Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Tiger5150]

I wonder what Madge is making of all this?

Is it all worth it?

Granted the club hasn’t actually said anything, but they have let the journo’s run him down without any protection.

His stress levels must be through the roof, hopefully they have spoken to him privately with there thoughts otherwise he might just tell them to go to hell.

Well he can’t be thinking that he has done a wonderful job to date. Surely he can’t be thinking that he has improved the team.

Madge was here to fix the culture and weed out the bad eggs, unfortunately it looks like the bad eggs are going to win as everyone is too impatient to see it through

It’s not a lack of patience, I don’t think anyone could accuse WT fans of having no patience. It’s about his coaching ability. Our defence has progressively worsened each year since he arrived. That’s not the boards fault or Pascoes fault, that’s his fault.

You could extend him for 10 years and it wouldn’t make no difference. His coaching style doesn’t work anymore and he can’t adapt. He’s done.

Also, the comment about him coming on board to fix the culture and weed out the bad eggs is rubbish. That’s a recent narrative that was created to excuse his failures. He said he could make finals with the squad he had. Ironically I also think he’s managed to make the culture worse which is an achievement in itself.

Completely disagree, I think it’s 100% lack of patience. Everyone knows Madges style being a hard trainer and tough etc. similar to Bellamy. That’s what the club needed and still does need in my opinion. The only difference now is the problem players or bad eggs are pushing back because they are being challenged to improve and it’s making them uncomfortable. They would prefer to sack the coach and have a few more years leeway before any pressure is applied again.

Is that why they cant tackle? Or the same gaps open in defence with the same regularity every game?

 

[Tiger5150]

Wonder what dramas today will bring....

Imagined and manufactures dramas.

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I disagree. I believe with the right support around him & an incoming Tim Sheens, Madge can coach to the modern game. His squad has lacked experience & some of the ingredients I mentioned above to execute what he wants effectively.

 

[Tiger5150]

Does the rules actually stipulate that an NRL team have a coach ?
I’d just let the players coach themselves.

Hahah yeah.

"Here you go fellas, you have a crack this year, and if you don't make the eight, you're all out the door!"

I think I like that idea.

Can you imagine all 17 at post game pressers .......they'd be throwing each other under the bus lol

"IT was the A & B Defenders...."

 

[avocadoontoast]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I disagree. I believe with the right support around him & an incoming Tim Sheens, Madge can coach to the modern game. His squad has lacked experience & some of the ingredients I mentioned above to execute what he wants effectively.

He's had three years to show us something. He's been given a fair chance, it's time for him to go imo.

 

[cochise]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I disagree. I believe with the right support around him & an incoming Tim Sheens, Madge can coach to the modern game. His squad has lacked experience & some of the ingredients I mentioned above to execute what he wants effectively.

What makes you think that?

 

[Tiger5150]

We, the fans deserve better ***than this.***

Better than what?

What is the club doing RIGHT NOW that they shouldnt be doing?

OF all the things that people are wetting their pants about right now, how much of it has come from the club and how much has been manufactured by media or other fans?

 

[TheDaBoss]

Drag it out longer so this thread passes the LM thread lol

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

One of the best suggestions (well it was actually someone who emailed him) that Paul Kent has made was getting Alastair Clarkson as an independent consultant. He is a winner, knows how to innovate in modern sport (actually brought in elements of soccer & hockey into AFL) & is HUGE on culture & development. Look at how he took Hawthorn from a shambles in 2004 to one of the most successful sporting franchises of the modern era ... firstly getting buy-in to a 'family culture' with a young squad in 2005.

 

[tigeress]

We, the fans deserve better ***than this.***


Better than what?

What is the club doing RIGHT NOW that they shouldnt be doing?

OF all the things that people are wetting their pants about right now, how much of it has come from the club and how much has been manufactured by media or other fans?

Yes but no matter where it comes from it is doing more harm than good-this is just becoming a media circus which is a bad look for the club:angry:

 

[Tiger5150]

I just want to state my position here fairly clearly as the absolutes that some madge supporters are speaking is getting to me and causing me to be hyperbolic and arrogant in my posting (that is on me).

I do not believe that Madge is the only problem in the club, the problems are many and complex. The NRL level coaching at this club is not up to standard, our defensive and offensive structure have not been up to standard and are getting worse. We conceded an average of 30 points a game this season, when I watched games I could not see what we were trying to do to win the game, how we were attacking oppositions weaknesses. It was non existent, the way we tried to play did not suit the modern game under the 6 again rules.

Our roster is weak and mentally soft, we need an overall in senior players to better support the youth we have coming through. That has started with Mbye leaving, a few more need to follow.

We have a major issue in the set up of our club at board level, the board is dysfunctional, split, leaks like a sieve and has a real lack of transparency and accountability. This needs to change but it is not an overnight change, it could literally take years. I have ideas to improve in that area but it is not something we can change overnight.

There are however green shoots in our club, the COE and planned Academy in the MacArthur region, the investment in pathways and renewed focus on development. Our lower grade success shows that this strategy is starting to produce, we need to make the right decisions at that level right now though.

A lot of the change we need to make is going to take time, potentially years for some of. An area we can make a change right now is the poor coaching at the NRL level, that doesn't mean that other changes are not needed. It is just something that is seriously wrong at the club that we can act on now.

Great post

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Yes. It’s how successful people think. That’s not to say they cant fail along the way.

 

[cochise]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Yes. It’s how successful people think. That’s not to say they cant fail along the way.

Yes, but they can be held accountable for those failures.

 

[Needaname]

I wonder what Madge is making of all this?

Is it all worth it?

Granted the club hasn’t actually said anything, but they have let the journo’s run him down without any protection.

His stress levels must be through the roof, hopefully they have spoken to him privately with there thoughts otherwise he might just tell them to go to hell.

Well he can’t be thinking that he has done a wonderful job to date. Surely he can’t be thinking that he has improved the team.

Madge was here to fix the culture and weed out the bad eggs, unfortunately it looks like the bad eggs are going to win as everyone is too impatient to see it through

Yeah I don’t recall anyone saying he was here to fix our defence. Cleary did that in his second season but all our attack went out the window.
I’d argue we were playing more dour football under him.
Side note Madge and Cleary both finished their seasons on roughly the same ppg conceded with roughly the same team. And as I pointed out in another post it was the Penalty crackdown that gave Cleary an edge with the team start of 2018. Once the NRL stopped pinging the teams for everything by mid year the Tigers and Cleary were no longer able to use that as a strategy to slow down the big teams.
Have a listen to the press conference comments from Bellamy and Cam Smith after our second win v Melbourne for some perspective. “The slowest game I’ve ever been involved in” I Believe he said. “Just couldn’t get any rhythm” granted it was a good tactic. But unfortunately once it was found out their wasn’t a re engineering of the tactics. Ivan just threw more money at the problem by purchasing Mbye.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I disagree. I believe with the right support around him & an incoming Tim Sheens, Madge can coach to the modern game. His squad has lacked experience & some of the ingredients I mentioned above to execute what he wants effectively.

He's had three years to show us something. He's been given a fair chance, it's time for him to go imo.

He did show us something - decreasing performances, bad recruitment, ordinary coaching staff, terrible retention choices, shocking nrl experienced recruiting and his inability to motivate the team.

People keep saying give him time to get rid of the deadwood - what deadwood? Nofa, Brooks, Lids?? He extended all of them, they have all changed there playing style dramatically under Madge as well - its not as though they don’t listen to him. He got rid of Matto, Momo and Josh - all who couldn’t play for him but good enough for top 4 teams. Momo was shifted to Melb and Panthers. Good enough for both top 2 sides. We already had Laurie wrapped up for 2022 with 2 flops of centers Madge recruited but still said goodbye.

Madge has has 3yrs, he has $1.5m to spend next year, we have struggled all year with clear roster issues & he has zero players signed for next year. He has no pulling power that makes players go - yes I want to play for you.

We can blame things on others which there are others at the club that must go but the fact is Madge isn’t the right fit for the wests tigers.

 

[Tiger-ferret]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Yes. It’s how successful people think. That’s not to say they cant fail along the way.

Yes, but they can be held accountable for those failures.

Of course. I just disagree with how it’s been handled.
To drag it through the media (no matter what side you align with) IMO is grubby.

 

[Tiger5150]

I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble

Good well thought out post however IMO everything you have written down to the point I snipped your post is an explanation of why they SHOULD sack Madge. All those good things in place are independent of Madge and as you correctly say, we only have a few key parts to assemble...the most important being coach.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Yes. It’s how successful people think. That’s not to say they cant fail along the way.

Exactly. He's failed. He thought he could get the team into the finals but he couldn't. In fact, he made them worse. And because he failed at what he was brought on to do, he should be sacked.

 

[cochise]

Do you think that this is all media attempting to fast track outcomes for their own attention seeking spin that the Tigers should come out strongly to rebuff and condemn this behavior or just remain quiet and get on with the review in their own time

No they are being fed by people in the Tigers covering their tracks in the organisation. Like here it’s turned into a sack Madge discussion. Exactly what it’s designed to do. Distract from the ineptitude of people actually running the club.
People are diminishing the brand of the Tigers to cover their back sides and blaming the coach.

It’s not being spun it’s being fed. People can work out who’s playing the games it’s not Madge to a fault he’s straight down the line with most things.

If they are going to sack him do it already the brand damage of letting the media run with this is worse. They need to be sacked immediately.

The self interest in our club is astonishing. Blame the bloke whose been here 3 years when we were a massive rabble when he arrived. Nothing to see here!! Did Madge hire Cleary? Fail to retain Cleary? Fail to retain multiple dally m medal winners? Sign Packer, Ballin, Anasta, Reynolds, Mbye? No. The lunatics are free in the asylum.

I'd say self interest is certainly a factor. With the Board apparently divided, with the playing group apparently divided and now the supporter base on this forum divided, Maguire needs to fall on his sword if he cares about the club. He's failed and it's time to go.

We need to start healing and that cannot begin until he has departed.

Oh, good grief ...spare us, please. Start "healing"? Seriously?? When a significant proportion of fans and members are pointing the finger at the CEO/Chair/Board and their incompetence and want Maguire retained?

What you're really saying is that your credibility on here is so dependent on Maguie being punted that you're becoming impatient waiting for it to happen.

The obfuscation is outrageous. Stop deflecting and deal with the issue of Maguire failing.

I don't play the man (or woman) so I won't comment on your last paragraph.

While you don't seem to attribute Club leadership and management as having any influence in Maguire "failing", then you're going to be disappointed in 2022 and beyond with whomever the new coach is as they will be "failing" too if those same structural and leadership issues remain as they are, in my opinion.

Our appalling defence for example is Maguire. Conceding 30 points a game and players not knowing what they are supposed to be doing. We're so passive in defence. He's only had 3 years to "fix it" and you want to give him another 2 years?

We've steadily regressed over the last three years. That is also entirely on Maguire.

It is time for a new coach, new ideas, a much improved defence and some hope for the future.

For two years Maguires squad was hamstrung by players taking up the majority of cap space who contributed squat. No coach can have success where your highest paid players don't contribute.
All week we have been listening to the poor Roosters with so much of their cap on the sideline yet they still fielded a team with Teddy Radley JWH Tupuonia Crichton - and got 42 points put on them. For us to get just two of those players would blow our cap out of the water and yet that is their weak side. Any of those players in our team on any given week would have significantly improved our performance. That is what our club competes against and that impacts on the coach.

Maguire was never going to be able to turn things around on the field for us individually in three years even your man Cleary said it would take 5 or so years.
This year's side is full of inconsistencies because of their youth, inexperience and lack of leadership on the field. They finished where most predicted and based on the rosters of the sides above them you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could argue that we have a better squad.
Maguire has not got results and will be the fall guy but he is not the singular reason for our results this year, and your failure to acknowledge that is tiresome. Add to that the lack of respect our club has shown him in recent days, is a reflection of why this club is in the position we are in and why we are consistently in a holding pattern.

Madge said he could win with the squad he had?

And Luke Brooks has said this his team.

So sack them both, that is what happens when people set targets that they don not reach.

There seems to be only one head on the chopping block - yet accountability for continual failure at the club seems to escape some more than others.

Because he needs to be the 1st domino to fall. Hopefully the next coach doesn't need to lie to get the job.

What was the lie?

That he said he could get the existing roster to finals

IMO having belief in yourself and a bunch of young athletes, so called professionals, however ignorant or ill placed, is hardly lying.

But he's changed that narrative. For the first two years he said he could get the club to finals. Now this year when he got under pressure he came out with the "not my roster" line.

I just think that calling him a lier suggests he intentionally deceived which is not what I think his narrative is about. I honestly think he loves the club and is doing everything he can to make it better.

So do you think he genuinely believed he could get the squad into the finals? He may love the club but he loves his job more. His experience of being white anted at Souths led him to surrounding himself with incompetent assistants here who were no threat to him. That was not in the best interests of the club.

Yes. It’s how successful people think. That’s not to say they cant fail along the way.

Yes, but they can be held accountable for those failures.

Of course. I just disagree with how it’s been handled.
To drag it through the media (no matter what side you align with) IMO is grubby.

I agree with that, he deserves respect.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

If Brooks was going to be something, it would have happened by now. There's four or five players who should immediately follow Madge out the door.

At least.

There's more, but most of them are already going (Mbye, Walters, Packer, BJ, MCK.) At least another four I can think of at the top of my head who should go immediately with them.

Brooks, Nofoaluma, Mikaele, Tamou. Liddle gets a reprieve as Simpkin is not ready to play 80.