Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[TigerJunior4]

I’ve just read the SMH report and what struck me as weird was the concern from the board that there needed to be greater connection between the club and the football department.

From the chairs and CEO’s previous communication, it seems the separation between the football department and club was intentional given Pascoe and the board has no football intelligence. I remember at the start of this review the chair laying the blame on the football department and going to painstaking lengths to praise the financial performance of the front office. It’s hypocritical bs that the board have laid the blame at Madge’s feet for the org structure and delineation of duties and responsibilities and that’s coming from someone who wanted Madge gone.

This is just one example of mixed messaging and diabolical communication from the club. I remember when Taylor got sacked, the club refused to acknowledge he was the wrong choice (clearly he was), the Pangai Jnr situation was embarrassing and unprofessional and yesterday’s cancelled board meeting was just a train wreck from start to finish. Communication may seem like a minor detail but poor communication creates uncertainty and an unstable working environment. It makes us seem outwardly unprofessional and chaotic, and degrades our integrity. Also it points to deeper issues of a lack of strategic direction both on and off the field.

Sorry for the long-winded rant guys I’ve just never been more disappointed and ashamed of the club.

Why was the cancelled board meeting embarrassing?

I find it embarrassing because it was a knee-jerk reaction to media reports and another back-flip by the club. It makes the board look spineless and indecisive because they can’t make a decision and allow that decision to be scrutinised. No matter what field you’re in any decision will likely be criticised but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be decisive. It just means that you should have the rationale and evidence to augment any decisions/stance. This seems lost on the board.

Madge presented to the Football committee yesterday and the board decided to think on it over night, it doesn't mean there was a backflip.

I felt the board lost their nerve after criticism from the media. I get the board needed to consider Madge’s response but I can’t see how Madge’s response would have differed that greatly to the commentary/feedback he gave during the review process.

Based on?

Doesnt Occams Razor and the known facts all point towards the board/club actually doing things properly?

Doing things right like missing the finals the past ten years? Can you point to anything the board is actually doing right?

Ive made it clear a few times, we are talking about the role of management since the end of the season. Can yo upoint to something they have done wrong?

Well they didn’t conduct an independent review for starters. The CEO isn’t a subject matter expert in football operations so it would make sense to procure someone with that knowledge and understanding to conduct the review into the football department to identify any areas of weakness or develop solutions to enable improvement. The scope of any review should have also included Hartigan and Pascoe particularly given concerns about recruitment.

I think the board should at least look at a restructure given the lack of football understanding. I think it’s important to have a mixture of skill sets on the board and diverse representatives to avoid group think. For obvious reasons it’s important to have a solicitor, accountant etc but it’s also important to have some subject matter experts eg people with footy nous and experience. This doesn’t have to be the prevalent skillset but maybe two or so reps with footy nous. I’d also look at having an uneven number of board members but that’s mostly personal preference to avoid hung votes.

There’s also the mixed messages from the chair. He gave an interview saying Madge was fine, turned around a week later and refused to confirm if Madge was safe. It creates confusion and an unstable environment that allows innuendo and rumours to swirl. But that’s just my take on it.

So can you point to any positive steps or actions the board has taken since the end of season?

They undertook a review of the Football department (which are answerable to the board), didnt take the easy option of sacking the coach and did the whole thing in house and quickly, they are restructuring the football department and apparently taking steps to remove a rat on the board.

All good things.

I disagree about the in house review, and I think Madge should have been punted but wasn’t aware of the moves to get rid of the rat/plug up the media leaks. I think that is a positive step to get rid of unprofessional people like that from the club.

 

[frullens]

It’s an interesting place we now arrive at as a club.

Intended or not, Madge will now be under the microscope by the trigger happy media next year.

We have had significant moments as a club before and on just about every occasion we have been found wanting irrespective of whom the current custodians (Management, Coaching & Players) have been.

This time the club must now find some actual leadership and get ruthless in pursuit of success.

It’s clear this off season is pivotal.

As a fan I want to see an actual plan and clear accountability and purpose moving forward around the proposed structural and procedural changes.

There must also be tangible action and execution of said plan that translates to onfield performance, not just more words and rhetoric.

Show me you can produce WT, as a long suffering fan I want to believe but I need to see it.

This is the time to change to a decent footy club CEO, to lead the new chapter.
Someone to oversee the full restructuring of football department and pathways, as well as lead the new strategic direction including home ground decision, Macarthur strategy, new academy, etc.

We need someone in CEO who is ruthless and hungry for success and demands accountability. Someone to drive a new culture from top to bottom.

Paste has done some good things, like COE, financially stable, and the beginning of this new change. But his time is up. Time for a new type of LEADER

 

[TigerJunior4]

I’ve just read the SMH report and what struck me as weird was the concern from the board that there needed to be greater connection between the club and the football department.

From the chairs and CEO’s previous communication, it seems the separation between the football department and club was intentional given Pascoe and the board has no football intelligence. I remember at the start of this review the chair laying the blame on the football department and going to painstaking lengths to praise the financial performance of the front office. It’s hypocritical bs that the board have laid the blame at Madge’s feet for the org structure and delineation of duties and responsibilities and that’s coming from someone who wanted Madge gone.

This is just one example of mixed messaging and diabolical communication from the club. I remember when Taylor got sacked, the club refused to acknowledge he was the wrong choice (clearly he was), the Pangai Jnr situation was embarrassing and unprofessional and yesterday’s cancelled board meeting was just a train wreck from start to finish. Communication may seem like a minor detail but poor communication creates uncertainty and an unstable working environment. It makes us seem outwardly unprofessional and chaotic, and degrades our integrity. Also it points to deeper issues of a lack of strategic direction both on and off the field.

Sorry for the long-winded rant guys I’ve just never been more disappointed and ashamed of the club.

Why was the cancelled board meeting embarrassing?

I find it embarrassing because it was a knee-jerk reaction to media reports and another back-flip by the club. It makes the board look spineless and indecisive because they can’t make a decision and allow that decision to be scrutinised. No matter what field you’re in any decision will likely be criticised but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be decisive. It just means that you should have the rationale and evidence to augment any decisions/stance. This seems lost on the board.

Madge presented to the Football committee yesterday and the board decided to think on it over night, it doesn't mean there was a backflip.

I felt the board lost their nerve after criticism from the media. I get the board needed to consider Madge’s response but I can’t see how Madge’s response would have differed that greatly to the commentary/feedback he gave during the review process.

Based on?

Doesnt Occams Razor and the known facts all point towards the board/club actually doing things properly?

Doing things right like missing the finals the past ten years? Can you point to anything the board is actually doing right?

Ive made it clear a few times, we are talking about the role of management since the end of the season. Can yo upoint to something they have done wrong?

Well they didn’t conduct an independent review for starters. The CEO isn’t a subject matter expert in football operations so it would make sense to procure someone with that knowledge and understanding to conduct the review into the football department to identify any areas of weakness or develop solutions to enable improvement. The scope of any review should have also included Hartigan and Pascoe particularly given concerns about recruitment.

I think the board should at least look at a restructure given the lack of football understanding. I think it’s important to have a mixture of skill sets on the board and diverse representatives to avoid group think. For obvious reasons it’s important to have a solicitor, accountant etc but it’s also important to have some subject matter experts eg people with footy nous and experience. This doesn’t have to be the prevalent skillset but maybe two or so reps with footy nous. I’d also look at having an uneven number of board members but that’s mostly personal preference to avoid hung votes.

There’s also the mixed messages from the chair. He gave an interview saying Madge was fine, turned around a week later and refused to confirm if Madge was safe. It creates confusion and an unstable environment that allows innuendo and rumours to swirl. But that’s just my take on it.

So can you point to any positive steps or actions the board has taken since the end of season?

Tbh think the conflicting messages is an indication of the board (and its decision making process) as well as the club's crisis management or crisis response systems. That there's a clear hierarchical chain of command involved.

I think that’s a fair assessment actually. It’s probably worth me considering root causes or acknowledging the systems in place before directing my ire and anger solely at the chair.

 

[Needaname]

Sheens set for increased role as Maguire retains job
Author - Brad Walter & Dan Walsh
Timestamp - Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:13 PM

And see how this one is just reporting - no pundit opinions, no hysterics, no outrage. "Tigers didn't change the coach and this is what they say their new plan is."

You should know that the NRL.com doesn’t publish speculative articles. Only factual reports and or former player / expert opinion pieces.
I always refer to an NRL.com article as the offical word once something is reported. All mostly well written I must say.
I really ‘actually’ enjoy the “Winning Starts Monday” pieces.

 

[Needaname]

Robbo congratulated Madge, calling him a fine coach on NRL360. Respected figure in the game. Now let him whip this roster into shape.

Of course all the other coaches want our team to be coached by someone that is not up to the task! Gus, and Gallen and Robbo are not concerned with what is in the best interests of the tigers, they are are competitors and as such their opinion on who should coach us should not be so highly valued and prized!

Sorry who does Gallen coach?

 

[Tiger5150]

Sheens set for increased role as Maguire retains job
Author - Brad Walter & Dan Walsh
Timestamp - Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:13 PM

And see how this one is just reporting - no pundit opinions, no hysterics, no outrage. "Tigers didn't change the coach and this is what they say their new plan is."

You should know that the NRL.com doesn’t publish speculative articles. Only factual reports and or former player / expert opinion pieces.
I always refer to an NRL.com article as the offical word once something is reported. All mostly well written I must say.
I really ‘actually’ enjoy the “Winning Starts Monday” pieces.

You know NRL.com articles are written by and mirror news.com.au?

 

[momo_amp_medo]

My wife and I each have a premium membership and will keep them. We support the Wests Tigers and would never put any coach, player or other individual above the club (even Robbie!). We have stuck solid through thick and thin and believe that's what members and fans do.

I'm not looking for any pats on the back for this but we will always support whoever the club appoints. so the outcome of the review has had no impact on our support. I'm glad to see Madge continue with the passion and belief that he wears on his sleeve.

Here's to better times ahead!


Enjoy your wooden spoon next season to eat your soup with, because that’s where we are heading!

He didn't deserve that response.


Obviously not directed especially at him but the general Madge lovers with their massive blinkers on! Can’t stand the ignorance of some people!

Do they really even watch the games, as I said previously I have supported the club through numerous wooden spoons and this is the worst we have looked by a mile!

38-0 to the wooden spooners!

Do you want a medal, or a chest to pin it on? Big whoop, you followed to Maggies when they sucked. I followed Balmain from the early 90's into Wests Tigers. Not much to cheer about there either.

I think anyone who has followed Wests Tigers since it's inception understands what disappointment is. Some people are happy to stick it out through thick and thin. Would have thought an old Magpie or Balmain fan would understand that. I mean after all, we're all still here...?

Great post and response.
For most of us we realise that in the end it’s only a game with its ups and downs. And for one I’ve always was there for the underdogs. And eventually on those few occasions when that elusive victory comes …. It’s something to savour.

 

[Needaname]

Sheens set for increased role as Maguire retains job
Author - Brad Walter & Dan Walsh
Timestamp - Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:13 PM

And see how this one is just reporting - no pundit opinions, no hysterics, no outrage. "Tigers didn't change the coach and this is what they say their new plan is."

You should know that the NRL.com doesn’t publish speculative articles. Only factual reports and or former player / expert opinion pieces.
I always refer to an NRL.com article as the offical word once something is reported. All mostly well written I must say.
I really ‘actually’ enjoy the “Winning Starts Monday” pieces.

You know NRL.com articles are written by and mirror news.com.au?

I didn’t know that. I don’t follow news.com
But I’m pretty sure Brad Walter, Troy Whittaker, Dan Walsh and others are exclusive NRL.com journalists.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

‘Outrageous’: Buzz reveals Tigers ‘kept Sheens in the dark’ over Madge call

Staff Writers from Fox Sports
September 21st, 2021 7:13 pm


After Michael Maguire was spared the axe on Tuesday, The Daily Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield has revealed incoming football guru Tim Sheens wasn’t consulted on the decision to keep ‘Madge’ in post.

Maguire was given a reprieve by the club on Tuesday after 48 hours of fevered speculation that he was about to be given the sack by the joint venture club.

The Tigers hierarchy released a statement saying they were willing to give Maguire to turn the club around.

But speaking on NRL360 on Fox League, Rothfield said Sheens had not be asked for his view on Maguire’s future.

“This is what I find quite stunning,” Rothfield said.

“He was originally employed as a consultant.

“Then their review came along and he was promoted to be director of coaching.

“When they did that Zoom meeting and he wasn’t part of it.

“He has been kept in the dark all along re: developments with Michael Maguire, ‘Snoopy’ Collins the assistant and they’ve appointed him with all his experience and he wasn’t part of the decision… I find it outrageous.”

Rothfield’s Daily Telegraph colleague, Paul Kent, said that the club were beginning to work out that the issues at the club didn’t lie solely with Maguire.

“There’s no single answer to what’s wrong at the club,” Kent said.

“It’s not just one person, the club is realising that.

“Every coach who has been there has been slaughtered by the club except for Ivan Cleary who walked out on them. None of them have coached since, they’ve all been reduced to minor roles here or there.

“There’s a smell around the club and that it’s not just Michael Maguire. Their recruitment problems are not just the coach, it’s the club.

“Everybody – and this happens at smaller clubs – in a bid to help each other out is helping out in other areas.

“When one area starts to not fire, in recruitment for example, because they can’t attract big talent, Michael Maguire has to get involved in negotiations.

“He’s been distracted and this is happening right throughout the club.”

Maybe Sheens chose to stay out of it such that he was able to work with Madge with clean air between the two. If he had lobbied for him to be sacked and now he has to be his boss they would have a dysfunctional relationship. Also they are meant to be old friends so there is a conflict there

 

[momo_amp_medo]

James Hooper with another article doubling down on his agenda to trash the club. Not posting because I don't want to give him oxygen.

Excellent. Great call. I don’t read anything written by the Pooper…

Yeah …. read it …. Guy is a worm. Calls himself a west’s tigers supporter …. Unbelievable!

 

[Littlebittipsy]

Sheens set for increased role as Maguire retains job
Author - Brad Walter & Dan Walsh
Timestamp - Tue 21 Sep 2021, 06:13 PM

And see how this one is just reporting - no pundit opinions, no hysterics, no outrage. "Tigers didn't change the coach and this is what they say their new plan is."

Professional

 

[TheDaBoss]

The journos have sore fingers

 

[Tiger_Fanatic3]


 

[Tiger-ferret]

Sound like the Board ebbed and flowed before finally making a decision

Lol

 

[WT2019]

‘Outrageous’: Buzz reveals Tigers ‘kept Sheens in the dark’ over Madge call

Staff Writers from Fox Sports
September 21st, 2021 7:13 pm


After Michael Maguire was spared the axe on Tuesday, The Daily Telegraph’s Phil Rothfield has revealed incoming football guru Tim Sheens wasn’t consulted on the decision to keep ‘Madge’ in post.

Maguire was given a reprieve by the club on Tuesday after 48 hours of fevered speculation that he was about to be given the sack by the joint venture club.

The Tigers hierarchy released a statement saying they were willing to give Maguire to turn the club around.

But speaking on NRL360 on Fox League, Rothfield said Sheens had not be asked for his view on Maguire’s future.

“This is what I find quite stunning,” Rothfield said.

“He was originally employed as a consultant.

“Then their review came along and he was promoted to be director of coaching.

“When they did that Zoom meeting and he wasn’t part of it.

“He has been kept in the dark all along re: developments with Michael Maguire, ‘Snoopy’ Collins the assistant and they’ve appointed him with all his experience and he wasn’t part of the decision… I find it outrageous.”

Rothfield’s Daily Telegraph colleague, Paul Kent, said that the club were beginning to work out that the issues at the club didn’t lie solely with Maguire.

“There’s no single answer to what’s wrong at the club,” Kent said.

“It’s not just one person, the club is realising that.

“Every coach who has been there has been slaughtered by the club except for Ivan Cleary who walked out on them. None of them have coached since, they’ve all been reduced to minor roles here or there.

“There’s a smell around the club and that it’s not just Michael Maguire. Their recruitment problems are not just the coach, it’s the club.

“Everybody – and this happens at smaller clubs – in a bid to help each other out is helping out in other areas.

“When one area starts to not fire, in recruitment for example, because they can’t attract big talent, Michael Maguire has to get involved in negotiations.

“He’s been distracted and this is happening right throughout the club.”

Maybe Sheens chose to stay out of it such that he was able to work with Madge with clean air between the two. If he had lobbied for him to be sacked and now he has to be his boss they would have a dysfunctional relationship. Also they are meant to be old friends so there is a conflict there

Exactly and the right way to play it

 

[watersider]

It's the right decision.

Madge was a good selection when he started and he's had a horrible set of circumstances over the last three years. The results have been disapppointing but the disciplined approach to recruitment has meant we're in a good financial position for the first time in ages.

Madge therefore deserves to coach us next year. You recruit a coach to build something and you can point to the disappointing players being let go and the new young players coming in as evidence of progress at the club. The main thing is he is putting the club in a better position than what it was. And that can't be said for Potter (who wasn't really given a chance), Taylor (who stuffed his) and Cleary (who did more damage to our club than any other coach we've ever had).

Most importantly, it is important for our club's reputation that Madge be given next year. Tearing him down after re-signing him fits the media narrative and would really damage our ability to recruit a quality coach next time.

My one hesitation is that the club hasn't really backed Madge in a way that shows confidence in him. It looks like he's only just holding on, and that undermines both our ability to recruit and the message to the current players. Handicapping him in this way makes his job harder and lets players off the hook.

This isn't an excuse for Madge next year, whatever the circumstances we need to improve next year, but it wasn't well handled by the club and I think there needs to be work going into how to make the decision making process less public and how to develop better media strategies that mean we're not able to so easily be portrayed as a shambles.

Obviously, winning changes everything. I'm glad, whatever happens, that the club gave Madge the opportunity next year.

 

[weststigers]

It's the right decision.

Madge was a good selection when he started and he's had a horrible set of circumstances over the last three years. The results have been disapppointing but the disciplined approach to recruitment has meant we're in a good financial position for the first time in ages.

Madge therefore deserves to coach us next year. You recruit a coach to build something and you can point to the disappointing players being let go and the new young players coming in as evidence of progress at the club. The main thing is he is putting the club in a better position than what it was. And that can't be said for Potter (who wasn't really given a chance), Taylor (who stuffed his) and Cleary (who did more damage to our club than any other coach we've ever had).

Most importantly, it is important for our club's reputation that Madge be given next year. Tearing him down after re-signing him fits the media narrative and would really damage our ability to recruit a quality coach next time.

My one hesitation is that the club hasn't really backed Madge in a way that shows confidence in him. It looks like he's only just holding on, and that undermines both our ability to recruit and the message to the current players. Handicapping him in this way makes his job harder and lets players off the hook.

This isn't an excuse for Madge next year, whatever the circumstances we need to improve next year, but it wasn't well handled by the club and I think there needs to be work going into how to make the decision making process less public and how to develop better media strategies that mean we're not able to so easily be portrayed as a shambles.

Obviously, winning changes everything. I'm glad, whatever happens, that the club gave Madge the opportunity next year.

Agreed.

Not only that, people say it's Madge's team and they point to Tamou, Roberts and Leilua vs Cleary's Packer, Mybe and Reynolds. They conveniently leave out Laurie, Stefano and Blore.

On that point, Madge signed those guys for a total of $1 million a season ($550k of which is Leilua) and on very short contracts. He didn't trash our cap! Cleary's duds cost us 2.5 million and put us on the back foot for 4 years - we are LUCKY Matulino was medically retired or it would have been worse.

Every coach knows there is a risk players don't perform and these guys didn't, but they are on virtually nothing, so if you have someone better, who cares? Put them in reserves...the issue is he doesn't have anyone better, so he's playing the cards that have been dealt.

The reality is, with a side lacking depth, experience and talent, even the Roosters got towelled up this season.

We are seriously lacking players and I don't think Maguire is 100% responsible for that.

 

[WT2019]

It's the right decision.

Madge was a good selection when he started and he's had a horrible set of circumstances over the last three years. The results have been disapppointing but the disciplined approach to recruitment has meant we're in a good financial position for the first time in ages.

Madge therefore deserves to coach us next year. You recruit a coach to build something and you can point to the disappointing players being let go and the new young players coming in as evidence of progress at the club. The main thing is he is putting the club in a better position than what it was. And that can't be said for Potter (who wasn't really given a chance), Taylor (who stuffed his) and Cleary (who did more damage to our club than any other coach we've ever had).

Most importantly, it is important for our club's reputation that Madge be given next year. Tearing him down after re-signing him fits the media narrative and would really damage our ability to recruit a quality coach next time.

My one hesitation is that the club hasn't really backed Madge in a way that shows confidence in him. It looks like he's only just holding on, and that undermines both our ability to recruit and the message to the current players. Handicapping him in this way makes his job harder and lets players off the hook.

This isn't an excuse for Madge next year, whatever the circumstances we need to improve next year, but it wasn't well handled by the club and I think there needs to be work going into how to make the decision making process less public and how to develop better media strategies that mean we're not able to so easily be portrayed as a shambles.

Obviously, winning changes everything. I'm glad, whatever happens, that the club gave Madge the opportunity next year.

Agree but the only way he will be successful is if the club (not him) surround him with capable assistants . I recall with Tim the role that Royce played internally..he was the messenger and the glue and let Tim focus on higher level important jobs. As suggested in other threads, maybe Pay could deliver same message and we know he is a very passionate leader and has a strong focus on defense .. not de fence

 

[Viking Warrior]

Madge hasn't taken a team to finals since 2015. In 2017 he took the Rabbitohs to 12th place, the year after Anthony Seibold took over who's a terrible coach and got essentially the same roster to finish third.

Hopefully he breaks his streak next season.

Needs to reinvent himself

What do you suggest?

The tough guy act didn't work as the players all sulked and brought out their egg shells nonsense.

The nice guy act didn't work either, seemed forced and fake, as seen on the doco.

Needs to just smarten up, bring in some big gun assistants and start shopping around the problem players that think they own the club. Until then, he's on the same track as the last 3 years.

Yep agree, first player to go if we are serious about fixing our flimsy defence is Noffa, he is a liability I'd also move Brooks on and start a fresh maybe try signing Volkman or Tevita Harris.

I think we should go back to an attacking style of footy and I think Farah and Sheens can help Madge out in that area it's the only way we can compete we don't have the players to grind teams down and with the rules the way they are I can see us at least challenging some of the more structured sides.

 

[jrtiger]

man Hoops is a loser. uses every cliche in the book and carries on in his column that no one cares about and then says how much of an atrocity it is that Snoopy's been punted when he took care of the structures that saw us have the worst defensive season our club has had in the past 20 years. doesn't deserve to show his face on the Leichhardt hill let alone stand on it with the rest of us.