Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

Lot of buzzwords floating around on this forum, words like “rebuilding”, “youth”, “long term” etc..

The hard facts are Tim Sheens started coaching Tigers in 2003, showed promise in 2004 and won the GF in 2005. Please refresh my memory how many SOO players we had?

I remember reading statistically post 2005 Tigers were the most watched team on TV for years under sheens due to the attacking nature of the team. Did it win them another premiership? No. Was Sheens suited to that style of Footy?

Fast forward to WT under Madge. In his defence the NRL is constantly changing the rules. Today’s game is a lot faster and would have suited a Sheens type coach. Under South’s he had a monster pack at his disposal, he was suited to that team and that era hence the results.

Rugby League is one of the toughest sport in the world, these footy players are tough as they come. They don’t need fear instilled in them, they need someone to guide them to perform to the best of their ability in a team context. These are well paid professionals.
 
Also the argument that Madge can’t attract quality players may well be valid, but when was the last time the Wests Tigers did land a quality signing that wasn’t a young guy coming through or a LL/Matterson hidden gem type?

Don’t think Madge is the problem as such but upon recent reflection he may not be the solution either. We have seen what the players can do, or for that matter can’t do in recent weeks.

The game against the rabbits shows we do have something competitive in us as Madge says every week, though the question is why do we have good line speed and backing each other up for one week, then arm grabs and disinterest the next? I’m sure Madge would love the answer as to why the players decide to play some weeks and don’t other weeks as his current employment depends on it, but his guess is as good as everyone else’s.

Any neutral fan I’ve talked to thinks Madge is not the problem, considering we have so much money tied up on Mbye/Packer who were not his signings from memory. Obviously part of Madges problem is he is struggling to get the best out of a poor roster, though it could be argued that Bellamy would struggle with this lot.

Also people calling for him to drop people is warranted but remember only 28 players are eligible till after round 10 (including AJ/BJ injured) so everyone wanting to see Fitzgibbon or Tuilagi needs to be patient and understand he has limited people to pick from, though MCK at centre was not required given we had Cini/BJ who may have been better
 
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348285) said:
@telltails said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348283) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348271) said:
@telltails said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348249) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348202) said:
@telltails said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348192) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348179) said:
@telltails said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348176) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348175) said:
@tigerwest said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348174) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348173) said:
@cctw said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348123) said:
Usually don't make posts like these, but the "sack Madge" storyline NEEDS to stop. The leaks about crisis meetings, players not wanting to play under Madge - they're coming from the same sources. People need to wise up and stop and think about why there are these leaks and what the possible agenda is behind them.

It is simple, the leaks come from the board in order to pass the blame on to the coach and take the focus away from them and their bad decisions. It has happened with all the previous coaches. If the team isn't performing, the board will leak stories to the media so the media and the fans run with the story and blame the coach. It makes it easier to sack the coach with the media and the fans backing while avoiding all blame.

The main shining lights to come out of the first 6 rounds are Stefano, Laurie, Simpkin, Luciano and Doueihi - all young guys bought the to club by Maguire. What more can Maguire do? Beyond that, what is any other coach currently available going to do.

Meanwhile, all these leaks and stories do is give underperforming players an excuse - instead at looking at their own performances they will just blame the coach. Once again, because the board are looking to shift blame and save face the fans, players and coach are the ones that suffer.

The blame rightly rests with the coach. We know it is a results based business.

Deflecting blame to the Board and players is unhelpful.

We know leaks occur when the end is near. I hope Maguire goes quickly and with dignity. No one wants this to drag out.

Do you really believe a new coach will fix this and fix it quickly?

Yes.

We urgently need a new coach with excellent people mgmt skills like Sheens, Bennett, Cleary or Morris.

The new coach should have the benefit of the salary cap that is available next year.

Maguire will not attract the quality players required.

I'd like to see a sustained improvement in our defence, attack and game plan. This does not mean winning but being highly competitive providing a platform from which to build upon. Instead we have regressed.

Maguire has zero leadership on the field with senior players that don't show an ounce of passion on the field for the club or the jersey - LL excluded. The young players have no one to lead and the player who has been there the longest and in a key position seems more than content to hang around and accept the coaching merry go round. Great example to set.
Last year we saw what a quality player in Harry Grant can do for a team. At 22 he had more desire than the lot of our blokes, and the players followed him. We all know what they should be doing but they don't have to because they know who will wear the blame for their lack of desire and it won't be them. That is what we are about.

We have regressed.

Our roster is better than results indicate.

Tamou was purchased by Maguire to lead.

The other player you refer to performed well under Cleary.

Tamou is only leading because the obvious player who should be is incapable of leadership. Tamou has been at the club for five minutes, and yet the player most identified with the club in a key position, and is on the field for 80 mins at 26yrs old is still not up to it. He should be demanding the job.
Our roster is better than results indicate - based on what? A spine with a 19 and 20 year old with less than 10 FG games between them and a new halves pairing where the senior player is reluctant to lead?
Brooks could play well under anyone he has the skills and as a senior player he has a responsibility to set the standard. He is singley not to blame for our position no more than Maguire is but he has a responsiblity to own his deficiencies. The "He played well under Cleary" line is getting just as old as the Maguire won a premiership.

Tamou was purchased by Maguire as a leader. Has he been jettisoned by Maguire already?

And being flogged by Manly, not considered a genuine premiership threat, is hardly indicative of our roster strength.

Brooks will be another WTs disaster story going on to success at another club if he leaves.

I don't believe Maguire can attract quality players required and in any case it would be a futile exercise with the coaching, tactics, defensive structures in place

The approach to Sam Burgess story if true reaffirms a coaching change is needed.

No need to worry about losing Brooks already stated he "is not going anywhere" - content just where he is.


Maybe he loves the club. Terrible thing for players to feel.

Keeps the passion well hidden.

Idk what you expect from him, he’s a quiet guy, it’s just who is. I’ve been saying for years it’s his biggest flaw. He takes his off field personality onto the field. Has no killer instinct.

I think he has got a killer instinct but it needs to be triggered - tough as. As the senior player he has to lead it's a given - yet there is an obvious disconnect on the field - no energy when we need a lift. I'm over him being blamed every week - no good for him or us.
Hastings may provide that direction needed
 
@tiger5150 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348251) said:
@bigsiro said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348168) said:
@jirskyr
If given time, the Brad Arthur comparison might be right...no idea...
Re ***Ricky Stuart, IMO the jury is still out on him as a coach*** (maybe it's personal bias, but he irritates me...)
The Roosters team he coached was a team that was already making finals and Grand Finals; a team stacked with all-time talent. They really should have won more.
Likewise his team at Canberra ***now*** is pretty damn good.

I'd like to think that if Madge had either of those teams now we wouldn't be talking about sacking him.

The jury is well and truly in on Sticky. He is coaching a team with no attractive virtues (who wants to live in Canberra instead of Sydney or Qld?), no particular money (no Politis/Crowe or Hagipetalis for that matter) and has used his football brain to establish a team that ALWAYS competes for the 8. Look at his squad, how many established stars has he pinched from elsewhere. He has built that team.

You use the fact that the Canberra team he is coaching is "pretty damn good" to denigrate his abilities. How do you think that team was put together?

I'm not a critic of Stuart, but we cannot ignore that he had a very poor track record in the middle of his career. Starting with Sharks, until now, Stuart has made the finals 4 times in 12 campaigns (33%). Including Roosters, it becomes 7 finals in 17 campaigns (41%).

Currently Madge is 4 finals in 8 campaigns, better than Stuart at basically any point in his career except that first Roosters campaign. Even at Raiders, where he undoubtedly built his side, he is 3 finals in 7 years.

The thing about Ricky is he has been given time to develop that Raiders squad. He made the finals once in the first 5 years, but then he made the finals a second time and was Dally M Coach of the year.

I personally think exactly the same applies to Madge, I think he's potentially a good coach but he's not always going to get results year on year, and I think he needs time to develop a team that marches to the beat of his drum. I think Brad Arthur and Stuart, even Cleary, have shown that decent coaches can get results if given enough time and resources.

Madge has had 2 years and 7 rounds with Tigers. It makes for ordinary reading, but it's barely more time than John Morris has had. None of Madge's predecessors have managed to get Tigers into the finals since Sheens. By contrast, all 5 coaches at Canberra before Stuart had their teams regularly in the finals (Sheens 8/9 times, Meninga 3/5, Matt Elliott 4/5, Neil Henry 1/2, David Furner 2/5).
 
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.
 
@sadtiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348315) said:
Lot of buzzwords floating around on this forum, words like “rebuilding”, “youth”, “long term” etc..

The hard facts are Tim Sheens started coaching Tigers in 2003, showed promise in 2004 and won the GF in 2005. Please refresh my memory how many SOO players we had?

I remember reading statistically post 2005 Tigers were the most watched team on TV for years under sheens due to the attacking nature of the team. Did it win them another premiership? No. Was Sheens suited to that style of Footy?

Fast forward to WT under Madge. In his defence the NRL is constantly changing the rules. Today’s game is a lot faster and would have suited a Sheens type coach. Under South’s he had a monster pack at his disposal, he was suited to that team and that era hence the results.

Rugby League is one of the toughest sport in the world, these footy players are tough as they come. They don’t need fear instilled in them, they need someone to guide them to perform to the best of their ability in a team context. These are well paid professionals.

I enjoyed reading your post. I wish Sheens was here today.
 
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348330) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.

JAC wants to come back to Sydney
Latrell wanted fullback money and got it at souths
 
From memory Madge had a big role in bringing Simpkin over when he first signed, but I may be wrong and couldn’t find any supporting evidence but I hope the club don’t lose Simpkin if we send Madge away is all
 
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348336) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348330) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.

JAC wants to come back to Sydney
Latrell wanted fullback money and got it at souths

And Matterson and Aloiai wanted more money. None of the examples say anything about coaching quality.
 
We all agree that WT team roster is (sorry to use a well worn pun) a “Bus” ..... that obviously is in need of quite a few new parts and is in state of repair.

That much should have been obvious well before the season started.

Most of us agreed that we had a good mechanic and he had good support staff.

We also I believe agreed through experience that top line replacement parts are hard to get without breaking the bank. We tried that approach before and the bloody thing just keept on breaking down.

So a decision was to try a different approach ..... purchase new off the shelf untried replacement parts ..... two or three for each item needed replacing .... but at reasonable cost. It’s a hit and miss approach that may take longer but it delivers as we still have money in the bank if things don’t work out.

So things have not worked out on the surface but it seems that there is potential for success ..... as some parts in test vehicles are working and working well they just need time to develop. You know what they say about life there is no gain without pain..... and I know we are all experiencing it in spades.

Now the masses are calling for heads of the very people who have this process in place ..... replace them all! Get new in and give them the Bus they’ll fix it..... just like Bennet did at Dragons and Knights. Just like Bellamy did when he was called to bring NSW SOO trophy. Just like Seibold and Walters at the Broncos.

OK let’s throw it all out and sun will shine ..... bull dust theories which are repeated at nostrum in both sporting arena and business over and over again.

So that’s my bit about this ..... But please ..... For all those who are calling for .......

![6EA61869-35AC-4C35-AA40-5D608AAD054F.png](/assets/uploads/files/1619482543671-6ea61869-35ac-4c35-aa40-5d608aad054f.png)

Please proceed ........
 
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348336) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348330) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.

JAC wants to come back to Sydney
Latrell wanted fullback money and got it at souths

Trell got $300k less
 
Why Tigers need to stick with Maguire's rebuilding program
Author
Brad Walter
NRL.com Senior Reporter
Timestamp
Mon 26 Apr 2021, 08:21 PM
Brad Walter

The Wests Tigers are hoping Jackson Hastings can have a similar impact to Canberra’s signing of English stars Josh Hodgson and Elliott Whitehead by becoming a circuit breaker for the club’s recruitment ambitions.

After falling short in attempts to sign the likes of Latrell Mitchell and Josh Addo-Carr, the Tigers have been forced to target young talent for their rebuilding program but recent results are testing the patience of the club’s hierarchy.

The worst start to a Tigers season since former Parramatta CEO Denis Fitzgerald predicted in 1999 that “two struggling clubs getting together” would create a “struggling joint venture with no great long term future” has sparked speculation about the future of coach Michael Maguire.

Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis and CEO Justin Pascoe refuted a report of crisis meetings that could result in Maguire’s axing after Sunday’s 40-6 thrashing by Manly but did not guarantee he would serve out the remaining two years of his contract.

However, sacking a fifth coach in nine years is unlikely to solve a problem that can be best exemplified by the fact that Hastings, the 2019 Super League Man of Steel, is arguably the club’s biggest signing since Adam Blair in 2012.

Put simply, Concord is not a destination of choice for NRL stars and the Tigers have always struggled to attract big-name players, with their biggest signings being the likes of Jarrod McCracken, Terry Hill, John Hopoate and Owen Craigie in 2000.

In the two decades since, the only real success the Tigers have enjoyed was when Tim Sheens developed a team of talented youngsters headed by Benji Marshall and Robbie Farah into a premiership-winning force in 2005.

Yet it is largely forgotten that Sheens only took charge of the Tigers in 2003 after then St Helens mentor Ian Millward and Broncos assistant coach Craig Bellamy rejected the job following the sacking of Terry Lamb.

Sheens also guided the Tigers to top four finishes in 2010 and 2011 before being sacked a year later and they have not qualified for the finals in the nine seasons since under Mick Potter, Jason Taylor, Ivan Cleary or Maguire.

Worse, the Tigers have been unable to retain home-grown stars James Tedesco, Aaron Woods, Mitchell Moses and Ryan Papenhuyzen in recent seasons because they saw brighter futures at the Roosters, Bulldogs, Eels or Storm.

The good news for Wests Tigers fans is that there now appears to be another crop of talented youngsters coming through the ranks, with the club’s Jersey Flegg team being undefeated and the Wests Magpies NSW Cup side sitting in second place.

However, patience is required as the Tigers have one of the most inexperienced rosters in the NRL as they attempt to rebuild under Maguire by recruiting the likes of Daine Laurie, Adam Doueihi, Luciano Leilua, Stefano Utoikamanu, and Shawn Blore.

All are promising talents but of the Tigers spine Laurie has made just 10 NRL appearances, Doueihi has played six of his 56 matches at five-eighth and injuries have limited hooker Jacob Liddle to 11 games in the past two season.

Teenage hooker Jake Simpkin made his NRL debut two weeks ago, while 2019 Queensland Under 18s team-mate Reece Hoffman received a taste of the top grade last season at centre

Winger Tommy Talau has played 20 NRL matches, Utoikamanu, utility Billy Walters and winger Asu Kepaoa 10 games apiece, prop Tom Amone nine and Blore and fellow second-rower Alex Seyfarth five each.

Former Australian schoolboys five-eighth Jock Madden and centre Zac Cini, NSW Under 18s representative William Kei and Kiwi second-rowers Kelma Tuilagii and Tukimihia Simpkins are waiting for their NRL debuts.

Hastings will boost the experience and competitiveness in the playmaking roles next season and Wests Tigers will be hoping his recruitment from Wigan has a similar impact to Canberra’s signing of Hodgson in 2015.

The Raiders were struggling to attract representative stars before luring Hodgson from the Super League and they signed Whitehead a year later followed by their English Test team-mates John Bateman in 2019 and George Williams last season.

The Tigers are in a similar position after being turned down by Mitchell and Addo-Carr in recent seasons and have also had to look to England to sign a representative star, with Hastings returning to the NRL in 2022 on a two-year deal.

After leaving Manly in 2018 following a falling-out with coach Trent Barrett and senior players, Hastings has matured during stints with Salford and Wigan and played four Tests for Great Britain under Wayne Bennett in 2019.

The 25-year-old St George Illawarra junior, who qualifies for England through his grandmother, has featured in the past two Super League grand finals and won the 2019 Man of Steel award as the competition’s player of the year.

Lack of experience bites hard. The signing of Hastings will not impact on the future of halfback Luke Brooks, who along with Maguire has been the main target of criticism after each of the Tigers' six losses in their opening seven matches.

There have been some good performances among the defeats, including last week’s 18-14 loss to South Sydney, and for the first 25 minutes of Sunday’s ANZAC Day clash with Manly the signs were promising.

However, Wests Tigers do not have any players of the calibre or experience of Tom and Jake Trbojevic or Daly Cherry-Evans and the Sea Eagles scored 40 unanswered points after trailing 6-0 until the 29th minute.

Besides Brooks, the only other Tigers players to have played more than than 100 NRL games were captain James Tamou, prop Joe Ofahengaue, centre James Roberts, winger David Nofoaluma and bench utility Moses Mbye.

Ofahengaue and Roberts were signed on cut price deals after being released by Brisbane and Souths respectively, while Mbye has been given permission to find a new club before his contract expires at the end of next season. With such an inexperienced roster, Tamou was signed this season to provide leadership after being squeezed out of Penrith due to salary cap restraints.

Maguire, who led Souths to a premiership in 2014, has spent the first two years of his tenure at Wests Tigers trying to restructure a salary cap weighed down by big-money deals for the likes of Mbye, Josh Reynolds, Russell Packer and Ben Matulino.

Canterbury were in a similar position but new coach Trent Barrett has been able to recruit young stars Kyle Flanagan, Corey Allan and Nick Cotric, with Matt Burton and Addo-Carr joining the Bulldogs next season.
Barrett said after Canterbury’s first win under his coaching last Saturday night that he wouldn’t be “bullied into making rash decisions in who we sign and looking for short-term fixes”.

Despite speculation about his future, Maguire is confident that he has the backing of the Hagipantelis and Pascoe to do the same.

"I have spoken to everyone within the organisation on where we are taking the club," Maguire told SEN on Monday."We are very focused on building not only the top but also the underneath."We are changing around where the club has been in the past and that has been through the squad itself. "We have brought in a lot of younger guys, and I have had to let go of some players just to get things balanced out."

NSW Origin hooker Damien Cook, who played under Maguire at Souths, backed his former coach to turn Wests Tigers around. "You can't be chopping and changing and swapping the coaches every second year," Cook said.
 
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348290) said:
@diedpretty said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348229) said:
@willow said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348193) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348175) said:
@tigerwest said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348174) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348173) said:
@cctw said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348123) said:
Usually don't make posts like these, but the "sack Madge" storyline NEEDS to stop. The leaks about crisis meetings, players not wanting to play under Madge - they're coming from the same sources. People need to wise up and stop and think about why there are these leaks and what the possible agenda is behind them.

It is simple, the leaks come from the board in order to pass the blame on to the coach and take the focus away from them and their bad decisions. It has happened with all the previous coaches. If the team isn't performing, the board will leak stories to the media so the media and the fans run with the story and blame the coach. It makes it easier to sack the coach with the media and the fans backing while avoiding all blame.

The main shining lights to come out of the first 6 rounds are Stefano, Laurie, Simpkin, Luciano and Doueihi - all young guys bought the to club by Maguire. What more can Maguire do? Beyond that, what is any other coach currently available going to do.

Meanwhile, all these leaks and stories do is give underperforming players an excuse - instead at looking at their own performances they will just blame the coach. Once again, because the board are looking to shift blame and save face the fans, players and coach are the ones that suffer.

The blame rightly rests with the coach. We know it is a results based business.

Deflecting blame to the Board and players is unhelpful.

We know leaks occur when the end is near. I hope Maguire goes quickly and with dignity. No one wants this to drag out.

Do you really believe a new coach will fix this and fix it quickly?

Yes.

We urgently need a new coach with excellent people mgmt skills like Sheens, Bennett, Cleary or Morris.

The new coach should have the benefit of the salary cap that is available next year.

Maguire will not attract the quality players required.

I'd like to see a sustained improvement in our defence, attack and game plan. This does not mean winning but being highly competitive providing a platform from which to build upon. Instead we have regressed.

I think Madge may well be part of the problem, but the bigger issue IS the board - things need to be cleaned out at the top before any meaningful change below can be fully realised. We jump into another coach right now, nothing much will change, they'll have a roster they aren't happy with and we're back to square one.


You are right in saying the board is the problem however the board isn't going to change - they would have to vote themselves out and that is not going to happen. Wests Ashfield run the show and answer to no one. Perfect example is Mick Lubinskas. One week after being re elected to his positions Mick was removed from the Wests Magpies Football club and removal from WT board for supposedly having his say on how he thought Wt and Wests Magpies should be moving forward. To date there has been no announcement from either WT or Wests Ashfield about his removal. The WT board is merely a puppet with Wests Ashfield pulling the strings.

Didn't Mick L get removed because W Ashfield was keen to put Canterbury Cup back to wests tigers and Mick was like over my dead body so they removed him ?


Thats what the consensus of opinion was but there has been no official reason given. The point i am making though is that Wests Ashfield are a law unto themselves. Mick was re elected but because they didn't like what he said they removed him. So the point is nothing is going to change at board level for WT unless Wests Ashfield wants it to.
 
@hobbo1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348350) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348336) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348330) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.

JAC wants to come back to Sydney
Latrell wanted fullback money and got it at souths

Trell got $300k less

he still wanted to play full back and that was not happening at Roosters and he wanted to play with Walker gagai and the like.
 
@diedpretty said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348354) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348290) said:
@diedpretty said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348229) said:
@willow said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348193) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348175) said:
@tigerwest said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348174) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348173) said:
@cctw said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348123) said:
Usually don't make posts like these, but the "sack Madge" storyline NEEDS to stop. The leaks about crisis meetings, players not wanting to play under Madge - they're coming from the same sources. People need to wise up and stop and think about why there are these leaks and what the possible agenda is behind them.

It is simple, the leaks come from the board in order to pass the blame on to the coach and take the focus away from them and their bad decisions. It has happened with all the previous coaches. If the team isn't performing, the board will leak stories to the media so the media and the fans run with the story and blame the coach. It makes it easier to sack the coach with the media and the fans backing while avoiding all blame.

The main shining lights to come out of the first 6 rounds are Stefano, Laurie, Simpkin, Luciano and Doueihi - all young guys bought the to club by Maguire. What more can Maguire do? Beyond that, what is any other coach currently available going to do.

Meanwhile, all these leaks and stories do is give underperforming players an excuse - instead at looking at their own performances they will just blame the coach. Once again, because the board are looking to shift blame and save face the fans, players and coach are the ones that suffer.

The blame rightly rests with the coach. We know it is a results based business.

Deflecting blame to the Board and players is unhelpful.

We know leaks occur when the end is near. I hope Maguire goes quickly and with dignity. No one wants this to drag out.

Do you really believe a new coach will fix this and fix it quickly?

Yes.

We urgently need a new coach with excellent people mgmt skills like Sheens, Bennett, Cleary or Morris.

The new coach should have the benefit of the salary cap that is available next year.

Maguire will not attract the quality players required.

I'd like to see a sustained improvement in our defence, attack and game plan. This does not mean winning but being highly competitive providing a platform from which to build upon. Instead we have regressed.

I think Madge may well be part of the problem, but the bigger issue IS the board - things need to be cleaned out at the top before any meaningful change below can be fully realised. We jump into another coach right now, nothing much will change, they'll have a roster they aren't happy with and we're back to square one.


You are right in saying the board is the problem however the board isn't going to change - they would have to vote themselves out and that is not going to happen. Wests Ashfield run the show and answer to no one. Perfect example is Mick Lubinskas. One week after being re elected to his positions Mick was removed from the Wests Magpies Football club and removal from WT board for supposedly having his say on how he thought Wt and Wests Magpies should be moving forward. To date there has been no announcement from either WT or Wests Ashfield about his removal. The WT board is merely a puppet with Wests Ashfield pulling the strings.

Didn't Mick L get removed because W Ashfield was keen to put Canterbury Cup back to wests tigers and Mick was like over my dead body so they removed him ?


Thats what the consensus of opinion was but there has been no official reason given. The point i am making though is that Wests Ashfield are a law unto themselves. Mick was re elected but because they didn't like what he said they removed him. So the point is nothing is going to change at board level for WT unless Wests Ashfield wants it to.

Wests Ashfield drive the place we can't do anything about that. No more western suburbs Magpies or Balmain tigers it's been 20 years.
People can become wests ashfield members as a balmain football club member I got transferred over as a wests ashfield member
 
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348346) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348336) said:
@tilllindemann said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348330) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348297) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348211) said:
@gnr4life said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348199) said:
@tiger-tragic said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348198) said:
@rex2ce said in [Sack Madge](/post/1348185) said:
@truetiger said in [Sack Madge](/post/1347176) said:
If Madge goes,sobeit,we move on with a new coach and hopefully he has success that atm we are not getting...
However,if he has results the same as Madge,do we judge him the same way and demand he gets sacked after 2/3 seasons with no finals and nothing but whinging,moaning and bellittling him as we have Madge..where does that leave us...IN THE SAME PLACE...
Madge has developed the junior pathway,signed talented young players mixed in with older players..he is trying to mend a broken club left shattered by sacked coaches a coach who was "on the bus'' and spent ridiculous amounts on players he wanted that would suit his coaching style and then jumped off the bus mid stream to find something better which he always had..his son at Panthers..
I can understand the disappointment by many on here,I also see that Madge can coach players to become NRL level players,Harry Grant comes to mind,Laurie was a great get just as we needed a fullback and is doing well...
We have a very young immature roster with experience mixed in,Im more than happy to see the end result after this season before supporting the "sack Madge"squad..
We also have a number of origin players,Tamou,Joe O,Mbye,Roberts and they are maybe not coping with the youth surrounding them,who really knows what mentally is happening with the team who are under pressure to perform,the seasoned players must react positively to their performances so as the younger ones become tougher NRL performers playing with heart and soul for the jersey and understanding what it takes to play at this level...I just dont think its all Madges fault,his staff,players as well all contribute to the lack of success we are having.....


Elevate Maguire to coaching director, bring in Flanagan or Morris , everyone saves face

What's the go with Morris suddenly being mentioned as a competent NRL coach? It shows how desperate the WT lens at judging competence has become. And, his Sharks mate Flanagan is a drug-cheating bogan. I want neither of them anywhere near the Tigers thanks.


Morris is unproven. We’re the last club that an unproven coach can make his name. Even premiership winning coaches are taking the club backwards.

As opposed to Maguire who is proven (at what)?

he has won a comp a long time ago but still has. The game has just passed him by now.
All these players didn't want to play for Madge
Matterson
Aloia
Latrell
JAC

they all talk, he is.obviously not a man manager

By the same logic, Bellamy isn't a man manager because JAC wants to leave. Robinson is a bad coach because Latrell left.

JAC wants to come back to Sydney
Latrell wanted fullback money and got it at souths

And Matterson and Aloiai wanted more money. None of the examples say anything about coaching quality.

Matterson didn't want to play injured apparently he was pressured to play, look at him he is a concussion wreck now
 
Missing Latrell really hurts honestly. That one signing could have changed everything for us. He's been so good this year. I know someone who is closely involved with the club and everyone involved was pretty confident we'd gotten him too.
 
There are a few people on here that are loyal to Madge and I applaud that but he hasn't learnt from his dumping at Souths so it's time to look for a replacement. I don't like Flanagan but he's the logical choice out of the current crop waiting to coach
 
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