Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

@jd-tiger said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477466) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477374) said:
@bula said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477370) said:
@jirskyr said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477351) said:
@blackwhitegold said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477295) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477264) said:
@blackwhitegold said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477258) said:
I understand there is a lot at play in this decision but I reckon the Board needs to show some backbone in backing in Madge. He has been all about the future, fixing the player contract mess & setting us for long-term success. Fans & media get so fixated on the 'now' but should be looking at where we are heading.

1) Look at our Jersey Flegg result this season (and the potential Panthers-like era we could have if we keep these mates together)
2) Look at our recent junior recruitment (Simpkin, Saukurus, Fautimaus etc)
3) Look at our junior stars coming through (Solomone Saukuru, Brandon Tumeth, Justin Matamua to name a few)
4) Look at our good buys in recent seasons (Utoikamanu, Blore, Doeuhi, Laurie, Maumolo, Tuilagi, Simpkins)

To me our team has only a few key parts of the puzzle to assemble (2-3 players with leadership, experience, intensity & aggression in forward pack & halves; some x-factor with strong defence in the backline; and some good assistant coaching support for Madge). We have Sheens, Hastings, Gildart coming in which can all be positives.

Don't get sucked in by the media's focus on headlines & creating disunity.

We need to stay true & let Madge see out his contract. Otherwise the vicious circle starts again!

Keeping Madge for 2 more years will destroy the club to the point of no return. We need someone who can attract players, coach well or preferably both. His last 5 seasons have proven he can't coach in the modern game.

I think the concept of "the modern game" is a myth and is entirely overused.

How do we define "the modern game"? 2021 only? The past 2 years? The past 3 years? The predicted forthcoming season?

Surely we can argue, given the ARLC's recent affinity for fiddling with the rules, there has scarcely been any sustained period of established rugby league paradigm. It always flips and flops between defence-focused, attack-focused, wrestle-focus, refs heavy touch , refs light touch etc. Part of the beauty of the game is the unpredictable nature of play and which styles dominate in a given season. Part of the frustration of the game is that the controlling body feel compelled to tweak rules to improve the TV spectacle.

However in contrast the the unpredictable football styles, the dominating teams have become all-too predictable - a core 4 or 5 teams for at least a period of 3 to 4 years, with some teams rarely falling out of the top echelon and, by corollary, some teams rarely making it into the top echelon.

I think this is another argument against the concept of "the modern game": if certain clubs are able to maintain a stranglehold on the competition, it argues that the current paradigm / "modern game" is a less relevant predictor than the established flexibility and mental/physical domination of the best sides and coaches.

In other words, the best rosters win regardless of prevailing conditions, because they adapt to those conditions.

And none of this is even considering the long-term impact of COVID, including player bubbles, player mental health, relocations, family separations and lack of lower grade play etc.

There's certainly no argument to support an idea that a younger or newer coach is more "in tune" with the modern game - the most successful coaches (and the ones currently left in season 2021) are also the 3 oldest, barring Ivan Cleary.

There's also an assumption, within the idea of "modern game", that it is predictable, i.e. that the rules and rule interpretations will not change and that most sides will handle those conditions in a similar manner to the previous seasons. Clearly this wildly speculative and the previous seasons have in fact shown great variability in the way the game is played and policed.

Aside, of course, from the fundamentals - that the fastest, strongest, toughest and most skilful sides tend to be the best, regardless of variations in what comprises "the modern game".

So ultimately I think the argument of "a modern game" against a coach, or even for a coach, is misguided. Specific to Madge, I think the history of the Wests Tigers and the known abilities of the current roster are far more predictive than the concept of whether or not Michael Maguire knows and can coach to the prevailing paradigm. Aren't people always telling me that it's a simple game and you just need to bash the opposition?

Before he died, The Don was asked if he would score as many runs in "the modern game". His answer went something along the lines of '''No, I wouldn't. Back then the pitches were flatter, the outfields were quicker and the bowlers didnt watch videos of you. But I would still score more runs than the next bloke." Winners gonna win. Losers gonna lose.

I dont think this is a real quote for many reasons.

Firstly the pitches werent flatter, they played on unprotected pitches that were much harder to bat on than the current roads, the outfields werent faster.

The quote I have read attributed to him went along the lines of, "these days they have video analysis, professional training, but of course I m 80 years old"

Apologies 5150, I down voted you on this one, and I'll tell you why.

Fair enough you're giving an opinion, but what are you saying? That you don't think the original quote was real? It was included with the proviso that the quote went something like this, admitting that it isn't word for word. I don't know what your basis is for the quote to be determined as 'real', but the gist was the same from what I could see. Whether the pitches were flat or outfield fast, it doesn't matter, the message was that different factors in a different time would make a different situation. The specifics really didn't matter to that in this context.

Yeah, yeah fair enough. All fair comments. I totally understand that what you were say was the "gist" of what he was saying and as you correctly point out, not that different to my version of the quote.

100% not having a crack at you or questioning your integrity at all. I just knew he couldnt have said that as it was typed because those two things are the opposite of the case and The Don would have known that. I didnt mean to detract from the meaning of the quote the way you phrased it.

Another part of why I jumped in is because as I remember the quote (there was quite likely more than one) it was very clever the way Don phrased it because his answer was well designed to set up all the differences in the modern game and then drop the "of course Im 80years old"

I don't see the value in your commenting that the paraphrased quote provided wasn't real, when what you provided as the real one had the same general gist.

Is it being argumentative, a stickler for the absolute truth, or did I miss something?

Definitely not the first, hopefully not the second, maybe something else. Didnt mean to detract from your post.
 
@thedaboss said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477495) said:
![images (27).jpeg](/assets/uploads/files/1632198299599-images-27.jpeg)

My man the bOss. top tier poster.
 
@avocadoontoast said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477470) said:
Madge has survived. What a joke of a club.

Good …. Great result!
The Club stays strong.
Bad luck son …. back to your back yard garden stuff.
 
Bloody embarrassing decision from the most cowardly and incompetent board in the sport. Changed their mind to appease the deadshit media and a bunch of sookie old fans to just delay the inevitable a few months. This club will definitely sack Madge in the next 12 months and then we are really stuffed.

Also has the coaching staff not been let go ? That should’ve been front page news if so
 
@the_patriot said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477523) said:
I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

Share the same thoughts
 
@the_patriot said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477523) said:
I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already
 
On the phone shortly to cancel 12 premium membership .. the club is a failure and run by self serving individuals good luck with all of that ..3 seasons of failure how much FAILURE does it take !
 
@the_patriot said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477523) said:
I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

Facts
 
@snake said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477532) said:
On the phone shortly to cancel 12 premium membership .. the club is a failure and run by self serving individuals good luck with all of that ..3 seasons of failure how much FAILURE does it take !

💯
 
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477530) said:
@the_patriot said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477523) said:
I can live with that.

They need to get the assistants right and they need to start shopping Luke Brooks immediately.

We are actually really short in the halves already

We're playing a man down with Brooks there now.
 
@needaname said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477468) said:
@pj said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477445) said:
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477432) said:
@ccwt said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477423) said:
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477409) said:
@ccwt said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477407) said:
@tiger5150 said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477293) said:
@ccwt said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477193) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477187) said:
@ccwt said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477175) said:
@cqtiger said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477164) said:
@tigerwest said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477163) said:
I wonder what Madge is making of all this?

Is it all worth it?

Granted the club hasn’t actually said anything, but they have let the journo’s run him down without any protection.

His stress levels must be through the roof, hopefully they have spoken to him privately with there thoughts otherwise he might just tell them to go to hell.

Well he can’t be thinking that he has done a wonderful job to date. Surely he can’t be thinking that he has improved the team.

Madge was here to fix the culture and weed out the bad eggs, unfortunately it looks like the bad eggs are going to win as everyone is too impatient to see it through

It’s not a lack of patience, I don’t think anyone could accuse WT fans of having no patience. It’s about his coaching ability. Our defence has progressively worsened each year since he arrived. That’s not the boards fault or Pascoes fault, that’s his fault.

You could extend him for 10 years and it wouldn’t make no difference. His coaching style doesn’t work anymore and he can’t adapt. He’s done.

Also, the comment about him coming on board to fix the culture and weed out the bad eggs is rubbish. That’s a recent narrative that was created to excuse his failures. He said he could make finals with the squad he had. Ironically I also think he’s managed to make the culture worse which is an achievement in itself.

Completely disagree, I think it’s 100% lack of patience. Everyone knows Madges style being a hard trainer and tough etc. similar to Bellamy. That’s what the club needed and still does need in my opinion. The only difference now is the problem players or bad eggs are pushing back because they are being challenged to improve and it’s making them uncomfortable. They would prefer to sack the coach and have a few more years leeway before any pressure is applied again.

Is that why they cant tackle? Or the same gaps open in defence with the same regularity every game?

Do you think Madge teaches them how to leave gaps and miss tackles at training?

He is obviously not teaching them not to.

Haha I can’t agree with that. I think the rule changes which has increased the speed of the game and brought in more fatigue, along with a number of rookies has caused the defensive issues with the team

I thought one of Madge's strong suits was he trained the team hard, we should be able to deal with fatigue better than most?

I don't think we look fatigued at all, imo they seemed fitter than normal.
Our second halves tended to be better and we came back at some sides.
We just looked like we didn't want to be there.
I can hack getting beaten by skill while we don't have the cattle, but getting beaten by effort pisses me off

To be clear though I actually disagree. A lot of our players may had looked ‘fitter’ but a lot of them looked like they had lost a lot of Kilos.
Look at the difference between the size of Tamou in the GF to him in round 1 2021. Joffa at Brisbane and Joffa at the tigers. They stripped down a lot.

But fatigue can not be only measured from a physical perspective, there is such thing as mental fatigue. I’m not sure I saw a lack of effort from the playing group as much as you.

I saw a roster of recently assembled recruits and some rookies try to stop the roll on each game and lack the physicality to do so.

Maybe the preseason did strip too much muscle off the boys I don’t know. But it all came down to us being unable to match the big guys at the speed of the play the ball.

Quick play the ball and our attack would capitalise which explained the quick points at stages through the year. On the other side a quick play the ball to the opposition had us back pedaling.
That is not a defensive tactic, that was the team playing catch up once the odds went against them.

Agreed. It was weird for mine. Our team LOOKED fitter but seemed to gas out earlier than our opposition.
 
Great news, Board shows some backbone! Great that the changes will include giving Madge the assistant coaching support he needs. We're in it for the long term not the short term.

And once again the journos get it wrong!
 
@momo_amp_medo said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477526) said:
@avocadoontoast said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477470) said:
Madge has survived. What a joke of a club.

Good …. Great result!
The Club stays strong.
Bad luck son …. back to your back yard garden stuff.

Mate with fans like you they don't ever need to win. You're just happy losing year in and year out.
 
next few weeks is going to be interesting. spotlight will now turn to admin and the playing group. might see some arrivals and departures on and off the field.
 
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477484) said:
@demps said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477483) said:
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477478) said:
@demps said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477476) said:
@cochise said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477473) said:
I will now support him as I want what's best for the team but I am disappointed.

Whys that bro

Why what?

I thought you were alright with Madge...
This isn't the worst outcome.

Obviously he's on thin ice now..

No, i think it was time to move on, the club though differently

Or couldnt ensure a better replacement Professional if thats the case.
 
Maybe they plan to bring in assistants capable of replacing him. Isn't Siebold looking for a gig?

In all seriousness, would Gardiner be ready in 12 months with a history of working alongside the younger players we have coming through?

I think next year would have been ordinary regardless of who was coaching, but I think that under Madge it could be truly awful.
 
@snake said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1477532) said:
On the phone shortly to cancel 12 premium membership .. the club is a failure and run by self serving individuals good luck with all of that ..3 seasons of failure how much FAILURE does it take !


Tell us what you really think.
 
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