Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[pawsandclaws1]

Shane Richardson put his 2 cents worth in this morning on Ch 9. I'm not sure what to make of it. Ch 9 parceled it as support but it was qualified. Basically, WTs would be mad to get rid of Madge. But if your going to do it, do it at end of season.

 

[Speed2burn]

As soon as the possession started to even out manly went stuff this and had blokes isolating defenders/quick play the balls/enter tommy turbo and we were cooked.

Right.
So all that above is restricted by a rigid grinding gameplan is it....

I like how you edited out the most important part of my post lol

Yes we play high completion grind football. 4 hit ups and a bomb on last

I like how your ignoring what I quoted.

I know the style of football we play. But.
Your telling me we can’t do quick play the balls, isolate defenders etc because we play a boring style.

I disagree, they are efforts on an individual basis. Nothing to do with the team structure.

When are we going to start chancing our arm a bit more? Run on the last? A short grubber kick near the opposition goal line for Jimmy?


At the start of the year we salivated at the thought of Jimmy the Jet / Laurie steaming onto a Luciano offload. Haven’t seen it once

Are the players scared they’ll cop a spray if they make an error?

Agree
I’m over the robotic plays like dying with the ball for a handover..

Don’t forget the Alex Twal 4th tackle hit up ... riveting
Our defence is a shambles and we can barely score a point anyway what’s the worst that could happen?

I’d rather win 40-38 each week ..at least it would be entertaining.

Usually a plodder takes a hit up on the fourth to attract multiple defenders which creates space either side of the ruck for the strike team ..
But when Tamou the turtle gets put on his back it’s not very effective.

Like you said ... we just seem so robotic...Madgeball

Nobody pushes up in support because the players rush to get in position for the next play

 

[tony soprano]

Shane Richardson put his 2 cents worth in this morning on Ch 9. I'm not sure what to make of it. Ch 9 parceled it as support but it was qualified. Basically, WTs would be mad to get rid of Madge. But if your going to do it, do it at end of season.

Yeah I saw that he said that while sprucing his new financial adviser business specialising in giving advice to footy players.

 

[Telltails]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

 

[The_Patriot]

Ive come around to the argument that the issue is our senior playing group. Our most experienced players. If you took our top 6 senior guys, the ones who are meant to get us out of trouble and lead us around the field and compare them to the rest of the comp we start to see why we are where we are.

Its these guys who set the culture so to speak. Its these guys who get you back in a game, its these guys who get you home holding a lead.

We are recruiting very well from the ground up and have talent coming through the grades, some of them like Simpkin are already here but my question would be **how do we improve our senior playing group?**

 

[Speed2burn]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

I’m not calling for his head I think it’s the last thing we should do

I just think changing up the predictable block play attack wouldn’t hurt. Or maybe get a tactician assistant coach to come help him out

 

[twentyforty]

When the legendary coach of the green bay packers, Vince Lombardi said winning isn’t everything, he’d probably never even heard of a group of people commonly referred to as Wests Tigers supporters.
What has happened since last year? I remember we unanimously agreed that successes in 2021 would not be limited to the figures on the scoreboard?
Madge is the second coach in our short history to take a long term view of installing long term success, in exchange for some short term pain. To be an overnight success takes a long time and I repeat, if we can keep Madge and the football admin long enough and continue to build on each small success, they will get us to a GF.

I think the actual quote was "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing"


I think you’re right Avo. But the version I prefer is ..
“Winning isn’t everything, but the will to win is (everything)”

Love this quote. We’ve got a young team with plenty of upside. I think it’s more about how we are losing then actually us losing . They half lost me with that performance against the cowboys, then completely lost me with that capitulation against manly.

Contrary to the ramblings of the nrl 360 crew, you can see direction and construction in how the team is coming together. With the exception of Moma, there has been purpose in those players let go and the opportunities provided for younger players.
I imagine Madge , Hartigan and others would have agreed to go down this slower route to establish a more lasting level of success knowing the short term pain was to come. We just need to stay the course, keep turning over the highly paid experienced players who offer very little in leadership. Benji was one of those. Keep replacing them with players with the determination and keep ups killing them. Sure we’re losing games and we’re drifting in and out, but a small price to pay for long term success. Our lower grades are already showing signs of a brighter future.

 

[tony soprano]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

 

[TrueTiger]

Before the season began, we were predicted to finish towards the bottom of the ladder.

A lot of people thought we'd challenge for the 8, including myself. Our roster isn't as bad as our results suggest.


Our roster IS that bad.
For the last 10 years the same people (mostly) are in denial of this and predicted we would be top 8, often top 4!
It's as unrealistic as Bulldogs fans who thought they would make the 8.
Heart over head, or something like that...

I'm pretty realistic about us as a team and haven't been confident of making the 8 for years. In saying that, I think our roster is a lot better than our results suggest. It's the best roster we've had in quite a few years imo.

Agree, just hard to explain why they are not having a go at least?

My opinion is there is a huge disconnect between the playing group and the coach.

Our current squad unfortunately would react more positively to a softly-softly, bum-patting coach. The soft as butter style fairy coach like Ivan.
Maguire is too hard for these blokes......hell he would be odds-on to bash nearly all of them to a man if it came to a stink. That sums the current situation up.

Ivan's approach seems to be working for the Panthers.

Chair throwing and other displays of anger do not necessarily assist in getting the message across to players.

The only reason Ivans approach is working is because Gould put a fantastic recruitment and junior development in place..
Des Hassler tore off dressing room doors...how is his team going now he has his major players back...keep up the hate for Madge Paws..eventually you will convince yourself...

Ivan's approach had more success at WTs as well TT.

Have you noticed the difference in the football played in our lower grades to our NRL team?

I don't know why we bother writing about marquee signings. It's fanciful really. Even if our offer is similar to another club, don't you think for example a player like Staggs will note Roberts being starved so we can have more of the robotic hit-ups and bomb favoured by Maguire?

Paws I can honestly see why you and many others are angry and disappointed in our team at the moment..
But just stop for a moment and understand why Madge is playing a robotic style,firstly it is a defensive structure to get players to run hard up the middle with a kick and chase on the last...most teams do it and after they master it they then sharpen the attack...we must understand that we have much youth still learning and developing at NRL level..
The thing that has many coaches baffled is the rule changes and having to work out how to develop a game plan to counter the rules...
Just a thought,Manly were terrible to start the season with,after the star players back and getting used to the new rules they are coming good,Raiders are in a slump as well with a very good team...
Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer...lets judge at seasons end....

 

[tony soprano]

Before the season began, we were predicted to finish towards the bottom of the ladder.

A lot of people thought we'd challenge for the 8, including myself. Our roster isn't as bad as our results suggest.


Our roster IS that bad.
For the last 10 years the same people (mostly) are in denial of this and predicted we would be top 8, often top 4!
It's as unrealistic as Bulldogs fans who thought they would make the 8.
Heart over head, or something like that...

I'm pretty realistic about us as a team and haven't been confident of making the 8 for years. In saying that, I think our roster is a lot better than our results suggest. It's the best roster we've had in quite a few years imo.

Agree, just hard to explain why they are not having a go at least?

My opinion is there is a huge disconnect between the playing group and the coach.

Our current squad unfortunately would react more positively to a softly-softly, bum-patting coach. The soft as butter style fairy coach like Ivan.
Maguire is too hard for these blokes......hell he would be odds-on to bash nearly all of them to a man if it came to a stink. That sums the current situation up.

Ivan's approach seems to be working for the Panthers.

Chair throwing and other displays of anger do not necessarily assist in getting the message across to players.

The only reason Ivans approach is working is because Gould put a fantastic recruitment and junior development in place..
Des Hassler tore off dressing room doors...how is his team going now he has his major players back...keep up the hate for Madge Paws..eventually you will convince yourself...

Ivan's approach had more success at WTs as well TT.

Have you noticed the difference in the football played in our lower grades to our NRL team?

I don't know why we bother writing about marquee signings. It's fanciful really. Even if our offer is similar to another club, don't you think for example a player like Staggs will note Roberts being starved so we can have more of the robotic hit-ups and bomb favoured by Maguire?

Paws I can honestly see why you and many others are angry and disappointed in our team at the moment..
But just stop for a moment and understand why Madge is playing a robotic style,firstly it is a defensive structure to get players to run hard up the middle with a kick and chase on the last...most teams do it and after they master it they then sharpen the attack...we must understand that we have much youth still learning and developing at NRL level..
The thing that has many coaches baffled is the rule changes and having to work out how to develop a game plan to counter the rules...
Just a thought,Manly were terrible to start the season with,after the star players back and getting used to the new rules they are coming good,Raiders are in a slump as well with a very good team...
Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer...lets judge at seasons end....

Coaching is an issue too why can Payten turn it around it’s due to his coaching

 

[avocadoontoast]

Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer…lets judge at seasons end…

The issue with that TT is it has a big impact on next years recruitment. We have a fair bit of money to spend for next year and players we are going to target will want to know who the coach is. If we end the season with the spoon and then sack Madge, it’s too late.

 

[Telltails]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

 

[tony soprano]

Interesting that 360 mentioned lambkin feels like his not involved at all at nrl level and feels could do a lot more why isn’t Madge involving lambkin and Gardiner when their sides are doing so well and Madge so terribly

 

[Andyvee]

The work Madge and his crew have done over the last few years is starting to show dividends in the lower and junior grades. The mess and lack of direction the club had before Madge got here had no positive long term goal.

The positives are taking longer than expected to reach the NRL team. Hopefully Madge turns it around over the next few weeks, keeps the knives at bay, and completes the transformation of this weak club.

 

[rihannafan1]

The work Madge and his crew have done over the last few years is starting to show dividends in the lower and junior grades. The mess and lack of direction the club had before Madge got here had no positive long term goal.

The positives are taking longer than expected to reach the NRL team. Hopefully Madge turns it around over the next few weeks, keeps the knives at bay, and completes the transformation of this weak club.

So put him in a role where he can oversee things. His coaching isn't working.

 

[TrueTiger]

Sacking Madge isnt the answer,letting him do his job this year to mould an excellent youthful confident team is the answer…lets judge at seasons end…

The issue with that TT is it has a big impact on next years recruitment. We have a fair bit of money to spend for next year and players we are going to target will want to know who the coach is. If we end the season with the spoon and then sack Madge, it’s too late.

Well we will have to wait and see how this pans out in the next few weeks...we all have an opinion and ideas..it would be boring if we didnt....

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

 

[twentyforty]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

You can hope telltails, but the board has historically had a run of bad calls, which has put us in the hole we’re trying to climb out of. It wouldn’t surprise anyone if they continued on the same tack. The selection criteria is badly out of whack and possibly the main reason we have never really moved forward. I would rather hire skill sets, than emotionally and financially invested fans.

 

[avocadoontoast]

The sack Madge campaign comes largely from fans who have no accountabilty for the 600k it would cost to do it, with no guarantee that in the short term any replacement could provide a quick fix to a problem that has taken years to create. I would hope those in control would be far more measured in decision making around this than reacting to emotional fans who have all the solutions- but in truth don't.

It came from the board embarrassed about results.

And has gained traction by a percentage of a vocal fan base understandably sick of losing.

And that traction is justified. I accept losses but wanted improvement in defence, attack, player's skills, discipline and composure. In short, confirmation we are on an upward trajectory. That has not happened. You worry about the cost to the business of acting. I worry about the cost to the business of not acting.

The pick and stick mentality works if there's evidence of some improvement, but in every measurable metric we've gone backwards and continue to do so.

 

[earl]

how do we improve our senior playing group?

Juniors coming through and taking on those roles. Nofo is one of our senior players now. Maybe he won't be in the future.

I think we just have to keep getting juniors and giving them opportunities.

I suppose you also need good coaching but I reckon they get that. Madge's problem to me is a lack of inspiration when it comes to team selection and game plans. I think the way we are building though is good enough. We shouldn't be going after big dollar marquee players because we end up getting second or third raters that we pay marquee dollars toll and then we go backwards.