Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[cochise]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

I posted this earlier, all season I have thought to myself that I wanted to be confident of success if we made a coaching change because hope wasn't enough for me. After the season ended I am at the point that I think confidence is impossible so I will take hope.

My preference now would be to go with Ciraldo with really strong support around him, not because I will confident of success but just because it will give me hope for success and with Madge in charge I have none.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Plisskin]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

That is not how risk assessment works.

 

[Tiger5150]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

That is not how risk assessment works.

Mate, Im not going to engage with you but I do risk assessment every day for a living. 100% risk assessment in based on known risks, not imagined risks.

 

[Plisskin]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

I posted this earlier, all season I have thought to myself that I wanted to be confident of success if we made a coaching change because hope wasn't enough for me. After the season ended I am at the point that I think confidence is impossible so I will take hope.

My preference now would be to go with Ciraldo with really strong support around him, not because I will confident of success but just because it will give me hope for success and with Madge in charge I have none.

I hope that makes sense.

I understand your thinking but if a guy who has won premierships, both at home and abroad, could not get this mob firing, what hope has a rookie coach got?
I’ve seen it argued Ciraldo will bring youth with him. Our problem of not having experienced, competent mentors to fast track them to becoming consistent first graders persists…as does our inability to attract any. Ciraldo won’t bring these guys in.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

I called for Ciraldo a while back.
People focus on how he has done defensively at the Panthers but he also had a great record coaching the lower grades there and is still involved in pathways. In no ways does it guarantee success but if we are going to be a young squad we need someone who knows youth, has a great support network around him and has the respect within the development scene - which he has. With Sheens back who likes dynamic play it would take a load off Ciraldo early on and it is a very fresh approach for us to build from.

Madge lost the squad a very long time ago, he hasn’t been able to motivate them. When things go wrong he doesn’t adapt and his assistant mates have been a major let down. I actually really like Madge but this year we had a better squad than last years and went worse. We didn’t improve in any area. Yes we had a few kids step up but they need help. For whatever reason we have zero help coming next year for them. Be it Madge or someone else.

The way I look at this is we have had 3 years in 1 direction. We have no choice we need a new approach, we need an identity (junior pathway club) & as such we need fresh faces to lead our team on that pathway. We have no bad contracts really anymore - if we wanted to move Brooks / Nofa they could be moved unlike what we have had in the past. The new direction has an abundance of cash, roster spots to drive a new approach for us.

No matter what we do we are min 2-3 years away from being somewhat competitive. Next year is a write off which is a great time to bring a new leadership direction as their will be zero expectations on them.

 

[cochise]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

I posted this earlier, all season I have thought to myself that I wanted to be confident of success if we made a coaching change because hope wasn't enough for me. After the season ended I am at the point that I think confidence is impossible so I will take hope.

My preference now would be to go with Ciraldo with really strong support around him, not because I will confident of success but just because it will give me hope for success and with Madge in charge I have none.

I hope that makes sense.

I understand your thinking but if a guy who has won premierships, both at home and abroad, could not get this mob firing, what hope has a rookie coach got?
I’ve seen it argued Ciraldo will bring youth with him. Our problem of not having experienced, competent mentors to fast track them to becoming consistent first graders persists…as does our inability to attract any. Ciraldo won’t bring these guys in.

I would agree if Madge had shown anything in the last 6 years worth persisting with, our defence is getting worse and I have lost the belief that Madge is the person to fix it and he won't surround himself with people strong enough to help. He has shown poor leadership in not surrounding himself with the best support. Lastly when you are at the point of publicly shifting the blame and passing that onto the people you are supposed to be leading then it is a very hard road back.

 

[weststigers]

Ciraldo after taking the Tigers job and getting sacked after 2 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv0hsjaqDYo

 

[Plisskin]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

That is not how risk assessment works.

Mate, Im not going to engage with you but I do risk assessment every day for a living. 100% risk assessment in based on known risks, not imagined risks.

That is not true.
Known Unknowns, Unknown Knowns and Unknown Unknowns are taken into account.

 

[wonka]

Ciraldo gets on well with the young guys, since we have a very young team would be a good fit.
He may be inexperienced but will Have Sheens to help him out.

 

[tony soprano]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

Flanagan.

Sheens

 

[gallagher]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

Flanagan.

Sheens

Your probably right there

 

[frullens]

Ciraldo gets on well with the young guys, since we have a very young team would be a good fit.
He may be inexperienced but will Have Sheens to help him out.

If prefer to keep madge with a younger assistants who can relate to our young crew (who are also the ones who are supporting madge)

But if we are to consider cilraldo, the plus is he has been there for the change to the ring crew at panthers.

People forget that in 2019 panthers (2 years ago) panthers introduced a lot of younger players and finished 10th - even getting spanked by west's Tigers.

Start of the next year (2020) people were tipping them for the spoon and were questioning cleary as a coach . They end up going on huge winning steak and pay in gf

So he had seen how a good young team can go from getting lapped to lapping others. Which hopefully we are in the same position to see the same change of fortunes

 

[Plisskin]

It has been said here that Ciraldo has overseen the best defensive team in the NRL but nobody knows how he would go with inferior players. As an example, look at the Penrith Parramatta final and you wouldn't see better defence than either side put up. Now, look at the assistants at those clubs and Ciraldo did really well but Parra had David Kidwell, who was a past defence coach at the Tigers and he did equally well in that game.
BUT Kidwell was a disaster as defence coach at the Wests Tigers. My point is that any reasonable coach can do well if he has a quality roster and it is the roster that needs improving under any future or present coach before we will have any success.

Yeah very good point.
Signing Ciraldo would be an enormous risk.

Every option is a large risk.

True but the green coaches are an unacceptable risk

Believe me I have thought that for a long time.

Taking on a Ciraldo or ESL coach is a risk because their experience in NRL as a head coach, with this squad is completely unknown.

Retaining Madge is a huge risk because his experience as a head coach of the Wests Tigers, with this squad is completely known.

One risk is unknown, the other is known. Past performance is the best indicator of future performances. Which do you hitch your wagon to?

That is not how risk assessment works.

Mate, Im not going to engage with you but I do risk assessment every day for a living. 100% risk assessment in based on known risks, not imagined risks.

That is not true.
Known Unknowns, Unknown Knowns and Unknown Unknowns are taken into account.

You do you...Ill stick to my University training that my clients pay good money for whilst you roll out the Rumsfeld quotes.

I have 2 degrees and both involved risk management. Don’t try and bluff me.
If your risk management only extends to what you already know, then god help those clients.
When it comes to a rookie coach, we know (or are aware) that there are several unknown factors surrounding his appointment as he has not done it before. These factors have to be weighted against the factors we already know about Madge as a coach of this playing group.

 

[Plisskin]

Ciraldo gets on well with the young guys, since we have a very young team would be a good fit.
He may be inexperienced but will Have Sheens to help him out.

He gets on well with the young guys at Penrith. That may not translate to our squad, who are an entirely different beast.

 

[gallagher]

Ciraldo gets on well with the young guys, since we have a very young team would be a good fit.
He may be inexperienced but will Have Sheens to help him out.

If prefer to keep madge with a younger assistants who can relate to our young crew (who are also the ones who are supporting madge)

But if we are to consider cilraldo, the plus is he has been there for the change to the ring crew at panthers.

People forget that in 2019 panthers (2 years ago) panthers introduced a lot of younger players and finished 10th - even getting spanked by west's Tigers.

Start of the next year (2020) people were tipping them for the spoon and were questioning cleary as a coach . They end up going on huge winning steak and pay in gf

So he had seen how a good young team can go from getting lapped to lapping others. Which hopefully we are in the same position to see the same change of fortunes

The year before they come 5th though, so they were adding young blokes to a pretty good squad.

 

[Plisskin]

Just on Ciraldo, why are some of you convinced he would leave a club heading towards premiership success to helm a club heading the opposite direction?

 

[cochise]

Just on Ciraldo, why are some of you convinced he would leave a club heading towards premiership success to helm a club heading the opposite direction?

I for one am not assuming anything, I stated my preferred option.

 

[jirskyr]

Ciraldo seems Penrith centric and I see Cleary lasting another season .. another shot then bring in Ciraldo no use bringing someone that’s heart is somewhere else ! Maguire still needs to get punted yet !

Ivan will be there a while. Won’t wanna upset chin jr.

If Cleary misses out again next season with no premiership
thats 3 seasons in the premiership window .. Ciraldo for 2023 one thinks Cleary Jr will be on a million by then and they all love Ciraldo apparently.

I can’t see it working out that way.

That could be the case .. if so Ciraldo must be waiting for a better offer than the Tigers ,considering these opportunities do not come around that often maybe he sees himself as a professional assistant still top $ with out the stress or the ramifications!

He probably is waiting for a better offer, but that doesn’t mean at the Panthers. There are 15 better options than us. He probably only needs to bide his time for another 12 months or so and the right role will come along. Probably won’t be long till the Broncos are looking for a new coach. That’s a much more stable option than the rabble that is our club.

If you turn the Tigers around, however, you become legend.

 

[Plisskin]

Ciraldo seems Penrith centric and I see Cleary lasting another season .. another shot then bring in Ciraldo no use bringing someone that’s heart is somewhere else ! Maguire still needs to get punted yet !

Ivan will be there a while. Won’t wanna upset chin jr.

If Cleary misses out again next season with no premiership
thats 3 seasons in the premiership window .. Ciraldo for 2023 one thinks Cleary Jr will be on a million by then and they all love Ciraldo apparently.

I can’t see it working out that way.

That could be the case .. if so Ciraldo must be waiting for a better offer than the Tigers ,considering these opportunities do not come around that often maybe he sees himself as a professional assistant still top $ with out the stress or the ramifications!

He probably is waiting for a better offer, but that doesn’t mean at the Panthers. There are 15 better options than us. He probably only needs to bide his time for another 12 months or so and the right role will come along. Probably won’t be long till the Broncos are looking for a new coach. That’s a much more stable option than the rabble that is our club.

If you turn the Tigers around, however, you become legend.

I like that argument more for a guy like Bennett than for a rookie.

 

[cochise]

Ciraldo seems Penrith centric and I see Cleary lasting another season .. another shot then bring in Ciraldo no use bringing someone that’s heart is somewhere else ! Maguire still needs to get punted yet !

Ivan will be there a while. Won’t wanna upset chin jr.

If Cleary misses out again next season with no premiership
thats 3 seasons in the premiership window .. Ciraldo for 2023 one thinks Cleary Jr will be on a million by then and they all love Ciraldo apparently.

I can’t see it working out that way.

That could be the case .. if so Ciraldo must be waiting for a better offer than the Tigers ,considering these opportunities do not come around that often maybe he sees himself as a professional assistant still top $ with out the stress or the ramifications!

He probably is waiting for a better offer, but that doesn’t mean at the Panthers. There are 15 better options than us. He probably only needs to bide his time for another 12 months or so and the right role will come along. Probably won’t be long till the Broncos are looking for a new coach. That’s a much more stable option than the rabble that is our club.

If you turn the Tigers around, however, you become legend.

I like that argument more for a guy like Bennett than for a rookie.

I don't think Bennett is the right fit here.