Mediocrity - Accepting It/Not Accepting It

[cqtiger]

We are what we are.
Since the NRL came about there have always been the “strong” clubs - clubs that have regular finals appearances with the odd year or two in the doldrums.
Then there are the “weak” clubs - clubs that are regularly in the doldrums with the odd year or two in the finals.

Guess which we are.

I agree with GNR though, I keep following the Tigers with the hope that each year we might make the finals. Honestly, I’ve never thought at the start of each year that we could win the comp, only that we might make the top eight.

I am rusted on.

 

[jirskyr]

As one of the great minds in recent history stated:

"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."

Albert Einstein

Yeah but your opinion carries no weight. Compare this to politics, where you at least get a non-financial vote and everyone gets a small say.

Complainers on the forum - go for your lives, we all do it in one way or another, then get called up on it by disagree-ers. This place is 99% no-impact debate, as GNR said it's a coping mechanism for following sport, esp if your family and friends are not league followers. This is not the Roman Senate!

The only way for supporters to truly influence is to vote with their wallets, en masse. But that's a very fuzzy signal for club management - exactly why are memberships and tickets declining? Team doesn't win enough? Consistently bad weather? Disenchantment with the product? Some of the most successful teams have horrid crowds and memberships, so there's not a 1:1 correlation between success and support.

Ultimately all sport is entertainment with no guarantee of quality or outcome. You pay to watch footy, to get a seat and be assured the match will run 80 minutes. You pay for some drama, some excitement. The quality or outcome is independent of the individual supporter dollar. Unlike visual media like TV or film, sports teams actively must defeat each other - it is explicit in the design. Therefore there will always be winners and losers; it is impossible for everyone to have a fair go or even chance every single time.

Also quite unlike other entertainment, sport is mostly tribal. Most people don't enjoy sport as much if they are indifferent to the outcome. Even when your team / player isn't on, most sports fans still have a leaning towards one side or another. You are paying your money because you have invested in the club tribe, probably since birth. You are literally indoctrinated. You keep doing it because it's a very powerful social function that you inherited from your ancestors; being in a tribe is an ancient life-preserving strategy.

From an abstract, clinical POV, sports viewership has no tangible outcome - you can't hold a premiership, you can't sell a "victory", you can't eat "on-field success". It simply exists to satisfy some biological urges - the urge to compete, the urge for a physical contest, the urge to alleviate boredom, the urge to be part of a tribe. You might be unhappy, but you don't die or starve without sport.

In fact there are very many people who have no idea why you care so much about sport. Those people are of course idiots, because 99.99% of people care about something intangible, whether it be fashion, art, literature, video games, religion etc.

But GNR is totally right - "mediocrity" is a subjective term. Supporters sit right across the spectrum and have different feelings about their team and what they can or cannot accept. Personally, I accepted a long time ago that I would support Balmain and then Wests until my last breath. I was a teenager during the lean 90s and if I was ever going to give up, that was the time it would have happened. Nothing in the last 20 years of Wests Tigers is remotely as bad as circa 1994. I still remember, clear as day, entire seasons where I knew Tigers would struggle to beat anyone, even Magpies or Gold Coast. I remember how little anyone cared about Balmain during the Super League War. Compared to then, Wests Tigers are a much much better weekly prospect - hell people get upset when we fail to beat the reigning premiers!!!

Right now, my wife doesn't care and my kids are little, but many of my family and friends follow Tigers, so it still has real shared satisfaction for us. The tribal element is strong. The product IMO is good - I've watched a fair amount of "classic" matches and if you reckon it was "better back in the day", then frankly I think you are operating almost entirely on nostalgia. The physical capacity and skill of modern players is unparalleled in history, as is the experience for at-game and remote supporters, plus the access to the game and game-related media.

I know Tigers are less likely to win than other clubs, and in some ways it makes September a little easier to watch. It also makes the 44% wins satisfying in a way that Storm fans can't understand.

 

[gallagher]

As one of the great minds in recent history stated:

"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly."

Albert Einstein

Yeah but your opinion carries no weight. Compare this to politics, where you at least get a non-financial vote and everyone gets a small say.

Complainers on the forum - go for your lives, we all do it in one way or another, then get called up on it by disagree-ers. This place is 99% no-impact debate, as GNR said it's a coping mechanism for following sport, esp if your family and friends are not league followers. This is not the Roman Senate!

The only way for supporters to truly influence is to vote with their wallets, en masse. But that's a very fuzzy signal for club management - exactly why are memberships and tickets declining? Team doesn't win enough? Consistently bad weather? Disenchantment with the product? Some of the most successful teams have horrid crowds and memberships, so there's not a 1:1 correlation between success and support.

Ultimately all sport is entertainment with no guarantee of quality or outcome. You pay to watch footy, to get a seat and be assured the match will run 80 minutes. You pay for some drama, some excitement. The quality or outcome is independent of the individual supporter dollar. Unlike visual media like TV or film, sports teams actively must defeat each other - it is explicit in the design. Therefore there will always be winners and losers; it is impossible for everyone to have a fair go or even chance every single time.

Also quite unlike other entertainment, sport is mostly tribal. Most people don't enjoy sport as much if they are indifferent to the outcome. Even when your team / player isn't on, most sports fans still have a leaning towards one side or another. You are paying your money because you have invested in the club tribe, probably since birth. You are literally indoctrinated. You keep doing it because it's a very powerful social function that you inherited from your ancestors; being in a tribe is an ancient life-preserving strategy.

From an abstract, clinical POV, sports viewership has no tangible outcome - you can't hold a premiership, you can't sell a "victory", you can't eat "on-field success". It simply exists to satisfy some biological urges - the urge to compete, the urge for a physical contest, the urge to alleviate boredom, the urge to be part of a tribe. You might be unhappy, but you don't die or starve without sport.

In fact there are very many people who have no idea why you care so much about sport. Those people are of course idiots, because 99.99% of people care about something intangible, whether it be fashion, art, literature, video games, religion etc.

But GNR is totally right - "mediocrity" is a subjective term. Supporters sit right across the spectrum and have different feelings about their team and what they can or cannot accept. Personally, I accepted a long time ago that I would support Balmain and then Wests until my last breath. I was a teenager during the lean 90s and if I was ever going to give up, that was the time it would have happened. Nothing in the last 20 years of Wests Tigers is remotely as bad as circa 1994. I still remember, clear as day, entire seasons where I knew Tigers would struggle to beat anyone, even Magpies or Gold Coast. I remember how little anyone cared about Balmain during the Super League War. Compared to then, Wests Tigers are a much much better weekly prospect - hell people get upset when we fail to beat the reigning premiers!!!

Right now, my wife doesn't care and my kids are little, but many of my family and friends follow Tigers, so it still has real shared satisfaction for us. The tribal element is strong. The product IMO is good - I've watched a fair amount of "classic" matches and if you reckon it was "better back in the day", then frankly I think you are operating almost entirely on nostalgia. The physical capacity and skill of modern players is unparalleled in history, as is the experience for at-game and remote supporters, plus the access to the game and game-related media.

I know Tigers are less likely to win than other clubs, and in some ways it makes September a little easier to watch. It also makes the 44% wins satisfying in a way that Storm fans can't understand.

Could you expand on that?

 

[Madge]

@gallagher 😂😂

 

[Telltails]

@gallagher - thats not uniqiue to us gallagher thats human nature. There must be something about this club that ensures its healthy fan base cause clearly its not about being "the haves" and winning - and we are all still here.
Its not about accepting mediocrity its about being fundamentally attached to this club and we all having our individual reasons why.
This is also why Im dead agianst this desire by some to cut ties with out traditional grounds. We support a battlers club - you have to be made of certain stuff to endure the tough times. Maybe thats just who we are.
The Storm and Roosters forums are bog boring cause all they have to talk about is who their next buy or superstar is. Winning constantly doesnt inspire passion it attracts those who like winning.

 

[Masterton]

many of my family and friends follow Tigers, so it still has real shared satisfaction for us. The tribal element is strong.

The luckiest thing that ever happened to me as a supporter was when Wests merged and I had HEAP of Balmain mates. Even when we're losing, at least I'm able to share how we were terrible, and which parts of the game were actually OK.

 

[cochise]

missing the 8, AGAIN, is acceptable does my head in.

There is a difference between accepting mediocrity and being a realist, realistically with our squad we should be closer to the bottom of the table than we are. We need to overhaul our squad massively, though we are hamstrung by terrible contracts. We need Reynolds off our books along with a few others, we are making those decisions and attempting to move those players. Being realistic about our position is not being accepting of it and being realistic is more likely to achieve successfully change than believing that people being realistic are accepting mediocrity, which is in my opinion just an argument that people use on here when they can't get other people to agree with their points of view!

 

[OzLuke]

not too long ago...well almost a decade....we had a team so good that I was more worried about losing, than enjoying our team winning. It was a great few years where we played strong defense and had great attack.
We aren't too far off having a team that starts competing in the finals and Madge is the guy. I remember how the crowds were, and how much bloody fun it was.
Losses and mediocrity suck, and it's a trap that players and fans fall into, but management build a team that starts improving and winning slightly more than we lose, we will go in leaps and bounds.

 

[gallagher]

@gallagher - thats not uniqiue to us gallagher thats human nature. There must be something about this club that ensures its healthy fan base cause clearly its not about being "the haves" and winning - and we are all still here.
Its not about accepting mediocrity its about being fundamentally attached to this club and we all having our individual reasons why.
This is also why Im dead agianst this desire by some to cut ties with out traditional grounds. We support a battlers club - you have to be made of certain stuff to endure the tough times. Maybe thats just who we are.
The Storm and Roosters forums are bog boring cause all they have to talk about is who their next buy or superstar is. Winning constantly doesnt inspire passion it attracts those who like winning.

I agree with a lot of that but the problem is that if any clubs get relocated or go broke it will be a battlers club.

 

[BZN]

In the short time I have been a Wests Tigers Forumer @GNR4LIFE, I have read a lot of very caring and passionate posts from many dedicated and loyal fans. But what you have bought out from Our Fans in your new post "mediocrity-accepting it/not accepting it" is nothing but amazing @GNR4LIFE .
steve-o, NT-Tiger, 2005magic, StarswithStripes, Masterton, jirskyr, Telltails,
and Cochise all poured their heart out for Our Club, along with honourable mentions to The_Patriot, mike, cktiger and Tiger_Steve.
A separate award of some sort must go to hobbo1, TheDaBoss, Tiger_bond, Snake, gallagher and Madge.
I'm voting for every one of you for "Wests Tigers Forumer Of The Year/ Hall Of Fame".
I'm sure all these passionate Fans above are just the tip of the iceberg.
I believe People Power :fist: such as we have here already, that you guys have been only too willing to show can let the ones who run the show, We The Fans Are No Longer Willing To Stand For Mediocrity.
My thanks to You GNR4LIFE for your Very Powerful post :v:

 

[Spud_Murphy]

In the short time I have been a Wests Tigers Forumer @GNR4LIFE, I have read a lot of very caring and passionate posts from many dedicated and loyal fans. But what you have bought out from Our Fans in your new post "mediocrity-accepting it/not accepting it" is nothing but amazing @GNR4LIFE .
steve-o, NT-Tiger, 2005magic, StarswithStripes, Masterton, jirskyr, Telltails,
and Cochise all poured their heart out for Our Club, along with honourable mentions to The_Patriot, mike, cktiger and Tiger_Steve.
A separate award of some sort must go to hobbo1, TheDaBoss, Tiger_bond, Snake, gallagher and Madge.
I'm voting for every one of you for "Wests Tigers Forumer Of The Year/ Hall Of Fame".
I'm sure all these passionate Fans above are just the tip of the iceberg.
I believe People Power :fist: such as we have here already, that you guys have been only too willing to show can let the ones who run the show, We The Fans Are No Longer Willing To Stand For Mediocrity.
My thanks to You GNR4LIFE for your Very Powerful post :v:

Lol, no need to go overboard mate, it’s nothing new. We’ve had conversations around this subject a thousand times over.

 

[BearComplex]

GNR I think you have hit the nail on the head as to why neither of my children are involved in or watch NRL. Unfortunately for them, their Dad is a Wests Tigers supporter.
Both started off watching games with me and my son once travelled with me from the NT to Townsville to watch a live game. That interest gradually waned to my son coming in occasionally to check progress while my daughter and I watched a game. Then my son stopped showing any interest at all and my daughter would come in to check progress. She still comes in now and then but usually just asks who's winning when I come out for a break at 1/2 time.
For me, it isn't hard to see how a team and the NRL in general can slide into oblivion with its fan base over time. I've had a weekly demonstration. To my kids, I probably have a big L on my forehead everytime I watch a game.
To me the NRL current management has a lot to answer for with what I believe to be misguided direction.
Maybe what we need to admit is not so much that we accept mediocrity, but we're just dinosaurs in denial.
Go Wests Tigers!

Good post NTT.

 

[jirskyr]

Could you expand on that?

GNR asked a deep and complicated question, you don't have to be a wise ass. Or shall I chase you about the place critiquing your style rather than your content.

 

[TieDye]

@Spud_Murphy it’s a different era mate. Best start believing I reckon Spud...

 

[gallagher]

missing the 8, AGAIN, is acceptable does my head in.

There is a difference between accepting mediocrity and being a realist, realistically with our squad we should be closer to the bottom of the table than we are. We need to overhaul our squad massively, though we are hamstrung by terrible contracts. We need Reynolds off our books along with a few others, we are making those decisions and attempting to move those players. Being realistic about our position is not being accepting of it and being realistic is more likely to achieve successfully change than believing that people being realistic are accepting mediocrity, which is in my opinion just an argument that people use on here when they can't get other people to agree with their points of view!

Im talking about the mediocrcy of the club. So many fans have no expectations of the club. We have a CEO that cheated the cap and a lot think he's doing a great job. It's accepting crap.

 

[BZN]

G'day @GNR4LIFE: from the way Our Team played tonight, I reckon all the posts under your heading "mediocrity-accepting It/Not Accepting It" must have been read by all the players at 1/2 time in tonight's match. What a pity they weren't made to read the posts before the match, as I'm sure the score would have been a win to Us :relaxed:

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Accepting mediocrity to me is saying: "at least we've won a comp" when someone brings up the fact we have the worst record of any team in the league when it comes to making the top 8 of a 16 team competition.

There aren't many sporting teams in the world who have failed miserably so consistently, let's be honest. 3 finals in 20 years is ridiculous.

Kind of hoping they just put us all out of our misery and move to Perth so I can stop caring, because nothing much is going to change anytime soon.

 

[Tbone]

Just caught the press conference. Maguire not impressed. Doesn’t sound like he’s happy with mediocrity either.

None of his usual “I’ve got a lot of faith in this group”. Bet he wishes he had a few mill to spend right now.

 

[BZN]

My apologies if I have annoyed you @Spud_Murphy: re your "Lol, no need to go overboard mate, it's nothing new. We've had conversations around this subject a thousand times over". :relaxed:
As this current conversation is number 1001, we may have to do it again being 1002 before we start to have any influence on the Big Wigs that run Our show.
I've said my bit in support of @GNR4LIFE and the others who said their bit, but my bit is now going to have a rest from this subject, cheers mate :relaxed:

 

[tig_prmz]

Just caught the press conference. Maguire not impressed. Doesn’t sound like he’s happy with mediocrity either.

None of his usual “I’ve got a lot of faith in this group”. Bet he wishes he had a few mill to spend right now.

"Anyone you wanna wrap out of the game"
"Na"
"Any positives?"
"Na"
LOL

Great thread GNR. I dont think the people talking about our roster/ladder position for this year get the point of this thread.

Do I accept mediocrity? We've gone past mediocre now. But as someone said, all we can do is cheer and then come here and vent.

I don't blame the players we have currently. I honestly believe they're trying their best.

I've never been fortunate enough to see the tigers in a semi-final yet and just hope I can see it in the next few years if we stay in the comp.

I also take heart in the fact that we haven't won the spoon. Once that happens, lots of talks of us relocating will happen.

Now, I'm just over all the criticising of players/teams/coaches. There is just no point anymore.