Match Review and Judiciary Thread

[Jolls]

1. This has been a problem for many many years. I started a thread on here pointing this out in the 2022 off season. It’s not new. The club refuses to address it.
2. Our blokes aren’t unfit. Their problem is they can’t tackle at a first grade standard and as such, fail to stop teams getting a roll on. The result is they become more fatigued than their opponents. This is when the poor discipline comes into play.
3. Lack of discipline comes from two areas. The first is fatigue based. They desperately try to keep up with play by slowing it down. The problem is they aren’t any good at this either. The second is we have some hotheads who can’t control themselves.
Our “treatment” by referees and match review committees/judiciaries is largely warranted.

I would add to that list maturity. We have a side that really doesn't understand how to control a game, but more importantly how to wrestle momentum back. I'm not saying age related maturity - I'm speaking purely in a footablling sense (although in our case we certainly have a lot of young ones).

We are in the competion for 60 minutes most games and then drop off the perch because of fatigue and a lesser skill level in some cases. Some of that comes from the fatigue you have outlined above but I think a lot of it comes from our poor control. Api on the field, and the coaching staff off it, have to shoulder some of the blame - but most of this issue sits on the shoulders of Sezer and Sullivan and to a lesser extent Galvin.

When we start to lose momentum we need to wrestle it back. Sometimes a good forward run or a good set can get us going in the right direction, but that is draining. Our halves need to understand how the team is travelling; when to get some air into them and when to put the foot down. If we are gassed and need to get back into the game, for a team at our level, we simply need to kick deep and for the line. Slowing the game down until we can catch out breath. This means our guys get a blower and the opposition's momentum has stalled. Once we have caught our breath and are looking to gain momentum for ourselves we have three options:

1. Kick early. We have the option to kick early in the set (preferably a 40/20). If it doesn't get there we need to ensure we have a great chase (hence the need for air back in the lungs before hand). Kicking to the seagulls is always an effective way to get momentum on our side. We consistently kick too deep and into the hands of one of the back three; handing momentum back to the opposition.
2. Play fast. We can also play fast down the middle corridor and kick late and long with a stong chase to pin them in a corner with our defence. This is energy conuming but effective; just watch the Panthers.
3. Go for the big play - this is risky and tends to be the option we take - throwing the ball around with lots of second phase play - just waiting to make an error.

For mine - if we learnt to control momentum with the ball in hand it would go a long way towards overcoming our shortfalls on the other side of the pill. That means less energy expended, which should result in better discipline and less errors.

I know it is really easy to sit back in the chair and say it - but they are being paid big $ to play FG. Time to earn it!

 

[Stevec]

1. This has been a problem for many many years. I started a thread on here pointing this out in the 2022 off season. It’s not new. The club refuses to address it.
2. Our blokes aren’t unfit. Their problem is they can’t tackle at a first grade standard and as such, fail to stop teams getting a roll on. The result is they become more fatigued than their opponents. This is when the poor discipline comes into play.
3. Lack of discipline comes from two areas. The first is fatigue based. They desperately try to keep up with play by slowing it down. The problem is they aren’t any good at this either. The second is we have some hotheads who can’t control themselves.
Our “treatment” by referees and match review committees/judiciaries is largely warranted.

I assume by the term "largely warranted " and not completely warranted is a tiny concession that maybe one or two may have been slightly heavy eg Papalii gets 1 week for a trip and Angus Crighton gets 0 weeks for a trip same weekend .

You also add extra weeks for 2nd 3rd offence etc
Not sure how it works but do you cop more time if the offences are completely different ?
Sezer has only played a handful of games at halfback seems he must have done wrong almost every week
I just feel that these suspensions more than any other year have wrecked our season
Of course as you say Rookie coach, with a poor roster lacking depth , with some really dumb guys out there Naden and Seyfarth come to mind ,Tackling technique all contribute
Two things I've noticed fitness wise is our line speed -we are back 10m at play the ball and don't advance and the last 20 mins we can't keep up
Its really depressing to be coming off back to back spoons and feeling a 3rd spoon is almost certain less than halfway through the year

 

[Tucker]

I haven’t seen the Angus Crichton trip.
Papali’i was certainly deserving of a week for his.

 

[Winston Churchill]

Great thread Tucker.

 

[Stevec]

I haven’t seen the Angus Crichton trip.
Papali’i was certainly deserving of a week for his.

Very much the same stuck his leg out tripped DWS only difference was Dws got injured from it was clutching his ankle etc
With my foxtel IQ box I have on demand every game last 2 years and 18 minute mini version of each game .
I guess what got me worked up a bit was going back and rewatched the only game this year where we flogged the other team the Sharks no less and the star of the show that day was clearly Aiden Sezer with an immaculate kicking game but didn't replicate it much after that

 

[Tucker]

Round 13 results: We are still leading in most areas....

 

[hank37w]

We just had the bye allowing the competition to narrow the gap but I am sure that after round 14 we will establish a dominant lead that will be the envy of our competitors.

We just need to work on our send offs which to date have been our only weakness.

 

[Stevec]

Round 13 results: We are still leading in most areas....

View attachment 12650

View attachment 12651

That's 13 players same as an entire run on side incl all 4 members of our spine
Clubs with no more than 1 player gone for 1 week
Bulldogs ,Titans ,Cowboys , Raiders ,Storm ,Dragons , Panthers ,Broncos ,
Amazing Dogs with Mahoney a clean sheet and Val Holmes ? no comment
Only the Roosters with well known bad boys JWH and Victor the inflictor come 2nd but they have only 2 sin bins to our 8 !
Therein lies our season .You think the Judiciary got it spot on whereas I feel they have been slightly harsh .
I do agree our discipline has been very poor !

 

[Tucker]

We just had the bye allowing the competition to narrow the gap but I am sure that after round 14 we will establish a dominant lead that will be the envy of our competitors.

We just need to work on our send offs which to date have been our only weakness.

I’ll back us in

 

[gregjm87]

That's 13 players same as an entire run on side incl all 4 members of our spine
Clubs with no more than 1 player gone for 1 week
Bulldogs ,Titans ,Cowboys , Raiders ,Storm ,Dragons , Panthers ,Broncos ,
Amazing Dogs with Mahoney a clean sheet and Val Holmes ? no comment
Only the Roosters with well known bad boys JWH and Victor the inflictor come 2nd but they have only 2 sin bins to our 8 !
Therein lies our season .You think the Judiciary got it spot on whereas I feel they have been slightly harsh .
I do agree our discipline has been very poor !

Steve in what way do you believe the judiciary has been harsh on our players, are you able to provide specific examples?
I believe there has been at maybe 2 or 3 incidents with players from other clubs where you could argue they weren't harsh enough, but getting another decision (arguably) wrong isn't grounds for they should have been more lenient with us. I believe for the most part they are pretty consistent and cannot think of any examples where we have been clearly hard done by.

 

[Stevec]

Steve in what way do you believe the judiciary has been harsh on our players, are you able to provide specific examples?
I believe there has been at maybe 2 or 3 incidents with players from other clubs where you could argue they weren't harsh enough, but getting another decision (arguably) wrong isn't grounds for they should have been more lenient with us. I believe for the most part they are pretty consistent and cannot think of any examples where we have been clearly hard done by.

An obvious one 2 trips on same weekend Ipaps and Angus Crighton our guy 1 match and the Rooster SOO rep 0 matches .I think Angus trip worse both listed 1st offence
Also think Val Holmes also a SOO rep very lucky the tackle finished Papalii season
Sezer 4 matches must have been the worst and most damaging hip drop of the year ?
Cant remember who was injured or if they missed any games
Did you notice the term I used "slightly harsh "
Right or wrong this combined with injuries and our 3rd grade cup side collectively has killed our season .
The evidence for this is we can't name a competitive 17 for Friday night at Win stadium
I really hope I'm wrong about this and Dragons missing 3 Origin reps lose and we have a miracle win

 

[gregjm87]

An obvious one 2 trips on same weekend Ipaps and Angus Crighton our guy 1 match and the Rooster SOO rep 0 matches .I think Angus trip worse both listed 1st offence
Also think Val Holmes also a SOO rep very lucky the tackle finished Papalii season
Sezer 4 matches must have been the worst and most damaging hip drop of the year ?
Cant remember who was injured or if they missed any games
Did you notice the term I used "slightly harsh "
Right or wrong this combined with injuries and our 3rd grade cup side collectively has killed our season .
The evidence for this is we can't name a competitive 17 for Friday night at Win stadium
I really hope I'm wrong about this and Dragons missing 3 Origin reps lose and we have a miracle win

Just watched the two trips. I think Papali'is is objectively worse. As far as 'more dangerous' is concerned I think all trips are about the same so personally not sure they should actually be graded differently. But... Papali'i literally just swings his leg out in the most blatant tripping action. Crichton extended his leg whilst also reaching with his arms for the runner. I can see how Papali'i is grade 2 and Crichton grade 1. (For anyone searching There are no videos of the Crichton one. Need to go to the full match replay and its in the 60th minute.

Sezer only got 4 matches due to loading as you well know. His grade 3 charge is consistent with everytime (Holmes excepted) a player loses their feet and lands on the legs of the runner.

Holmes I think was very lucky to escape punishment. Having said that I do tend to agree that he probably would not have landed on the legs if Dearden was not involved in the tackle. Ironically I think Dearden is more lucky as I think his tackle would have been a classic hip drop had Holmes not been in the way. But not penalising either of them further is not means for letting our players off easier. Aside from that one tackle I don't see any other charges that have been wildly inconsistent, particularly those against our players.

 

[Telltails]

The question is how they come up with the grading. JWH third offence grade 1 - for what appeared to be contact to the head for a shoulder charge - fine no suspension. Called a careless tackle. What part of leading with your shoulder is careless? Compared to Klemmer grade two also third offence - for a hip drop - three week suspension.
Both players third offence at the mercy of a grading where one is deemed careless and the other dangerous contact.

 

[Stevec]

Just watched the two trips. I think Papali'is is objectively worse. As far as 'more dangerous' is concerned I think all trips are about the same so personally not sure they should actually be graded differently. But... Papali'i literally just swings his leg out in the most blatant tripping action. Crichton extended his leg whilst also reaching with his arms for the runner. I can see how Papali'i is grade 2 and Crichton grade 1. (For anyone searching There are no videos of the Crichton one. Need to go to the full match replay and its in the 60th minute.

Sezer only got 4 matches due to loading as you well know. His grade 3 charge is consistent with everytime (Holmes excepted) a player loses their feet and lands on the legs of the runner.

Holmes I think was very lucky to escape punishment. Having said that I do tend to agree that he probably would not have landed on the legs if Dearden was not involved in the tackle. Ironically I think Dearden is more lucky as I think his tackle would have been a classic hip drop had Holmes not been in the way. But not penalising either of them further is not means for letting our players off easier. Aside from that one tackle I don't see any other charges that have been wildly inconsistent, particularly those against our players.

I think the MRC graded them both "dangerous contact " tripping-1st offence
Then the punishment was different not sure is that determined by the MRC or Judiciary
Not sure DWS who was on the ground clutching his ankle would agree with you .
Annessley actually said Sezers tackle was not a hip drop but was dangerous
and if a tackle is dangerous injuring or potentially injuring it doesn't matter if it was a hip drop or not
Given that neither Holmes or Deardon missing a minute and Papalii missing entire season
Hard to believe that being a SOO rep didn't influence one bit ? Its hard to swallow
By the way one of Klemmers biggest offence 's was when he was binned by Badger who was having a really bad day Klemmer noticed one of ours was tackled without ball and as he was running back onside he said "he was taken out " twice .This was what Braith said after he listened to on field microphones which we don't hear .Not the crime of the century .
This season is in the toilet and its sad after Rd 3 thrashing the Sharks Rd 4 beating Parra
Then it all went to pieces mainly imo due to weak roster with no depth and a rookie coach whos struggling .All this discipline is like the final nail in the coffin
Now its obvious guys like Steph are hoping to land a gig in a top 4 club and nearly as much money . The ones that don't want to jump ship are those that no one wants .
Except Api whos seems loyal .I wonder what Batemans up to ?
3 spoons in a row is very bad 4spoons in a row might be fatal

 

[gregjm87]

I think the MRC graded them both "dangerous contact " tripping-1st offence
Then the punishment was different not sure is that determined by the MRC or Judiciary
Not sure DWS who was on the ground clutching his ankle would agree with you .
Annessley actually said Sezers tackle was not a hip drop but was dangerous
and if a tackle is dangerous injuring or potentially injuring it doesn't matter if it was a hip drop or not
Given that neither Holmes or Deardon missing a minute and Papalii missing entire season
Hard to believe that being a SOO rep didn't influence one bit ? Its hard to swallow
By the way one of Klemmers biggest offence 's was when he was binned by Badger who was having a really bad day Klemmer noticed one of ours was tackled without ball and as he was running back onside he said "he was taken out " twice .This was what Braith said after he listened to on field microphones which we don't hear .Not the crime of the century .
This season is in the toilet and its sad after Rd 3 thrashing the Sharks Rd 4 beating Parra
Then it all went to pieces mainly imo due to weak roster with no depth and a rookie coach whos struggling .All this discipline is like the final nail in the coffin
Now its obvious guys like Steph are hoping to land a gig in a top 4 club and nearly as much money . The ones that don't want to jump ship are those that no one wants .
Except Api whos seems loyal .I wonder what Batemans up to ?
3 spoons in a row is very bad 4spoons in a row might be fatal

The two trips were Definitely graded differently (1 v 2) and as I explained I can see why.

Holmes/Dearden both lucky not to cop worse punishment. With regard to Holmes it is not the first time the actions of another defender contributing to the outcome has reduced the grading. We see it often in lifting tackles. Sure I think he got off lightly but that doesn't make Tigers unfairly targeted. We aren't the only side that have received hip drop suspensions whilst Holmes got a minimal charge

Klemmer did not say much to cop his dissent charge. But he did say it straight after the side was warned to keep their mouths shut. That charge is entirely on him. He needs to be smarter.

You are absolutely right that these discipline issues exposes our poor squad depth. But that is on the club having such poor depth. Not a result of our club being harshly judged at the Judiciary.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

What does poor depth squad have to do with discipline?

 

[Stevec]

Does Joseph Suallii with his 4 matches get added to the Roosters 11 matches taking them to 15 and putting us back in 2nd place.Even if so we'll grab top spot back in a week or two

 

[Tucker]

Does Joseph Suallii with his 4 matches get added to the Roosters 11 matches taking them to 15 and putting us back in 2nd place.Even if so we'll grab top spot back in a week or two

Yes

 

[InBulaWeTrust]

I don’t care where the blokes eyes were “looking”, if lomax played for the tigers he would have had a red and been gone for 4 weeks

 

[Tucker]

I don’t care where the blokes eyes were “looking”, if lomax played for the tigers he would have had a red and been gone for 4 weeks

No he wouldnt have. It wasnt a tackle. He is one of the best in the comp aerially and was 100% trying to catch that ball and score. Sometimes shit happens in an ultra competitive contact sport.