@needaname said in [Madge Maguire \- Mega Thread](/post/1461654) said:
I know the common rhetoric is that Madge is past it and he is still stuck in a coaching style that the game has moved on from. But in listening to Madge in all his messaging and even reading a lot of his comments from back before Souths got the premiership i understand that Madge isn’t the sort of coach that is going to train a team to out skill another team to a win.
Souths played with a fair bit of flair in 2012-2014 at times but they were also known as being tenacious, meticulous, fierce and sometimes dour.
It’s all about the mental state of the player for him and it seems as though he is trying to build that into the current Tigers playing squad.
I’m just not sure that was what the players want or need at the moment.
I’m not saying they should give in to the playing group but maybe the whole club needs to get away from the pressure of trying to be a big successful club and football team and go back to the basics and by that I mean, enjoying to play football again.
It’s hard to dig up the actual thoughts of Gus at the time of Ivan’s sacking and the appointment of Griffen but what is known is that Gus developed a plan to rebuild the Panthers in 2012 by identifying and encouraging a specific playing style that they thought would be successful at their elite junior level. Matt’s, SG and Flegg.
Quotes like ‘you need a core playing group that have grown up in the same systems, know each other and their strengths and weaknesses extremely well and have been brought up playing a style that suits them and the team and enables them to have success.
To complement that squad you recruit a couple of marquees to put around them and help them learn the way.
Players like, Merrin, Tamou, Maloney.
This is reflected in pretty much 3/4 of the current Sharks side and it’s evident in how well such a young side is playing together.
In 2012-2013 the first grade Panthers still needed to be re-engineered, rebuilt or whatever you call it.
Experienced players, a couple of rep boys on big contracts eating up a cap that just wouldn’t allow this revised team to take shape.
So in comes Ivan along with Gus moving on Elite players Lewis, Jennings and Gordon and recruiting a busload of ‘system’ players that aren’t individual standouts but have the right character and the enough talent to keep the team respectful whilst the real job brews away in the background ready to be matured by 2020.
A year later that same team of misfits and a couple of young talented locals in Moylan, RCG, Yeo and DWZ and recruited young talents Whare and Segeyaro are complemented by 2 experienced halves in Soward and Wallace and they end up one game of grandfinal.
The following season was tough for the panthers coming 2nd in the regular season the year before but suffering a horrendous injury toll even still after it all Gus shocks the rugby league world by sacking Ivan.
I remember listening him on the 9 coverage of the Grandfinal at the End of 2015 just prior of the sacking, he was almost in awe watching the Broncos play and credited a lot of that towards Anthony Griffen for ‘building’ up the Bones of the Broncos to make them ready for Bennett to add the final touches.
So in comes Griffen. And at first they see eye to eye. Gus had his issues with Ivan not playing enough Juniors in the club, holding them back and favouring a much more senior outfit and his famous quote that Ivan looked tired. He still believes it.
Griffen isn’t given much credit for his tenure during 2016-2018 despite making the top 6 each year with the side but what his legacy would most be known for is in bridging the gap between the junior talents and making them first graders. Hence what he did so well with the Broncos with the likes of Maguire, Mcullogh, Hunt, Glen and Gillett.
His greatest legacy is debuting the likes of Cleary, Fisher-Harris, Edwards, Leota and Kikau. But often his style of play was questioned. The Panthers were winning games but they looked like they were making it up on the spot. Ivan I believe was a much more structured coach and as a leader was more measured in his processes. I even believe that the case when he was here. I believe it was all just an unfortunate state of circumstances but one thing is for sure. Ivan implemented the same approach as he did In 2012–2013 at the Panthers in bringing in a busload of new players from different systems and different attitudes trying to reshape our culture both on the field and off the field. He managed to restart the team and made the squad competitive for the first half of 2018. Unfortunately old habits die hard and it certainly started to creep back into the tigers in the middle part of the season only to mount a comeback at the end of the season that was unfortunately a little too late.
I wouldn’t say Madge came in with so much promise but he did come into a team with a very limited premiership window. Robbie and Matolino retired end of his first year followed by Lawrence and let’s face it Packer decided he was done around the same time.
I’m not sure why I’m writing this, sometimes out of my own interest but if i was to get to the point it. It seems as there are coaches for Situations.
Although Ivan has shown though with his most recent run of successes that a coach can be multifaceted and even though it’s common to want to put a label on a coach based on their outputs as either being a rebuilder, a developer or a polisher.
Before 2020 you would of said that Ivan can only do one of the above and Gus actually doubted his ability to develop and strengthen a team and lift them from competitors to challengers to contenders.
Madge didn’t exactly walk into a ready made side at Souths but he did walk into a talented side at Souths capable of being reframed with the focus of going from a challenger to being a contender in the comp. As some have said the style employed is limited in its effect and eventually wears thin. Although after saying all this I’m still in too minds.
We have a premiership winning coach that knows the type of mentality of each individual in a team required to win a premiership and that is not something that should be dismissed lightly.
However like Ivan running his course in his first term at Penrith. Maybe the timing of those lessons aren’t just what the players need at this moment and the players need less of a head master and more of a substitute teacher to get the best out of them.
