Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[mike]

Madge's position is already untenable.... if the board is split on the decision he should go.

A well run club would not proceed with a coach that half the board want gone, he would be gone end of story, but I did say well run club.

So then how do you read the situation if the board is split on who they replace him with?

I read it as they want Ciraldo, but they are wetting their pants with all the bad media and are second guessing what punting Madge will look like in the media.
A well run club would have another coach lined up, maybe they have I don't know, but they would announce Madge is gone and they thank him but are now moving in another direction.
I just can't see how Madge can stay knowing there are half the board or more who want him sacked, it's untenable now

If they want ciraldo they can just sack madge and say their doing their " due process "

And if Ciraldo falls through? As if that wouldn’t make the media.

You mean if Ciraldo backs out of his agreement with the club? There's way too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

He may have signed a heads of agreement…

Means nothing. Only lays out terms and conditions if he signs. It does not mean in any way shape or form that he will sign.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

So here’s the biggest worry with option A. By keeping him now, our clueless board will expect immediate results next season which is next to no chance of happening with the same squad and coach and if he is sacked at any point for next season, our recruitment for 2023 is ruined before it even starts. We can start recruiting in a months time and no one is going to sign for a club that can’t guarantee its coaches safety, especially if that team is the tigers

I think his position at the club is untenable.

 

[Tiger5150]

Not many (myself included at times) can't stand Gould. But worth a listen re tigers/media imo https://twitter.com/NRLonNine/status/1439924803243286531?s=19

That is a very telling video IMO and says everything about the current situation. I think Gus is being very balanced here.

If you listen to what Chammas is saying and take out all the "Tigers are a disgrace/Tigers are a laughing stock" and listen to what he actually says, there is nothing there that is real."We were told there was going to be a meeting and there wasnt"...boohoo, you were lied to. "We were told that Maguire would be sacked!"....boohoo. There is nothign real in there, only media manufactured fever dreams and the look that Gus gives Chammas at the end of Chamma's diatribe I think shows that Gus knows it too.

Then if you listen to what Gus is actually saying as well, he is saying its a media beat up which of course Chammas tries to defend at the end.

 

[WT2019]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Mate, if Robbie doesnt break his leg a week out, we probably beat Cronulla and make the finals. He went close.

I dont understand the focus on this statement. He very nearly did make the finals with that squad.

Zero chance since

That's kind of my point. He went close in the first year with an inherited squad, but the more time he's been there the worse we've become, even with more influence over recruitment.

The longer he's coached them the worse they've got, Madge hasn't made his mark on the squad at ALL

He's had 3 years now and they look clueless - if a coach can't get a team playing his style of footy within 3 years then there's clearly an issue. They look like a team who's been put together yesterday and had 3 training session

Agree, especially the last sentence. Doesn’t anyone think we will improve on 13th in 2022?

 

[weststigerman]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this is his team.

Then sack Brooks too. Get rid of them both.

We sack Maguire and we're stuck with Brooks. He will have yet another reprieve until at least the end of next season IMO.

Why? They're not linked. The new coach might think he's rubbish.

Potter, JT, Ivan, and Madge have all tried to fix him. He's on a big contract so he's hard to move. The odds are another coach will try and do the same.

Potter and Taylor could not coach
Cleary had Brooks halfvack of the year
Brooks needs a coach
Madge is not it
Hopefully Sheens can assist Brooks in some capacity and also get Andrew or Mathew Johns in to provide some coaching , it has worked ok with Moses

The list of things Brooks “needs” to succeed gets bigger every year.

 

[weststigerman]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this is his team.

Then sack Brooks too. Get rid of them both.

We sack Maguire and we're stuck with Brooks. He will have yet another reprieve until at least the end of next season IMO.

Why? They're not linked. The new coach might think he's rubbish.

Potter, JT, Ivan, and Madge have all tried to fix him. He's on a big contract so he's hard to move. The odds are another coach will try and do the same.

Madge shouldn't have signed him to a 5 year deal.

That we can agree on.

 

[bbobb]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

I think its Sheens' call in all reality.

Does he believe he can work with Madge at the required level to make a difference? If they decide to keep Madge but the relationship between Madge and Sheens is poor, then we will be in a worse position.

If Madge is to remain, his role will change dramatically. Yes he will coach the team but I think he will not have full decision rights on his assistants and the way things are run including player recruitment and retention. Even his methods would be under scrutiny. If he has any sort of ego, this will be a bitter pill to swallow.

In some respects, I think he will need to accept this role as I cannot see him picking up another NRL coaching given his record and demise towards the end at Souths and at Wests.

 

[happy_tiger]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Mate, if Robbie doesnt break his leg a week out, we probably beat Cronulla and make the finals. He went close.

I dont understand the focus on this statement. He very nearly did make the finals with that squad.

Zero chance since

We got beaten by 20 by the Sharks ...a fully fit Robbie wasn't going to make that big a difference

 

[jirskyr]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I think the concept of "the modern game" is a myth and is entirely overused.

How do we define "the modern game"? 2021 only? The past 2 years? The past 3 years? The predicted forthcoming season?

Surely we can argue, given the ARLC's recent affinity for fiddling with the rules, there has scarcely been any sustained period of established rugby league paradigm. It always flips and flops between defence-focused, attack-focused, wrestle-focus, refs heavy touch , refs light touch etc. Part of the beauty of the game is the unpredictable nature of play and which styles dominate in a given season. Part of the frustration of the game is that the controlling body feel compelled to tweak rules to improve the TV spectacle.

However in contrast the the unpredictable football styles, the dominating teams have become all-too predictable - a core 4 or 5 teams for at least a period of 3 to 4 years, with some teams rarely falling out of the top echelon and, by corollary, some teams rarely making it into the top echelon.

I think this is another argument against the concept of "the modern game": if certain clubs are able to maintain a stranglehold on the competition, it argues that the current paradigm / "modern game" is a less relevant predictor than the established flexibility and mental/physical domination of the best sides and coaches.

In other words, the best rosters win regardless of prevailing conditions, because they adapt to those conditions.

And none of this is even considering the long-term impact of COVID, including player bubbles, player mental health, relocations, family separations and lack of lower grade play etc.

There's certainly no argument to support an idea that a younger or newer coach is more "in tune" with the modern game - the most successful coaches (and the ones currently left in season 2021) are also the 3 oldest, barring Ivan Cleary.

There's also an assumption, within the idea of "modern game", that it is predictable, i.e. that the rules and rule interpretations will not change and that most sides will handle those conditions in a similar manner to the previous seasons. Clearly this wildly speculative and the previous seasons have in fact shown great variability in the way the game is played and policed.

Aside, of course, from the fundamentals - that the fastest, strongest, toughest and most skilful sides tend to be the best, regardless of variations in what comprises "the modern game".

So ultimately I think the argument of "a modern game" against a coach, or even for a coach, is misguided. Specific to Madge, I think the history of the Wests Tigers and the known abilities of the current roster are far more predictive than the concept of whether or not Michael Maguire knows and can coach to the prevailing paradigm. Aren't people always telling me that it's a simple game and you just need to bash the opposition?

 

[Tiger5150]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Mate, if Robbie doesnt break his leg a week out, we probably beat Cronulla and make the finals. He went close.

I dont understand the focus on this statement. He very nearly did make the finals with that squad.

Zero chance since

We got beaten by 20 by the Sharks ...a fully fit Robbie wasn't going to make that big a difference

Maybe, maybe not. Point being, we missed the 8 by less than a game.

 

[Krammy]

Potter and Taylor could not coach

Brooks won rookie of the year under potter.

and halfback of the year under Cleary. He can play the game, and he tries hard every week. But he has not progressed since 2018. He alone needs a new coach or a new environment. I believe a new coach, new assistant coaches and Tim Sheens can provide that for him. Time for a decision either way. Yesterday's debacle made us the laughing stock....again.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Potter and Taylor could not coach

Brooks won rookie of the year under potter.

and halfback of the year under Cleary. He can play the game, and he tries hard every week. But he has not progressed since 2018. He alone needs a new coach or a new environment. I believe a new coach, new assistant coaches and Tim Sheens can provide that for him. Time for a decision either way. Yesterday's debacle made us the laughing stock....again.

Won halfback of the year in the season where we scored the least amount of points in a season, and also conceded the least amount of points in a season. Still missed the eight, and only got to 9th on the back of our defence.

 

[jirskyr]

Madge can not stay, simple as that. You can quote past glories or examples all you like but their all anomalies in this instance. Arthur for example at parra, took over when they were wooden spooners, started very slow his first 2-3 years and now they’re a consistent top 6 team. In those troubling years the team improved, we haven’t at all.

This is actually the prime example for the absolute opposite of what you are arguing.

Brad Arthur took over a wooden spoon side and got them to 10th. Then they went 12th and 14th, before coming 4th in his 4th season. They then won another wooden spoon in Arthur's 5th season.

The transition from 16th to 10th is alright, same as Madge initially kept us at 9th in his first year. Madge obviously ran 9th, 11th, 13th - not good, but still it's the EXACT same progression as Brad Arthur, 1 place improved.

So Brad Arthur is the exact example for keeping a coach on despite a progressively worse year-end ladder result. It shows that a coach can in fact radically turn a team's performances around, if he's the right coach and if the club persists with him long enough. Ricky Stuart at Canberra is another example of playing the long-game with an experienced coach, despite early bad results.

In those seasons were they finished poorly they at lest improved as a team and their roster was terrible. In Arthur’s 4th season I’m sure they recruited better than we have madges 4th season

That's all arbitrary and subjective. They did worse on the ladder. The reality is they had points stripped in 2016 but rallied to win a significant number of matches (13) and took that form into 2017. Ultimately it fizzed out rather quickly, with another wooden spoon the year after.

But those are just excuses, and I can also make excuses for Michael Maguire about handicaps that were inherited.

You can make the argument against Madge far more easily without invoking Brad Arthur, who I feels is the poster boy for persisting with a coach despite worsening performances.

 

[TillLindemann]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

So here’s the biggest worry with option A. By keeping him now, our clueless board will expect immediate results next season which is next to no chance of happening with the same squad and coach and if he is sacked at any point for next season, our recruitment for 2023 is ruined before it even starts. We can start recruiting in a months time and no one is going to sign for a club that can’t guarantee its coaches safety, especially if that team is the tigers

I think his position at the club is untenable.

And that's precisely what the leakers were trying to achieve. Those on the board who *want* him gone, tell journalists that he *is* gone, then the media frenzy completely undermines him, and then those very same leakers tell the rest of the board - "See! his position is untenable".

Disgusting behaviour, it's like the worst days of Rudd v Gillard and Abbott v Turnbull.

 

[Needaname]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

I particularly agree. But my two options differ and it centres around Madge.
1. Back him
2. Agree to part.

What the club has planned after that should not factor in the decision.

If they see Madge as part of the solution keep him.
If they see him as part of the problem, remove him.

 

[mike]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

So here’s the biggest worry with option A. By keeping him now, our clueless board will expect immediate results next season which is next to no chance of happening with the same squad and coach and if he is sacked at any point for next season, our recruitment for 2023 is ruined before it even starts. We can start recruiting in a months time and no one is going to sign for a club that can’t guarantee its coaches safety, especially if that team is the tigers

I think his position at the club is untenable.

And that's precisely what the leakers were trying to achieve. Those on the board who *want* him gone, tell journalists that he *is* gone, then the media frenzy completely undermines him, and then those very same leakers tell the rest of the board - "See! his position is untenable".

Disgusting behaviour, it's like the worst days of Rudd v Gillard and Abbott v Turnbull.

Absolutely ?. Disgusting behaviour by certain Board members and it is why we have had very little success in 22 seasons. The Board is the problem.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Madge's position is already untenable.... if the board is split on the decision he should go.

A well run club would not proceed with a coach that half the board want gone, he would be gone end of story, but I did say well run club.

So then how do you read the situation if the board is split on who they replace him with?

I read it as they want Ciraldo, but they are wetting their pants with all the bad media and are second guessing what punting Madge will look like in the media.
A well run club would have another coach lined up, maybe they have I don't know, but they would announce Madge is gone and they thank him but are now moving in another direction.
I just can't see how Madge can stay knowing there are half the board or more who want him sacked, it's untenable now

If they want ciraldo they can just sack madge and say their doing their " due process "

And if Ciraldo falls through? As if that wouldn’t make the media.

You mean if Ciraldo backs out of his agreement with the club? There's way too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

He may have signed a heads of agreement…

Means nothing. Only lays out terms and conditions if he signs. It does not mean in any way shape or form that he will sign.

Sorry, that was tongue in cheek. Referring to the last situation that happened ?

 

[TieDye]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

So here’s the biggest worry with option A. By keeping him now, our clueless board will expect immediate results next season which is next to no chance of happening with the same squad and coach and if he is sacked at any point for next season, our recruitment for 2023 is ruined before it even starts. We can start recruiting in a months time and no one is going to sign for a club that can’t guarantee its coaches safety, especially if that team is the tigers

I think his position at the club is untenable.

And that's precisely what the leakers were trying to achieve. Those on the board who *want* him gone, tell journalists that he *is* gone, then the media frenzy completely undermines him, and then those very same leakers tell the rest of the board - "See! his position is untenable".

Disgusting behaviour, it's like the worst days of Rudd v Gillard and Abbott v Turnbull.

Nail, meet hammer.

 

[mike]

The way I see it the club has two options and everyday they delay making the call the more damage is being done that may be difficult to repair.

Option one…sack Madge and appoint a new coach, and hope like hell the new coach will be able to attract winners and turn the joint around.

Option Two…Keep Madge, get behind him and back him 100%, get him a proven defensive coach as a assistant and get him a attacking coach who also has runs on the board. They also have to make sure Madge is happy to have Sheens over seeing the joint, and if Hartigan is still around, Madge and him have to patch up their working relationship.

Option A looks the easy fix, but sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t, and we have been down this track so many times and got the same result.

I particularly agree. But my two options differ and it centres around Madge.
1. Back him
2. Agree to part.

What the club has planned after that should not factor in the decision.

If they see Madge as part of the solution keep him.
If they see him as part of the problem, remove him.

2. You would hope they had at least lined up
a replacement. It would be pretty stupid to let Maguire go and have no NRL coach who wants to come here for 2022.

 

[Bula]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I think the concept of "the modern game" is a myth and is entirely overused.

How do we define "the modern game"? 2021 only? The past 2 years? The past 3 years? The predicted forthcoming season?

Surely we can argue, given the ARLC's recent affinity for fiddling with the rules, there has scarcely been any sustained period of established rugby league paradigm. It always flips and flops between defence-focused, attack-focused, wrestle-focus, refs heavy touch , refs light touch etc. Part of the beauty of the game is the unpredictable nature of play and which styles dominate in a given season. Part of the frustration of the game is that the controlling body feel compelled to tweak rules to improve the TV spectacle.

However in contrast the the unpredictable football styles, the dominating teams have become all-too predictable - a core 4 or 5 teams for at least a period of 3 to 4 years, with some teams rarely falling out of the top echelon and, by corollary, some teams rarely making it into the top echelon.

I think this is another argument against the concept of "the modern game": if certain clubs are able to maintain a stranglehold on the competition, it argues that the current paradigm / "modern game" is a less relevant predictor than the established flexibility and mental/physical domination of the best sides and coaches.

In other words, the best rosters win regardless of prevailing conditions, because they adapt to those conditions.

And none of this is even considering the long-term impact of COVID, including player bubbles, player mental health, relocations, family separations and lack of lower grade play etc.

There's certainly no argument to support an idea that a younger or newer coach is more "in tune" with the modern game - the most successful coaches (and the ones currently left in season 2021) are also the 3 oldest, barring Ivan Cleary.

There's also an assumption, within the idea of "modern game", that it is predictable, i.e. that the rules and rule interpretations will not change and that most sides will handle those conditions in a similar manner to the previous seasons. Clearly this wildly speculative and the previous seasons have in fact shown great variability in the way the game is played and policed.

Aside, of course, from the fundamentals - that the fastest, strongest, toughest and most skilful sides tend to be the best, regardless of variations in what comprises "the modern game".

So ultimately I think the argument of "a modern game" against a coach, or even for a coach, is misguided. Specific to Madge, I think the history of the Wests Tigers and the known abilities of the current roster are far more predictive than the concept of whether or not Michael Maguire knows and can coach to the prevailing paradigm. Aren't people always telling me that it's a simple game and you just need to bash the opposition?

Before he died, The Don was asked if he would score as many runs in "the modern game". His answer went something along the lines of '''No, I wouldn't. Back then the pitches were flatter, the outfields were quicker and the bowlers didnt watch videos of you. But I would still score more runs than the next bloke." Winners gonna win. Losers gonna lose.