Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[GNR4LIFE]

When's Bennett's time up at Souths? Isn't he done this year? Throw the sink at him...

He's not the coach he once was but he still has pulling power to attract quality players and he's a good man manager. He's done everything you can do in the game, sell it as a legacy move. He either gives us some sustained success or he does a Newcastle and leaves us in tatters which is no worse than where we currently are.

The issue that I see with Bennett is i believe he would be more concerned about his legacy than the long term future of the club. I think he would burn the place to the ground trying to get long term success. He also seems to revel in clubs imploding after he leaves.

Not trying to argue against every option. Its just there isn't a perfect option out there.

There isn’t much for him to burn down. This club is at rock bottom and couldn’t possibly sink any lower. We’d at least have a good chance of short term success. Whereas now there isn’t much for long or short term success.

Yeah I get the push for Bennett, I want long term success though. Making the finals for a couple of years and then crashing back to this is not enough for me. I want a decade of being close to the top of the game and I don't think Bennett provides that.

I also have a very dark thought that would be such a Wests Tigers thing to happen if we signed Bennett that maybe he is better off not coming for his own health.

What long term success do we look like having atm? None.

I didn't say we did, but we have some very good young talent coming through and hopefully the improvements in our pathways will help ensure that develops into quality 1st graders. I have more hope in that than a coaching change or signing big name players to dig us out of this mess.

Been hearing about young talent for years and years. But it’s always the same old story with the same results.

 

[Canberratiger]

I have always backed Madge but now there is too much of a smell around the place. If it was hard to attract players before, it would be impossible now.
The question is: how are we perceived around the league by other clubs and players? Apart from "They are a joke", is it the coach, set up, players, etc as to why no one wants to play there?
Surely someone on here can answer this to a degree.

Someone made a great point the other day. You can point the finger at him for not being able to sign marquee players, but when has this club ever been able to sign marquee players? You can probably count them on one hand. Not even Sheens was consistently bringing them to the club. We lost Tedesco and Woods under Cleary. Potter and JT didn’t have the money to do anything. It’s the club that is the issue. Madge is just a by-product.

I'm with you on that but is Madge currently why they don't want to come here or is it something else?
I am wondering if anyone who knows people around the game can shed some light on it? Like what is the chatter?
(Edit:Not meaning to be aggresive or anything to you @GNR4LIFE )

 

[TillLindemann]

So if Madge is gone then who?


Flanagan and his son? A more modern coach who can possibly attract players and improve the media perception (for a time) but who he questionable morals?


ciraldo? A rookie coach who will be thrown to the wolves after the first month if we aren’t winning?


Green? A failed coach who only really succeeded with a future immortal in the halves?


If the Qld expansion gets delayed (unlikely) then maybe Bennet is available for a few years but other than that the cupboard is pretty bare.

There are no better options available.

Early in the year people were begging for someone like Todd Payten and arguing he was a better coach than Madge. Look how that turned out for the Cowboys. "He's a better communicator/player manager", "he understands the modern game", bla bla.

We already have the coach we need. The problem has always been self-entitled useless plodders, and we are slowly and methodically getting rid of them and replacing them with talented youth. But because we as a club don't have realistic expectations of how long that takes, we'll turf our proven coach for a rookie who might be better chums with the self-entitled useless plodders.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I have always backed Madge but now there is too much of a smell around the place. If it was hard to attract players before, it would be impossible now.
The question is: how are we perceived around the league by other clubs and players? Apart from "They are a joke", is it the coach, set up, players, etc as to why no one wants to play there?
Surely someone on here can answer this to a degree.

Someone made a great point the other day. You can point the finger at him for not being able to sign marquee players, but when has this club ever been able to sign marquee players? You can probably count them on one hand. Not even Sheens was consistently bringing them to the club. We lost Tedesco and Woods under Cleary. Potter and JT didn’t have the money to do anything. It’s the club that is the issue. Madge is just a by-product.

I'm with you on that but is Madge currently why they don't want to come here or is it something else?
I am wondering if anyone who knows people around the game can shed some light on it? Like what is the chatter?

No one can give you a definitive answer, just educated guesses. My educated guess is he’s just one reason why no one wants to come here.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Hopefully the new coach gives our halfback a fatherly chat about 5th tackle options, short balls at the line to second rowers and his kicking game. It's all been garbage for years.

If Blore doesn't give Brooks a pair of Irish sunglasses over Mad Monday for his efforts on the weekend I'll be surprised.

Or he could just use him as Cleary did.

He still wasn't great under Cleary. The season he won the Dally M it was our lowest scoring season ever. Still is. It was our defence that kept us in the comp that year as it was also our best season for lowest points conceded.

Only one game in that season we galloped away to win. Scored above 24 points only three times that season. Yeah a shining example for our halfback.

The leading halfbacks such as Moses, DCE, Hughes and Cleary all have very good rosters around them. We've seen Tedesco, Moses, Woods, Simona and JAC leave WTs. Has there been like for like replacements?

Cleary played Brooks to his strength. Cleary is a very good coach regardless of your view on his departure from WTs. I don't see the same in Maguire, He seems a one size fits all type and we know with Brooks that will never work.

Madge is an even better coach, his resume tops Cleary's. Neither brought us any success.

 

[851]

As a coach, once you sit there making excuses and those excuses are the players you have at your disposal the following year. There really is no coming back from that.

That is it mate, he said he is the right coach to take us forward, he can't attract any good players, or any at all it seems, so he is working with what he has now plus the 2 ESL players next year.
How is next year going to be better, the trajectory is downward, not upward, it's time Madge, thanks but see you later

 

[cochise]

When's Bennett's time up at Souths? Isn't he done this year? Throw the sink at him...

He's not the coach he once was but he still has pulling power to attract quality players and he's a good man manager. He's done everything you can do in the game, sell it as a legacy move. He either gives us some sustained success or he does a Newcastle and leaves us in tatters which is no worse than where we currently are.

The issue that I see with Bennett is i believe he would be more concerned about his legacy than the long term future of the club. I think he would burn the place to the ground trying to get long term success. He also seems to revel in clubs imploding after he leaves.

Not trying to argue against every option. Its just there isn't a perfect option out there.

There isn’t much for him to burn down. This club is at rock bottom and couldn’t possibly sink any lower. We’d at least have a good chance of short term success. Whereas now there isn’t much for long or short term success.

Yeah I get the push for Bennett, I want long term success though. Making the finals for a couple of years and then crashing back to this is not enough for me. I want a decade of being close to the top of the game and I don't think Bennett provides that.

I also have a very dark thought that would be such a Wests Tigers thing to happen if we signed Bennett that maybe he is better off not coming for his own health.

What long term success do we look like having atm? None.

I didn't say we did, but we have some very good young talent coming through and hopefully the improvements in our pathways will help ensure that develops into quality 1st graders. I have more hope in that than a coaching change or signing big name players to dig us out of this mess.

Been hearing about young talent for years and years. But it’s always the same old story with the same results.

Flegg was undefeated and I believe the structures we are putting in place will help them develop into quality NRL players. I seen what happened when we went out and tried to purchase success, it is why we are where we are now.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

When's Bennett's time up at Souths? Isn't he done this year? Throw the sink at him...

He's not the coach he once was but he still has pulling power to attract quality players and he's a good man manager. He's done everything you can do in the game, sell it as a legacy move. He either gives us some sustained success or he does a Newcastle and leaves us in tatters which is no worse than where we currently are.

The issue that I see with Bennett is i believe he would be more concerned about his legacy than the long term future of the club. I think he would burn the place to the ground trying to get long term success. He also seems to revel in clubs imploding after he leaves.

Not trying to argue against every option. Its just there isn't a perfect option out there.

There isn’t much for him to burn down. This club is at rock bottom and couldn’t possibly sink any lower. We’d at least have a good chance of short term success. Whereas now there isn’t much for long or short term success.

Yeah I get the push for Bennett, I want long term success though. Making the finals for a couple of years and then crashing back to this is not enough for me. I want a decade of being close to the top of the game and I don't think Bennett provides that.

I also have a very dark thought that would be such a Wests Tigers thing to happen if we signed Bennett that maybe he is better off not coming for his own health.

What long term success do we look like having atm? None.

I didn't say we did, but we have some very good young talent coming through and hopefully the improvements in our pathways will help ensure that develops into quality 1st graders. I have more hope in that than a coaching change or signing big name players to dig us out of this mess.

Been hearing about young talent for years and years. But it’s always the same old story with the same results.

Flegg was undefeated and I believe the structures we are putting in place will help them develop into quality NRL players. I seen what happened when we went out and tried to purchase success, it is why we are where we are now.

That’s like saying one bad relationship scars you from ever dating again. If you aren’t looking to sign marquee players you might as well give it away, cos you are just making up the numbers.

 

[cochise]

When's Bennett's time up at Souths? Isn't he done this year? Throw the sink at him...

He's not the coach he once was but he still has pulling power to attract quality players and he's a good man manager. He's done everything you can do in the game, sell it as a legacy move. He either gives us some sustained success or he does a Newcastle and leaves us in tatters which is no worse than where we currently are.

The issue that I see with Bennett is i believe he would be more concerned about his legacy than the long term future of the club. I think he would burn the place to the ground trying to get long term success. He also seems to revel in clubs imploding after he leaves.

Not trying to argue against every option. Its just there isn't a perfect option out there.

There isn’t much for him to burn down. This club is at rock bottom and couldn’t possibly sink any lower. We’d at least have a good chance of short term success. Whereas now there isn’t much for long or short term success.

Yeah I get the push for Bennett, I want long term success though. Making the finals for a couple of years and then crashing back to this is not enough for me. I want a decade of being close to the top of the game and I don't think Bennett provides that.

I also have a very dark thought that would be such a Wests Tigers thing to happen if we signed Bennett that maybe he is better off not coming for his own health.

What long term success do we look like having atm? None.

I didn't say we did, but we have some very good young talent coming through and hopefully the improvements in our pathways will help ensure that develops into quality 1st graders. I have more hope in that than a coaching change or signing big name players to dig us out of this mess.

Been hearing about young talent for years and years. But it’s always the same old story with the same results.

Flegg was undefeated and I believe the structures we are putting in place will help them develop into quality NRL players. I seen what happened when we went out and tried to purchase success, it is why we are where we are now.

That’s like saying one bad relationship scars you from ever dating again. If you aren’t looking to sign marquee players you might as well give it away, cos you are just making up the numbers.

I didn't say we shouldn't look at signing marquee players, I'm saying that is not our way out of this mess. I am very happy happy to break the bank on a player but it needs to be the right player, a plyer that is going to make the place better. Not a player with issues that lessen the chances of them making a successful transition. To break the bank it has to be a player that would transform the club, a Brandon Smith, Harry Grant type player that you build your club around. You don't pay overs for players that can't do that.

 

[TillLindemann]

As a coach, once you sit there making excuses and those excuses are the players you have at your disposal the following year. There really is no coming back from that.

That is it mate, he said he is the right coach to take us forward, he can't attract any good players, or any at all it seems, so he is working with what he has now plus the 2 ESL players next year.
How is next year going to be better, the trajectory is downward, not upward, it's time Madge, thanks but see you later

Even if we don't sign any new players (which we always do over summer), the trajectory will be upwards due to us having such a young squad. Imagine if we started the year with Stefano playing as good as he ended the year - these blokes will get better. And swapping out a bludger like Mbye with a competitor like Hastings is an instant improvement. And whoever replaces Packer, be it a promoted junior or a Tariq Sims, will be another instant improvement.

 

[851]

I agree that Madge has to leave in order to allow the club to short circuit the recruitment spiral it’s been in. Above all what is critical is that the next $1.5m we have to spend for 2022 is spent well, it is the most important decision we have made since Cleary left. I feel for Madge, he’s obviously a great person but he really only has himself to blame. If he was improving players his job would not be on the line, the fact that results have gone backwards over the season show we are missing some quality recruits and Madge for whatever reason cannot recruit (players don’t come to a club because the CEO is impressive or they like the GM of football it surely is because they want to be coached).

So if Madge is gone then who?

1) Flanagan and his son? A more modern coach who can possibly attract players and improve the media perception (for a time) but who he questionable morals?

2) ciraldo? A rookie coach who will be thrown to the wolves after the first month if we aren’t winning?

3) **Green? A failed coach who only really succeeded with a future immortal in the halves?**

If the Qld expansion gets delayed (unlikely) then maybe Bennet is available for a few years but other than that the cupboard is pretty bare.

Everyone is quick to write off Green as a dud, and back Madge as a good coach, I don't get it, Madge won a comp in 2014 is a fact, Green won one in 2015 also a fact, both were sacked soon after doing so.
Both had great players at their disposal, but Green got the Cowboys to the grand final in 2017 without Matt Scott gone after round 4 and JT gone after origin, everyone wrote them off after that.
Whilst I don't want Green as coach, I see him as equal or better than Madge on what he has done.

 

[Le Tiger]

Anyone know if our assistant coaches are off contract too? Or if we sack Madge and pay him out we need to do the same for his assistants.

This review seems like an exercise by the board etc to have a narrative that it is all Madge's fault. They need a fall-guy.

I think Madge dug himself a hole by hiring assistants that he had worked with before rather than young coaches with fresh ideas.

Reality is that lead to us playing worse than ever. All year our tactics seemed off. But the young guys seem to like him. Tell Madge he can keep his job and have 1 final year to make the 8 or bust. But we need new assistants around him to do the tactics for the team.

 

[Terry T.Nuts]

The Harry Grant article praising Madge is a real insight into the quality of Madge. I have watched Madge run Kiwi training sessions in NZ and anyone who thinks he has no idea about defensive structures is on the glass bbq. He just unfortunately has a team of youngsters and reserve graders. But lets sack him get in Flanagan, Toovey write off another 2-3 years and start again, the very definition of insanity.

 

[Zach]

There is no doubt that if Madge does stay, we desperately need to get some new/young Assistant coaches to help him out, to take the load off. If anything, to the detriment of himself, Madge needs to take a back seat from doing everything, which i kind of get the impression that he does, and let someone else help out....

 

[cqtiger]

The main reason I think we should get rid of Maguire is our defensive issues. Each year under Maguire we go backwards, although some people will say we don’t have the quality of players. My thoughts are we don’t have the proper structures in place and the coach has been here for years.
Ditto for our ‘attack’.

In a preseason trial this year we played the roosters and their squad was mainly reserve graders or younger guys. Watching them play I couldn’t believe how organised they were. They played to a system that no matter who played they had confidence to step up and do their job.

Advance to late in the season and the roosters are playing finals and got their mainly with backup players in the team. Now look at our mob. That’s what they are … a mob.

We bring in young guys from reserves and they look lost.

Maguire does not have the answers.

 

[aturkey]

I agree that Madge has to leave in order to allow the club to short circuit the recruitment spiral it’s been in. Above all what is critical is that the next $1.5m we have to spend for 2022 is spent well, it is the most important decision we have made since Cleary left. I feel for Madge, he’s obviously a great person but he really only has himself to blame. If he was improving players his job would not be on the line, the fact that results have gone backwards over the season show we are missing some quality recruits and Madge for whatever reason cannot recruit (players don’t come to a club because the CEO is impressive or they like the GM of football it surely is because they want to be coached).

So if Madge is gone then who?

1) Flanagan and his son? A more modern coach who can possibly attract players and improve the media perception (for a time) but who he questionable morals?

2) ciraldo? A rookie coach who will be thrown to the wolves after the first month if we aren’t winning?

3) **Green? A failed coach who only really succeeded with a future immortal in the halves?**

If the Qld expansion gets delayed (unlikely) then maybe Bennet is available for a few years but other than that the cupboard is pretty bare.

Everyone is quick to write off Green as a dud, and back Madge as a good coach, I don't get it, Madge won a comp in 2014 is a fact, Green won one in 2015 also a fact, both were sacked soon after doing so.
Both had great players at their disposal, but Green got the Cowboys to the grand final in 2017 without Matt Scott gone after round 4 and JT gone after origin, everyone wrote them off after that.
Whilst I don't want Green as coach, I see him as equal or better than Madge on what he has done.

They're on the same level to me. Both lucked out with a prem in the NRL with a team built by someone before them (Madge specifically), yet for some reason people in this forum act like Green is a lesser coach.

 

[TheDaBoss]

I do thank maguire for setting us on a platform now

So a new coach has something to work with...for once we r not going to be left in shambles with deadwood

 

[aturkey]

The Harry Grant article praising Madge is a real insight into the quality of Madge. I have watched Madge run Kiwi training sessions in NZ and anyone who thinks he has no idea about defensive structures is on the glass bbq. He just unfortunately has a team of youngsters and reserve graders. But lets sack him get in Flanagan, Toovey write off another 2-3 years and start again, the very definition of insanity.

Why does bringing in a new coach automatically mean that the next 2-3 years are a write off? We aren't making the finals next year anyway. Bringing in a new coach doesn't mean a rebuild. Why is this so hard to understand.

 

[Terry T.Nuts]

Haven't the last few ten years shown you anything.

 

[tigerfan59]

Daily Telegraph reporting that Moses Mbye was hung out to dry by the Tigers and was left behind as excess baggage by Cleary and that Michael Chee Kam has been really poorly treated by the Tigers and Harry Grant had nothing but praise for the Tigers and Madge.Wish we still had you Harry