dramatic when you say "many coaches [your referring to Madge obviously] **sell the future** for short term success **when handed the keys to a club"**.
No one is going to hand Madge the keys. Not you, not me, no one.

I don't think I am being over dramatic, there are plenty of examples of coaches putting clubs in bad financial positions in their attempt to achieve short term success, including at this club. You need to remember that a coach's position is usually dependent on short term success.

therein lies the problem though. KPI’s that aren't aligned in any organisation never deliver the required result. If you have the GM of football with Long term goals and the coach with short term goals you get a mixed outcome. Perhaps the WT are aligned behind closed doors and that’s why Madge may not be punted as they know the long term is what’s required.

If true then Lee needs to stop going on about how great our roster is and how WT have underachieved so much. Madge started to change the narrative around patience and young guys this year but Lee has come in and gone no thanks.

There definitely is a long term strategy in place, that for the most part is working. The issue has been trying to supplement that strategy to gain short term success as well, we have gambled in that area and the gambles have not paid off. The positive is that there has not been a negative impact of the long term strategy.

Think we all believe long term success doesnt reconcile with going backwards for 3 consecutive seasons..maybe 4

Which is why we need a change in the area that is failing.

 

[finnzo]

I’m of the belief Pascoe has to go and Madge stay Pascoe just seems so unprofessional and strange. Madge Cleary knows how to coach at the last two clubs he has been to they have won a comp under him that doesn’t just happen by luck. The club has been a mess long before Madge got here I believe he is trying his hardest to change it but a lot of people around him are just hopeless at there jobs

 

[851]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

Could be a good solution for all parties. Madge tells the media he is not going to coach having Sheens on top of him, so he quits. In the background on the quite a settlement is reached. Madge is not sacked, so his reputation is not tarnished and we get a new coach

I don't care how we get to having a new coach, as long as we get there in the next month

I think we need it sorted in two weeks max. Contracted players will be getting released and coming onto the market soon as clubs re gig their rosters for 2022 and we need to have a coach bedded down to have any chance in the market place

I do agree with that, I just don't want the club to wet their pants and keep Madge on because they couldn't wait 2 or 3 weeks to get who they wanted or needed

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Drawing out the review tells me that we are in talks with ciraldo and trying to get an understanding if he would take the job. It could also be madge blowing up royally about his assistant coaches being removed and having sheens on top of him. If that’s the case they could be negotiating a pay out in the background.

I think it's madge not happy.

Could be a good solution for all parties. Madge tells the media he is not going to coach having Sheens on top of him, so he quits. In the background on the quite a settlement is reached. Madge is not sacked, so his reputation is not tarnished and we get a new coach

I don't care how we get to having a new coach, as long as we get there in the next month

I think we need it sorted in two weeks max. Contracted players will be getting released and coming onto the market soon as clubs re gig their rosters for 2022 and we need to have a coach bedded down to have any chance in the market place

I do agree with that, I just don't want the club to wet their pants and keep Madge on because they couldn't wait 2 or 3 weeks to get who they wanted or needed

Hartigan with assistance from Sheens should be more than capable of dealing with recruitment.