Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[gallagher]

Hoopers right

 

[The_Patriot]

Lol Hooper. You can taste his salt.

As if you would defend Wayne Collins. Definitely was part of the problem.

Grow a set Hooper and move on mate.

 

[rihannafan1]

Madge's position is already untenable.... if the board is split on the decision he should go.

A well run club would not proceed with a coach that half the board want gone, he would be gone end of story, but I did say well run club.

So then how do you read the situation if the board is split on who they replace him with?

I read it as they want Ciraldo, but they are wetting their pants with all the bad media and are second guessing what punting Madge will look like in the media.
A well run club would have another coach lined up, maybe they have I don't know, but they would announce Madge is gone and they thank him but are now moving in another direction.
I just can't see how Madge can stay knowing there are half the board or more who want him sacked, it's untenable now

If they want ciraldo they can just sack madge and say their doing their " due process "

And if Ciraldo falls through? As if that wouldn’t make the media.

You mean if Ciraldo backs out of his agreement with the club? There's way too much smoke for there not to be a fire.

He may have signed a heads of agreement…

haha what a farce that Heads of Agreement comment from Lee was.

Not really, it prevented JAC from signing on with someone else for 2021.

Okay but he still didn't sign with us and is still going where he wanted to.

I know I feel all warm and fuzzy knowing the heads of agreement kept JAC at Melbourne for another year.
What an achievement for our club hey?

Some just can't bare to see how garbage our management is mate.

Some can't bear it but @jirskyr certainly can.

This place needs to move away from the personal attacks. On what basis is it necessary to make personal attacks?

It isn't. Not that I haven't in the past. And I'm not attacking @jirskyr, I'm making sure he is excluded him from @gallagher comments.

 

[Tiger5150]

Sacked to saved in 6 hours: How ‘circus act’ Tigers flipped on Maguire

JAMES HOOPER from Fox Sports
September 21st, 2021 6:23 pm


On Monday morning word went around the Wests Tigers were preparing to read Michael Maguire his last rites as head coach at the club.

An email was sent informing board members about a 4pm meeting and a statement was drafted confirming Madge was no longer to be the Wests Tigers coach.

At 2.30pm Maguire fronted the Wests Tigers football committee charged with determining the fate of the head coach to plead his case via Zoom.

Whatever Maguire said to under pressure CEO Justin Pascoe, chairman Lee Hagipantelis and board members Simon Cook, Rick Wayde and Danny Stapleton, the pitch worked.

Because in the space of six hours Madge went from being out the door at Concord immediately to being the club’s head coach for a fourth straight season.

The 4pm board meeting was then cancelled as the football committee mulled over Maguire’s admission of his own shortcomings and his vision for 2022.

There were promises made about a complete overhaul of the Tigers football department.

By Tuesday morning the club was drafting an entirely different statement confirming Madge had survived the internal football club review and will remain Wests Tigers coach for 2022.

Head of football performance Tim Sheens has since been informed he will move into a football coaching director role sitting on top of the NRL side.

The sole casualty out of the all-encompassing internal review?

Assistant coach Wayne Collins. Yep, “Snoopy” is the only member of the Wests Tigers coaching staff who is gone for 2022. For now.

One of rugby league’s genuine good guys, it says everything about those who sit in the Tigers front office.

In the statement released on Tuesday Pascoe said: “We are firmly committed to building a high performing club. With our strong financial position, increased investment and recent success of our pathways teams, the new centre of excellence and continued work on a South West academy, the arrival of Tim Sheens and his experience in NRL systems, this club is posed to reap the rewards of several years of hard work.”

Firstly, we think he means “poised” to reap – not posed (SIC).

More importantly, Tigers members and fans are fed-up with the model diagrams of the Centre of Excellence and the corporate mumbo jumbo quotes.

During Pascoe’s six-year tenure, Wests Tigers have failed to make the finals every single season.

In the past three years, they’ve gone backwards.

Fans couldn’t care about the off-field success of the business when the on-field results are a road to nowhere.

Sheens, 71, is the great hope of the side to fix the mess.

The first immediate challenge will be trying to intelligently spend the $1.6 million the club still has out of its $9.3 million salary cap for next year.

The Tigers still have four spots available on the club’s NRL roster with the challenge of signing players one of the biggest pitfalls of Maguire’s tenure.

Joe Ofahengaue, James Tamou, BJ Leilua and James Roberts have hardly turned the club’s fortunes around.

Jackson Hastings and Oliver Gildart arrive from the UK Super League shortly but aside from that the Tigers are rolling into 2022 with a roster widely-regarded as simply not up to NRL standard.

Tigers power brokers have guaranteed they will refrain from giving Maguire a six to eight week deadline and will instead push all-in on Madge for next year.

But how would you know what might happen if there’s another 66-16 debacle like what we witnessed against the Melbourne Storm on the Sunshine Coast.

Sheens will be a genius if he can improve the perception of the club amongst the remaining 15 NRL sides.

Because from an outside perspective the Wests Tigers are a complete circus act.

After the last 48 hours, all that’s remaining is for the club to bring out the bearded lady.

Reads like an angry spurned lover. Once you get to the point of having a crack at typing errors and Sheens age, they have lost it. Great to see the media played.

 

[Needaname]

Since this is the thread for all things relevant to change I found reading these two articles back to back from 1 year apart interesting.
Quotes from Garry Jack in both.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/wests-tigers-should-be-sydneys-nrl-giants-but-theyre-lightweights-because-of-this-flawed-strategy/news-story/08444b481dbd01e8e53c4be36f4420d5

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/nrl-2021-michael-maguire-wests-tigers-review-coach-board-meeting-justin-pascoe-reaction-latest-news-updates/news-story/be69adca51d9a291e56a68c3e691bdd6

Yes could not agree more with Gary Jack.
Personally it was a 50/50 call, i was at the final game this season and we have no leaders in the team nor a game plan.
I put that down to Madge and his selection policy in maintaining non performing players???

If the club has back him i have too, i do know on a plus side he cares about the club and wants to see it prosper and he does does work tirelessly at this task.

So attention should focus on Pascoe now as he signs off on players contracts and think he should go as someone needs to be held accountable for 2021 if not Madge.

I also enjoyed reading the NRL economists article back then and have heard him say similar regarding the benefit of plenty of growth in a squad compared to plenty of experience.

Well you can see for yourself both scenarios.
Between both years and the end result.
We are in the growth stage in 2021 and have plenty of squad upside in terms of development and in 2019/2020 we were at the peak stage.
You can see how losing the experience can hurt a squad but in the same time you can also see how having no room to grow can limit your opportunities.
The NRL ecomonist was not alone in his thoughts at the end of 2020. A lot of us were calling for more youth to be played and well this season was the result. Madge / Hartigan started to rebuild this youth in the team start of last year and would of had a whole season for the younger players to come together in the lower grades. But with the COVID shut down building a new group without being able to play together has really hampered us this year.

 

[Guest]

‘Outrageous’: Buzz reveals Tigers ‘kept Sheens in the dark’ over Madge call

Staff Writers from Fox Sports
September 21st, 2021 7:13 pm


After Michael Maguire was spared the axe on Tuesday, The Daily Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield has revealed incoming football guru Tim Sheens wasn’t consulted on the decision to keep ‘Madge’ in post.

Maguire was given a reprieve by the club on Tuesday after 48 hours of fevered speculation that he was about to be given the sack by the joint venture club.

The Tigers hierarchy released a statement saying they were willing to give Maguire to turn the club around.

But speaking on NRL360 on Fox League, Rothfield said Sheens had not be asked for his view on Maguire’s future.

“This is what I find quite stunning,” Rothfield said.

“He was originally employed as a consultant.

“Then their review came along and he was promoted to be director of coaching.

“When they did that Zoom meeting and he wasn’t part of it.

“He has been kept in the dark all along re: developments with Michael Maguire, ‘Snoopy’ Collins the assistant and they’ve appointed him with all his experience and he wasn’t part of the decision… I find it outrageous.”

Rothfield’s Daily Telegraph colleague, Paul Kent, said that the club were beginning to work out that the issues at the club didn’t lie solely with Maguire.

“There’s no single answer to what’s wrong at the club,” Kent said.

“It’s not just one person, the club is realising that.

“Every coach who has been there has been slaughtered by the club except for Ivan Cleary who walked out on them. None of them have coached since, they’ve all been reduced to minor roles here or there.

“There’s a smell around the club and that it’s not just Michael Maguire. Their recruitment problems are not just the coach, it’s the club.

“Everybody – and this happens at smaller clubs – in a bid to help each other out is helping out in other areas.

“When one area starts to not fire, in recruitment for example, because they can’t attract big talent, Michael Maguire has to get involved in negotiations.

“He’s been distracted and this is happening right throughout the club.”

 

[jirskyr]

In the statement released on Tuesday Pascoe said: “We are firmly committed to building a high performing club. With our strong financial position, increased investment and recent success of our pathways teams, the new centre of excellence and continued work on a South West academy, the arrival of Tim Sheens and his experience in NRL systems, this club is posed to reap the rewards of several years of hard work.”
Firstly, we think he means “poised” to reap – not posed (SIC).

Clear enough then that the official Tigers word goes through the SMH and no official comments are provided to Pooper and Fox, because he's quoting off the official statement that everyone received.

Where does Pooper get off calling out someone else's typos? I imagine Pascoe doesn't have an editor to catch all his mistakes like Pooper does. What a scumbag dope.

 

[Tiger5150]

I’ve just read the SMH report and what struck me as weird was the concern from the board that there needed to be greater connection between the club and the football department.

From the chairs and CEO’s previous communication, it seems the separation between the football department and club was intentional given Pascoe and the board has no football intelligence. I remember at the start of this review the chair laying the blame on the football department and going to painstaking lengths to praise the financial performance of the front office. It’s hypocritical bs that the board have laid the blame at Madge’s feet for the org structure and delineation of duties and responsibilities and that’s coming from someone who wanted Madge gone.

This is just one example of mixed messaging and diabolical communication from the club. I remember when Taylor got sacked, the club refused to acknowledge he was the wrong choice (clearly he was), the Pangai Jnr situation was embarrassing and unprofessional and yesterday’s cancelled board meeting was just a train wreck from start to finish. Communication may seem like a minor detail but poor communication creates uncertainty and an unstable working environment. It makes us seem outwardly unprofessional and chaotic, and degrades our integrity. Also it points to deeper issues of a lack of strategic direction both on and off the field.

Sorry for the long-winded rant guys I’ve just never been more disappointed and ashamed of the club.

Why was the cancelled board meeting embarrassing?

I find it embarrassing because it was a knee-jerk reaction to media reports and another back-flip by the club. It makes the board look spineless and indecisive because they can’t make a decision and allow that decision to be scrutinised. No matter what field you’re in any decision will likely be criticised but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be decisive. It just means that you should have the rationale and evidence to augment any decisions/stance. This seems lost on the board.

Madge presented to the Football committee yesterday and the board decided to think on it over night, it doesn't mean there was a backflip.

I felt the board lost their nerve after criticism from the media. I get the board needed to consider Madge’s response but I can’t see how Madge’s response would have differed that greatly to the commentary/feedback he gave during the review process.

Based on?

Doesnt Occams Razor and the known facts all point towards the board/club actually doing things properly?

Doing things right like missing the finals the past ten years? Can you point to anything the board is actually doing right?

Ive made it clear a few times, we are talking about the role of management since the end of the season. Can yo upoint to something they have done wrong?

 

[Tiger5150]

I’ve just read the SMH report and what struck me as weird was the concern from the board that there needed to be greater connection between the club and the football department.

From the chairs and CEO’s previous communication, it seems the separation between the football department and club was intentional given Pascoe and the board has no football intelligence. I remember at the start of this review the chair laying the blame on the football department and going to painstaking lengths to praise the financial performance of the front office. It’s hypocritical bs that the board have laid the blame at Madge’s feet for the org structure and delineation of duties and responsibilities and that’s coming from someone who wanted Madge gone.

This is just one example of mixed messaging and diabolical communication from the club. I remember when Taylor got sacked, the club refused to acknowledge he was the wrong choice (clearly he was), the Pangai Jnr situation was embarrassing and unprofessional and yesterday’s cancelled board meeting was just a train wreck from start to finish. Communication may seem like a minor detail but poor communication creates uncertainty and an unstable working environment. It makes us seem outwardly unprofessional and chaotic, and degrades our integrity. Also it points to deeper issues of a lack of strategic direction both on and off the field.

Sorry for the long-winded rant guys I’ve just never been more disappointed and ashamed of the club.

It has been written by Michael Chammas, the same guy who has been running an agenda against Madge for months and lying for a week.

Doesn’t change the inconsistent stances and messages coming out of the club.

What inconsistent stances or messages have come out of the club since the end of the season?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

More importantly, Tigers members and fans are fed-up with the model diagrams of the Centre of Excellence and the corporate mumbo jumbo quotes.


Fans couldn’t care about the off-field success of the business when the on-field results are a road to nowhere.


Talk about a complete lack of self awareness. Taking it upon himself to be the voice of a supporter base that thinks he’s a parasite. What a moron.

 

[jirskyr]

I also enjoyed reading the NRL economists article back then and have heard him say similar regarding the benefit of plenty of growth in a squad compared to plenty of experience.

I'm sorry Ramy Haidar is a Class-A dope. His articles are trash, his arguments are superficial and I've heard him on podcasts and it's banal.

 

[Geo]

In the statement released on Tuesday Pascoe said: “We are firmly committed to building a high performing club. With our strong financial position, increased investment and recent success of our pathways teams, the new centre of excellence and continued work on a South West academy, the arrival of Tim Sheens and his experience in NRL systems, this club is posed to reap the rewards of several years of hard work.”
Firstly, we think he means “poised” to reap – not posed (SIC).

Clear enough then that the official Tigers word goes through the SMH and no official comments are provided to Pooper and Fox, because he's quoting off the official statement that everyone received.

Where does Pooper get off calling out someone else's typos? I imagine Pascoe doesn't have an editor to catch all his mistakes like Pooper does. What a scumbag dope.

I'm still trying to work out who Phil Kent is from Poopers article yesterday..

 

[rihannafan1]

I'm glad Sheens seems to be in a role above Maguire. Hopefully he takes lots of the footy stuff away from Pascoe and lets him focus on the business side. If so, the club is finally resourcing it self properly.

 

[jirskyr]

“He has been kept in the dark all along re: developments with Michael Maguire, ‘Snoopy’ Collins the assistant and they’ve appointed him with all his experience and he wasn’t part of the decision… I find it outrageous.”

Once again - a paper/website article created from the opinion of some mug talking head on a Fox TV show. I hope you can all see through the News Ltd crap, where they make hysterical arguments, then have someone quote those arguments in a newspaper article - you get the same trash output in two different formats.

"I find it outrageous". Haha Buzz don't ever change (because I enjoy hating you).

 

[yeahcaz]

‘Outrageous’: Buzz reveals Tigers ‘kept Sheens in the dark’ over Madge call

Staff Writers from Fox Sports
September 21st, 2021 7:13 pm


After Michael Maguire was spared the axe on Tuesday, The Daily Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield has revealed incoming football guru Tim Sheens wasn’t consulted on the decision to keep ‘Madge’ in post.

Maguire was given a reprieve by the club on Tuesday after 48 hours of fevered speculation that he was about to be given the sack by the joint venture club.

The Tigers hierarchy released a statement saying they were willing to give Maguire to turn the club around.

But speaking on NRL360 on Fox League, Rothfield said Sheens had not be asked for his view on Maguire’s future.

“This is what I find quite stunning,” Rothfield said.

“He was originally employed as a consultant.

“Then their review came along and he was promoted to be director of coaching.

“When they did that Zoom meeting and he wasn’t part of it.

“He has been kept in the dark all along re: developments with Michael Maguire, ‘Snoopy’ Collins the assistant and they’ve appointed him with all his experience and he wasn’t part of the decision… I find it outrageous.”

Rothfield’s Daily Telegraph colleague, Paul Kent, said that the club were beginning to work out that the issues at the club didn’t lie solely with Maguire.

“There’s no single answer to what’s wrong at the club,” Kent said.

“It’s not just one person, the club is realising that.

“Every coach who has been there has been slaughtered by the club except for Ivan Cleary who walked out on them. None of them have coached since, they’ve all been reduced to minor roles here or there.

“There’s a smell around the club and that it’s not just Michael Maguire. Their recruitment problems are not just the coach, it’s the club.

“Everybody – and this happens at smaller clubs – in a bid to help each other out is helping out in other areas.

“When one area starts to not fire, in recruitment for example, because they can’t attract big talent, Michael Maguire has to get involved in negotiations.

“He’s been distracted and this is happening right throughout the club.”

This article takes the cake 😂

 

[Guest]

Sheens set for increased role as Maguire retains job
Author - Brad Walter & Dan Walsh
Timestamp - Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:13 PM

Four-time premiership-winning mentor Tim Sheens is set to take on an increased role with Wests Tigers upon his return to the club in a director of coaching position after confirmation that Michael Maguire would continue as coach next season.

Sheens – who won premierships with the Tigers in 2005 and Canberra in 1989, 1990 and 1994 – is waiting for a flight from England to take up the post and will work closely with Maguire, who survived a review of the club’s football operations that sparked intense speculation about his future.

The cashed-up Tigers, who have about $2 million in their salary cap to spend and have been linked with the likes of Tariq Sims and Adam Elliott, will part ways with assistant coach Wayne Collins and are on the look-out for a replacement.

However, the main change next season will be the involvement of Sheens, who coached Maguire at the Raiders and has a relationship with Tigers great Robbie Farah – a member of the club’s staff – from his time in charge of the Kangaroos.

“Tim will be far more actively engaged within the NRL team and football department than was originally envisaged,” Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis said. “He will be an incredible resource and utility to the organisation and to the football department, in particular.

“His role is tantamount to a director of coaching role but Tim, to the extent necessary, will largely define his own role. He is entitled to do that. The man has coached over 700 first grade games.”

Maguire is an experienced coach and has enjoyed grand final success with Wigan in 2010 and South Sydney in 2014, while reviving the fortunes of the Kiwis who are currently the No.1 ranked Test playing nation after being eliminated by Fiji in the quarter-finals of the 2017 World Cup.

However, Hagipantelis is confident Maguire and Sheens will complement each other in their roles with the Tigers next season.

“Tim and Michael go back a long way and they both speak very highly of each other. It is almost a master and master apprentice-type relationship, although the master-apprentice himself has become a master as Michael has two premierships to his name.

“My understanding, and from what I have observed, is that they have an excellent relationship both in and out of employment, and we are really looking forward to how that develops over the next season.”

After weeks of intense debate about whether Maguire would serve a fourth season in charge of the Tigers, Hagipantelis said the club could now move forward and step up the recruitment of players for next season.

The Tigers have some promising young talent, headed by Daine Laurie, Adam Doueihi, Stefano Utoikamanu, Jake Simpkin and Shawn Blore, but have struggled to recruit big-name players.

Sims, who played for NSW this season, has been given permission by St George Illawarra to negotiate with rival clubs, while Elliott has been released by the Bulldogs and former Blues utility Tyrone Peachey is also without a club.

“There has been activity within the recruitment and retention spaces over the last little while and that will of course now be ramped up because one of the things I have learned is that the identity of the head coach does figure largely in the thinking of potential recruits,” Hagipantelis said.

“Now that we have moved on, we are able to fully re-engage in that space. We have cap space and we have money to spend so we will now be sitting down to ensure we spend the money wisely for the sole purpose of enhancing what we consider to be a very exciting young roster that we already have.”

Maguire is contracted until the end of the 2023 season but Hagipantelis admitted there would again be speculation about the club’s coaching position if the team does perform well next season.

“That’s understandable but it is pressure that will be external, not internal,” he said. “We have and we will continue to provide the football department and Michael, in particular, all of the support and resources that they need to be successful.

“He is our contracted NRL head coach, there will be no undue pressure or influence from the organisation itself, but the expectation is that everyone will do their best.”

 

[mike]

Time will tell whether the line drawn in the sand was the right one. I'm glad a decision has at least been made, but I'm very dubious whether the changes the WT will implement across its football department will result in improved performances.

I still don't think Madge is the right guy to get the most of this squad - unless there is some miraculous (and I mean that in every sense of the word) change in attitude next season, we're bringing home the spoon. New assistant coaches may provide some benefit, but I think the board, and the entire structure of the board needs to change.

The bigger issues of recruitment rest with Madge and Hartigan, and I'm far from convinced we're going to improve in this regard. I still don't think we've hit rock bottom yet, and that worries me.

With Sheens onboard and In a more hands on role, no more excuses For Madge. If no improvement next year, especially after the first couple of rounds, he is sacked. He has no more excuses.

No way. We’ll be lucky if we don’t get the spoon next year and it has nothing todo with the coach.

 

[Tiger5150]

I also enjoyed reading the NRL economists article back then and have heard him say similar regarding the benefit of plenty of growth in a squad compared to plenty of experience.


I'm sorry Ramy Haidar is a Class-A dope. His articles are trash, his arguments are superficial and I've heard him on podcasts and it's banal.

Correct and always backs his agenda. He is a Bulldogs fan and an employee of Manly.

 

[jirskyr]

In the statement released on Tuesday Pascoe said: “We are firmly committed to building a high performing club. With our strong financial position, increased investment and recent success of our pathways teams, the new centre of excellence and continued work on a South West academy, the arrival of Tim Sheens and his experience in NRL systems, this club is posed to reap the rewards of several years of hard work.”
Firstly, we think he means “poised” to reap – not posed (SIC).

Clear enough then that the official Tigers word goes through the SMH and no official comments are provided to Pooper and Fox, because he's quoting off the official statement that everyone received.

Where does Pooper get off calling out someone else's typos? I imagine Pascoe doesn't have an editor to catch all his mistakes like Pooper does. What a scumbag dope.

I'm still trying to work out who Phil Kent is from Poopers article yesterday..

You or someone should twitter him all his typos. I don't do twitter.

 

[hugh1954]

Please lets not have players writing out their ambitions and effort areas on texta whiteboards , unless they have to revisit it publicly after say 4 rounds