Michael Maguire leaves club

[twentyforty]

Correct. Every single player has been signed or re signed under this coach. And he did that with no more than 75% of a salary cap because of a $639k club fine coming out in his first year, and spending the next few paying for players that he did not sign.

He did the best with what he had.

I think from memory, for the first 6 months of his tenure he didn't even have a CEO? And up until 6 months ago he was trying to play the role of football manager as well because we were one of the few clubs that didn't have one. Our finances were in complete ruins because of the 10 years prior.

As for Brooks, I'm not sure he is worse, because he hasn't been that good anyway. And on top of that, he has never had a decent game managing half to work with because the Tigers couldn't afford him.

Context around the coach before you sh** on him. I'd be very interested to know from anyone, who they should have appointed instead? Everyone jumped for joy when he got here and then a select few have been stabbing him in the back ever since.

Good post Swordy. Something that is repeated constantly is that Maguire has the team he wants, because it was he who signed or re-signed them.
I doubt very much, judging by his constant disappointment during games, that this is the case.
The last review identified some deficiencies in recruitment and 6 months later we get an improved performance in that area by signing Api and Papi.
I would love to see what Maguire can do operating on a full cap.

 

[finnzo]

Good post Swordy. Something that is repeated constantly is that Maguire has the team he wants, because it was he who signed or re-signed them.
I doubt very much, judging by his constant disappointment during games, that this is the case.
The last review identified some deficiencies in recruitment and 6 months later we get an improved performance in that area by signing Api and Papi.
I would love to see what Maguire can do operating on a full cap.

I think if the club had appointed a weaker coach when they got Madge we would be absolutely screwed rite now he has done a great job navigating through the last couple of years with all the salary cap dramas and constant scrutiny he has shown unbelievable patience and I think without Hartigan and Lee he probably would have landed a couple more signings over the years that really could have helped us

All I can say is I have full faith in what tim sheens has chosen if he decides Madge is the problem so be it in backing the new coach but if he sticks with Madge I’m backing Madge

Tim sheens is the only 1 with front row seats
I think we are in for a much brighter future

Go the tigers

 

[twentyforty]

I think if the club had appointed a weaker coach when they got Madge we would be absolutely screwed rite now he has done a great job navigating through the last couple of years with all the salary cap dramas and constant scrutiny he has shown unbelievable patience and I think without Hartigan and Lee he probably would have landed a couple more signings over the years that really could have helped us

All I can say is I have full faith in what tim sheens has chosen if he decides Madge is the problem so be it in backing the new coach but if he sticks with Madge I’m backing Madge

Tim sheens is the only 1 with front row seats
I think we are in for a much brighter future

Go the tigers

Agree, the club must have recognised that a tough single minded coach was required to navigate the storms ahead.
The only possible reason I could see for Madge going is if there is some task tension between the two? And I don’t see that. Sheens was involved in the previous review via zoom from UK.

 

[crazycat]

Correct. Every single player has been signed or re signed under this coach. And he did that with no more than 75% of a salary cap because of a $639k club fine coming out in his first year, and spending the next few paying for players that he did not sign.

He did the best with what he had.

I think from memory, for the first 6 months of his tenure he didn't even have a CEO? And up until 6 months ago he was trying to play the role of football manager as well because we were one of the few clubs that didn't have one. Our finances were in complete ruins because of the 10 years prior.

As for Brooks, I'm not sure he is worse, because he hasn't been that good anyway. And on top of that, he has never had a decent game managing half to work with because the Tigers couldn't afford him.

Context around the coach before you sh** on him. I'd be very interested to know from anyone, who they should have appointed instead? Everyone jumped for joy when he got here and then a select few have been stabbing him in the back ever since.

Yes Swordy, I totally hear your first paragraph. I have backed Madge for 3 years while he carried dead weight here. Because as you say he was working with 75% of cap.

Heck I also recognise the BJ Leulia misstep for what it was. Coaches get signings wrong and Madge clearly wanted 2x professional centers to get our back line flowing. Roberts eventually even up'd but hey give him a chance.

Now? We have had 2 poor cap years and 2 full cap years. Players are clearly dipping here. Our pack clearly lacks grit, our defense sucks and we haven't seen that evolution after 4 years.

Who do I think should have come here instead?
Anthony Griffin
-- whatever is going on at the Dragons, their side has done better with probably about the same as we have had. He seems to get down and get the basics right which is what I was hoping Madge would do.
Flanagan
--probably wasn't selectable then. Hate how he is acting now, but the guy has coached a team from bottom to top.
Laurie Daily. May have still been coaching the Blues. The guy is old school, but could get a good game out of Josh Reynolds and other players we had.

I see Griffin and Flanagan doing a better job then Madge. Todd Payten would have done a better job over these 4 years then Madge! Yes there is a problem at the club, we need to solve it. Madge clearly isn't identifying our weaknesses in our game and isn't working towards fixing them.

 

[earl]

He even signed Hastings whilst we had Brooks, AD & Madden without a clear strategy of what position they will play.

You reckon he didn't have a clear strategy ? I think he and the club knew that Brooks wasn't cutting it at 7 and Hastings was worth a shot.

 

[finnzo]

You reckon he didn't have a clear strategy ? I think he and the club knew that Brooks wasn't cutting it at 7 and Hastings was worth a shot.

Nah mate he just signed him for sake of signing him hahaha

 

[Telltails]

639k isn’t 25% of the cap

He also signed AD to 650k which at the time he wasn’t worth that, signed Noffa and Musgrove to 5yr deals and Brooks to $1m last 2yrs contract. Signed Hastings without a clear Hastings/AD/Brooks plan. Signed BJ/JTJ/Gildart. Didn’t release Mbye a season early. The list goes on.

People can use the cap & not his squad as an excuse but his results were more positive than what they are today.

Not saying that should be grounds to be replaced, just calling out that people shouldn’t use it as an argument.

Every single new coach of a team inherits another squad but in 4yrs you just don’t see the decline of both reserves and NRL sides Madge has seen.

I don't think there is a coach at this club who has ever had the squad he wants because the players that are required to reach the standards needed to be successful have not wanted to come to the club. When you are forced to spend the cap under the rules of the system and your junior system is delivering very little the players that you have to take a risk with are players that have been discarded from other squads and or those well past their best. The whole it his squad thing still turns a blind eye to quality of the players who are prepared to play at this club compared to the ones who choose not to.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Wait how many more hours?

Did we add on another 48

 

[Cobarcats]

Missing the point with said cap problems he got better results than when he hasn’t had cap problems he has struggled. To use it & last 2yrs it’s been his squad.

You can use the cap as an excuse but he didn’t use the full cap last year or this year but oversaw every single contract he has on the roster.

It is his squad. He even signed Hastings whilst we had Brooks, AD & Madden without a clear strategy of what position they will play.

Are you saying bringing in a bargain like JH to give the team flexibility in the halves was a bad thing considering all these years of inconsistencies from Brooks which extended well before Madge got here, he couldn't let that fester, a masterstroke imo.
The way I understand it the carry over of available cap can go towards netting another big fish and also help securing our best players. Another masterstroke.
Though cap management is not Madges department, not solely.
I don't know why some people call it his cap, Sheens, the board and the NRL ratifies any contracts.
I would imagine Madge tells his Sheens the type of player he wants and managers, scouts get notified.
I doubt it if Madge has anytime to do any negotiating or get too involved in pathways.
A meeting with the player would be as far as it goes one would imagine.
Since Sheens has got here we netted those 2 good signings for next year.
Injuries are not Madges fault but the review must look at our fitness and performance department.
A and D will have to be reviewed as well so our assistant coaches will come under scrutiny.
You are right though, to put our lack of success solely down to the cap is wrong, it is one of many issues and the buck stops at Madge.
I've never disputed that he is blameless...far from it.
My comments from day dot has been....now that we are seeing some positive changes so give him a go.
At least let him see out his contract.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

He was there at the same time that a movement arose for established NRL talents to commit to Tonga, thus bolstering their squad tremendously. This started with Taumalolo and caught momentum from there. He was there from 2014 and did nothing remarkable beyond previous success, including losing to Samoa twice and PNG in the first couple of years of his tenure, pre this influx of players.

It's not naïve in the slightest, I just believe that the players at his disposal, rather than his tactical coaching nous, played a far more contributory role in their success.

Pretty weird judgement to pass on an alternative and equally-likely perspective.

I’m just reluctant to say things like he was just there ,the players did everything .
It seems like revisionist history to me to suit an anti Wolfe agenda .
The guy presided over a team that went from borderline second tier nation to potentially the best team in the world .
He then went to England and has won the last 3 super league titles .
He also won the Q cup/ or went close before going as well I think ? Correct me if I’m wrong .
That resume of at the very least getting guys to buy in and maximise thier potential , IMO , can’t be ignored.
That’s Voldermorts best quality . Not tactical nouse but getting guys to buy in , and stay bought in. There’s value in not alienating the team .
But if a guy is winning the last 3 comps , granted in an an inferior comp , he has to be half decent .

 

[Swordy]

639k isn’t 25% of the cap

He also signed AD to 650k which at the time he wasn’t worth that, signed Noffa and Musgrove to 5yr deals and Brooks to $1m last 2yrs contract. Signed Hastings without a clear Hastings/AD/Brooks plan. Signed BJ/JTJ/Gildart. Didn’t release Mbye a season early. The list goes on.

People can use the cap & not his squad as an excuse but his results were more positive than what they are today.

Not saying that should be grounds to be replaced, just calling out that people shouldn’t use it as an argument.

Every single new coach of a team inherits another squad but in 4yrs you just don’t see the decline of both reserves and NRL sides Madge has seen.

Sorry, should be clearer in my posts. Of course the club fine isn't 25%. But as I wrote, the club fine AND players such as Matulino, Packer, Reynolds, Mbye ... all big money signings over which he had no control. That's the context. Sorry.

And then operating with what's left, making sure you fill the 30 spots, etc etc.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

639k isn’t 25% of the cap

He also signed AD to 650k which at the time he wasn’t worth that, signed Noffa and Musgrove to 5yr deals and Brooks to $1m last 2yrs contract. Signed Hastings without a clear Hastings/AD/Brooks plan. Signed BJ/JTJ/Gildart. Didn’t release Mbye a season early. The list goes on.

People can use the cap & not his squad as an excuse but his results were more positive than what they are today.

Not saying that should be grounds to be replaced, just calling out that people shouldn’t use it as an argument.

Every single new coach of a team inherits another squad but in 4yrs you just don’t see the decline of both reserves and NRL sides Madge has seen.

It’s a legit reason though . People talk about how Voldemort had us in 9th etc , but the guy presided over the oldest team in the comp at the time.
The team was chock full of mercenaries and resembled what expansion teams of the 90s felt like . A whole bunch of ex internationals who maybe had 1 or 2 good seasons left .
And he wisely bailed before those guys tethering on a cliff , went off the cliff .
For all we know if Cleary had had stayed we would have got the spoon with those squads the last 2 years . And we would have no green shoots , no Hastings , no AD, no Stefano etc.
That team that came 9th , almost all of it bar Momirovski , and brooks are either retired , should retire , or being bog average in Europe .
Credit to Voldemort for milking the cow dry , but like I said Who’s to say Voldemort wouldn’t have put us in the toilet the last few years , instead of treading water .

 

[batboy]

I read that, then think of Sheens. For some reason all I see is "trip to Kiama".

Ahhh... The good old days!!

 

[batboy]

It’s a legit reason though . People talk about how Voldemort had us in 9th etc , but the guy presided over the oldest team in the comp at the time.
The team was chock full of mercenaries and resembled what expansion teams of the 90s felt like . A whole bunch of ex internationals who maybe had 1 or 2 good seasons left .
And he wisely bailed before those guys tethering on a cliff , went off the cliff .
For all we know if Cleary had had stayed we would have got the spoon with those squads the last 2 years . And we would have no green shoots , no Hastings , no AD, no Stefano etc.
That team that came 9th , almost all of it bar Momirovski , and brooks are either retired , should retire , or being bog average in Europe .
Credit to Voldemort for milking the cow dry , but like I said Who’s to say Voldemort wouldn’t have put us in the toilet the last few years , instead of treading water .

#Truth

 

[Camel2281]

Correct. Every single player has been signed or re signed under this coach. And he did that with no more than 75% of a salary cap because of a $639k club fine coming out in his first year, and spending the next few paying for players that he did not sign.

He did the best with what he had.

I think from memory, for the first 6 months of his tenure he didn't even have a CEO? And up until 6 months ago he was trying to play the role of football manager as well because we were one of the few clubs that didn't have one. Our finances were in complete ruins because of the 10 years prior.

As for Brooks, I'm not sure he is worse, because he hasn't been that good anyway. And on top of that, he has never had a decent game managing half to work with because the Tigers couldn't afford him.

Context around the coach before you sh** on him. I'd be very interested to know from anyone, who they should have appointed instead? Everyone jumped for joy when he got here and then a select few have been stabbing him in the back ever since.

To be fair I was still happy to keep Madge at the end of last year but I am just over it. I cannot see light at the end of the tunnel. We are worse this year than last and I didn't think that was possible

 

[batboy]

Thats where you have it wrong Paws...Morris helped bring the juniors through to NRL...He helped establish the pathways and had all those players come through...
Big deal....Madge hasnt had that luxury,our pathways were ignored for many years and now it is a focal point of interest to Madge to get it going again,but that doesnt suit your narrative does it now,,,,

Anyone who can't see that Madge has spent 3 years battling his way through other people mistakes is blind.

 

[batboy]

It all comes down to Ciraldo. If he is willing to come in 2023, Madge is a dead duck. It would appear he has been approached and is giving it serious consideration.

I am sure they would go down the caretaker road for the rest of the season if Ciraldo did commit for 23. Personally I think he knock us back and stick with Riff till a big team job arrives

I can't be the only one that thinks Ciraldo could be a massive mistake!!
Yes, He's talked about as the next best thing and all that...

But the media does that, His coaches do that - Everyone does that!!
They did it to Seibold at Souths... Won coach of the year, Got a massive contract - Sacked.
Trent Barrett - Sacked / Quite - TWICE!!
Garth Brennan
Rick Stone
Ivan Henjak
Steven Kearney
Even Kevy Walters was on the Block for the last couple years... And he's Broncos Royalty.

Truth is, No one knows what a coach is going to be like, And more often than not - All these next bests end up in a scrap heap in State Cup or overseas and never get mentioned again.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

You reckon he didn't have a clear strategy ? I think he and the club knew that Brooks wasn't cutting it at 7 and Hastings was worth a shot.

It was evident by naming Brooks at halfback and Hastings at 6 for round 1, it wasn't until all the reports came out his job was really on the line that he made the positional change.

 

[Cobarcats]

Anyone who can't see that Madge has spent 3 years battling his way through other people mistakes is blind.

And the most important piece of the whole puzzle is Sheens.
Sheens is not dumb and knows what Madge has had to deal with.
They have Canberra connections and he knows Madge can coach.
I doubt very much whether another coach will do any better, actually there is a chance it will get worse.
Join the WT coaching merry go round. If we sack Madge we will be media Cannon Folder for another 17 years.

 

[jadtiger]

And the most important piece of the whole puzzle is Sheens.
Sheens is not dumb and knows what Madge has had to deal with.
They have Canberra connections and he knows Madge can coach.
I doubt very much whether another coach will do any better, actually there is a chance it will get worse.
Join the WT coaching merry go round. If we sack Madge we will be media Cannon Folder for another 17 years.

Unfortunately i have to agree with all of that and i doubt if we will see the bottom of our decline for at least another 8-10 years of misery if Madge gets the chop