Moltzen Staying Or Going

[tiger91]

I don't think it's a case of "saying one thing then doing another" at all. I think it's more a case of misinterpretation of what was said between Moltz, Tauber and the club.

I also disagree with those who say we are only fighting for Moltzen now that we are planning of cutting our ties with Lui (I personally think Lui will stay, and wouldn't disagree if it happens).

I feel that while we told Moltz to look elsewhere, it was never permission to sign and was only a warning to Moltzen that he may not be required for 2012 and may be wise to find intrest from another club so he isn't left looking for a club at the end of the year when the clubs have no money to shop with.

In my opinion we havnt done anything unethical and personally, I wouldn't want any player at WT if their heart wasnt in it, regardless how much talent the player has.
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[GNR4LIFE]

Yep.
An each way bet La T.
Its poor form

The players AND the fans, supporters and members have all been led up the garden path.

The club knew Saints would announce his signing before it happened.

To all you people saying theres nothing wrong with this, I hope you personally dont operate this way…say one thing - do another.

why is everybody getting all cut by the fact that tigers didnt open their mouth about this until now.

they have worked this perfectly, but keeping moltz and also by stuffing over the dragons.

ink, surely you cant have an issue with saying one thing and doing another…..as long as its not illegal, its fine. The whole point of any business is to stretch morals as far as possible for personal gain. Not illegal, no worries :smiley:

so you think the Tigers have handled this situation well? why wait until now to dig their heels in, why not get it all sorted 3 months ago? i specifically remember seeing Moltzen being interviewed by Danny Weedler, who asked him if he was filthy about the Tigers letting him go, i remember posting a thread about that question because i thought it was a grubby thing to ask. But Moltzen never said anything about still having a contract with the Tigers for next yr. So if he hadn't been released, why put himself and the fans through the charade that he was leaving?

 

[tiger_jim]

Moltzen was told he could look around thats what he did, he is a young guy and has to set himself up for years to come and thats with saints , so why should he stick with the tigers for less money when he was told to look around. I hope he goes to saints and stars because we gave him the run around. Lui stuffs up we call foul and try to stop him. go to saints Tim and good luck as for the tigers you stuff up so let kid go and get over it

 

[that_guy]

Yep.
An each way bet La T.
Its poor form

The players AND the fans, supporters and members have all been led up the garden path.

The club knew Saints would announce his signing before it happened.

To all you people saying theres nothing wrong with this, I hope you personally dont operate this way…say one thing - do another.

why is everybody getting all cut by the fact that tigers didnt open their mouth about this until now.

they have worked this perfectly, but keeping moltz and also by stuffing over the dragons.

ink, surely you cant have an issue with saying one thing and doing another…..as long as its not illegal, its fine. The whole point of any business is to stretch morals as far as possible for personal gain. Not illegal, no worries :smiley:

so you think the Tigers have handled this situation well? why wait until now to dig their heels in, why not get it all sorted 3 months ago? i specifically remember seeing Moltzen being interviewed by Danny Weedler, who asked him if he was filthy about the Tigers letting him go, i remember posting a thread about that question because i thought it was a grubby thing to ask. But Moltzen never said anything about still having a contract with the Tigers for next yr. So if he hadn't been released, why put himself and the fans through the charade that he was leaving?

any excuse to kick the kid ay?

 

[Yossarian]

Double post which for some reason I can't delete. If a Mod can help that would be great!!

 

[Swordy]

I don't think it's a case of "saying one thing then doing another" at all. I think it's more a case of misinterpretation of what was said between Moltz, Tauber and the club.

I also disagree with those who say we are only fighting for Moltzen now that we are planning of cutting our ties with Lui (I personally think Lui will stay, and wouldn't disagree if it happens).

I feel that while we told Moltz to look elsewhere, it was never permission to sign and was only a warning to Moltzen that he may not be required for 2012 and may be wise to find intrest from another club so he isn't left looking for a club at the end of the year when the clubs have no money to shop with.

In my opinion we havnt done anything unethical and personally, I wouldn't want any player at WT if their heart wasnt in it, regardless how much talent the player has.
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well said. Who says the WT know have tempted or teased or enticed Tim to have a chnage of heart anyway.

My thoughts are that Managers do what they do best and try and negotiate better deals, and then work things to make them happen.

Given tauber's credentials, Im not sure you want to upset him either.

Its all very delicate and in the end we should trust that our management are dealing with it with both the player and club interests at heart.

It is not wise for any club to act unethically , as you would sson see the fan base and sponsors leaving. Why would any management do that?

 

[Yossarian]

either way, its tigers gain….so lets all accept we are keeping him on his original deal.
tigers 1 - dousty 0

For me it has zero to do with Doust. The only relevant factors are:

1\. What does Tim Moltzen want to do?
2\. What does the Wests Tigers want to do?
3\. Do 1 & 2 conform with acceptable practice and are any rules being broken?

 

[sameulcon]

The fact is the Tigers have not ever given Moltz a release… They told him that he could negotiate elsewhere but saying that is totally different to saying, here's a release go play there....

They may not have released him but they made salary cap calculations under the assumption he would not be with us next year.

As I said before both Moltzen and Lui are staying….But someone else will have to go.

Black and White are you saying someone else will have to go the Dragons or another club?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Yep.
An each way bet La T.
Its poor form

The players AND the fans, supporters and members have all been led up the garden path.

The club knew Saints would announce his signing before it happened.

To all you people saying theres nothing wrong with this, I hope you personally dont operate this way…say one thing - do another.

why is everybody getting all cut by the fact that tigers didnt open their mouth about this until now.

they have worked this perfectly, but keeping moltz and also by stuffing over the dragons.

ink, surely you cant have an issue with saying one thing and doing another…..as long as its not illegal, its fine. The whole point of any business is to stretch morals as far as possible for personal gain. Not illegal, no worries :smiley:

so you think the Tigers have handled this situation well? why wait until now to dig their heels in, why not get it all sorted 3 months ago? i specifically remember seeing Moltzen being interviewed by Danny Weedler, who asked him if he was filthy about the Tigers letting him go, i remember posting a thread about that question because i thought it was a grubby thing to ask. But Moltzen never said anything about still having a contract with the Tigers for next yr. So if he hadn't been released, why put himself and the fans through the charade that he was leaving?

any excuse to kick the kid ay?

no idea what thats suppose to mean but anyway….so after putting all those facts to you, you still think the Tigers have handled this situation 'perfectly'?

 

[that_guy]

in the circumstances 100% perfectly. Its confusing with the lui thing but what im saying is that if we could go back…....i would not want it done any differently

 

[innsaneink]

I don't think it's a case of "saying one thing then doing another" at all. I think it's more a case of misinterpretation of what was said between Moltz, Tauber and the club.

I also disagree with those who say we are only fighting for Moltzen now that we are planning of cutting our ties with Lui (I personally think Lui will stay, and wouldn't disagree if it happens).

**I feel that while we told Moltz to look elsewhere, it was never permission to sign and was only a warning to Moltzen that he may not be required for 2012 and may be wise to find intrest from another club so he isn't left looking for a club at the end of the year when the clubs have no money to shop with.**
In my opinion we havnt done anything unethical and personally, I wouldn't want any player at WT if their heart wasnt in it, regardless how much talent the player has.
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LMFAO!

You cant do that

Hey tim, go see if you can find another deal….we may hang onto you but well if someone better comes along well we might just pick them up so yeh, off you go...

If the club said, theres no formal release, make sure you tell your manager and he relays that to any new prospective employer, then well yeh no probs, but it seems that did not occur

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I don't care what loopholes there are… He should still go and the club should not stand in the way. He signed a contract and the Tigers were well aware of it as they were probably the catalyst.

Whatever happened to a man's word being his bond?

 

[sameulcon]

ink, surely you cant have an issue with saying one thing and doing another…..as long as its not illegal, its fine. The whole point of any business is to stretch morals as far as possible for personal gain. Not illegal, no worries :smiley:
so you think the Tigers have handled this situation well? why wait until now to dig their heels in, why not get it all sorted 3 months ago? i specifically remember seeing Moltzen being interviewed by Danny Weedler, who asked him if he was filthy about the Tigers letting him go, i remember posting a thread about that question because i thought it was a grubby thing to ask. But Moltzen never said anything about still having a contract with the Tigers for next yr. So if he hadn't been released, why put himself and the fans through the charade that he was leaving?

any excuse to kick the kid ay?
no idea what thats suppose to mean but anyway….so after putting all those facts to you, you still think the Tigers have handled this situation 'perfectly'?

What do you expect Tim to say to Weidler? Yes I am filthy about the tigers letting me go, yes I have signed at the Dragons but I havnt been granted a release from the Tigers yet. And while Im at it Danny, I want to stay at the Tigers!

 

[tiger91]

I would feel that telling a player that he may not be required for next year so he may want to search for a potential club is ok.

We never said "go sign else where, but we might change our mind". That is unethical. But telling a player "At the moment we are not sure where we can fit you next year with our cap and we may have to offload you, so it might be wise to see if there's any intrest from other clubs. However we may be able to work something out later" is ok I feel.

Your only telling the player the situation and giving him a heads up.

Wouldn't you rather be kept in the know rather than hearing in late October "Sorry mate there's no room here" and shown the door, knowing that every other club has spent all their money and more than likely can not accommodate you.
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[happy_tiger]

I don't care what loopholes there are… He should still go and the club should not stand in the way. He signed a contract and the Tigers were well aware of it as they were probably the catalyst.

Whatever happened to a man's word being his bond?

Bogan I understand what you are saying about a man word being his bond mate
But that is the reason we have contracts that have been signed with t's crossed and i's dotted
For the Saints not to then follow through and get all the paperwork 100% sorted and prepared is really bad business on their behalf
It could of been any club that did this if they knew what we knew
This is good learning experience for all on the forum
Ensure any contract you enter is 100% foolproof and 100% above board

 

[innsaneink]

I would feel that telling a player that he may not be required for next year so he may want to search for a potential club is ok.

We never said "go sign else where, but we might change our mind". That is unethical. But telling a player "At the moment we are not sure where we can fit you next year with our cap and we may have to offload you, so it might be wise to see if there's any intrest from other clubs. However we may be able to work something out later" is ok I feel.

Your only telling the player the situation and giving him a heads up.

Wouldn't you rather be kept in the know rather than hearing in late October "Sorry mate there's no room here" and shown the door, knowing that every other club has spent all their money and more than likely can not accommodate you.
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He had a contract….hes signed until next year, he counts in next years cap.
Silly move

Yes, its nice being courteous, maybe Humpty shouldve shown Doust some courtesy when Doust advised ( before it occured) that saints were going to announce his signing, apprently WTs were advised, said nothing then kicked up a fuss publicly afterwards.

 

[tiger91]

That was poor on my half for using the cap as an exapmle but for whatever reason they gave him permission to have a look. Whether there was also permission to sign, I don't know.

I'm only giving my opinion and appreciate the points you make but am happy to agree to disagree as it seems we are both firmly on opposite sides of the fence.
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[happy_tiger]

I would feel that telling a player that he may not be required for next year so he may want to search for a potential club is ok.

We never said "go sign else where, but we might change our mind". That is unethical. But telling a player "At the moment we are not sure where we can fit you next year with our cap and we may have to offload you, so it might be wise to see if there's any intrest from other clubs. However we may be able to work something out later" is ok I feel.

Your only telling the player the situation and giving him a heads up.

Wouldn't you rather be kept in the know rather than hearing in late October "Sorry mate there's no room here" and shown the door, knowing that every other club has spent all their money and more than likely can not accommodate you.
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He had a contract….hes signed until next year, he counts in next years cap.
Silly move

Yes, its nice being courteous, maybe Humpty shouldve shown Doust some courtesy when Doust advised ( before it occured) that saints were going to announce his signing, apprently WTs were advised, said nothing then kicked up a fuss publicly afterwards.

Ink how do you know for certain that the Saints advised us before hand that they were signing Moltzen
Again we need to let this play out to find out the real facts But if there was no contract signed Moltzen was fair game to any club not just us

 

[innsaneink]

Only what I read in a foxsports article, and we all know what theyre worth, but it is a direct quote:

"…........St George Illawarra CEO Peter Doust issued a further statement on Friday evening, following the Tigers' response.
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"The announcement today by the Dragons of the signing of Tim Moltzen was based on information relayed to us about Tim's status with Wests Tigers in 2012 and after discussion with Tim and his management," Doust said.
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**"Our intention to make this announcement was communicated to Wests Tigers in advance of the announcement** even though it has always been our understanding and the standard practice within the game that the club signing a player makes any such announcement.
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"We do not understand the statement that our announcement is arrogant or disrespectful to the Wests Tigers club.
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"Our objective was to release key information that was already being widely discussed..............."

Humphries also says in the article
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However Wests Tigers CEO Stephen Humphreys said in a statement that the signing was news to the club, also berating the Dragons for their timing and handling of the media release.
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**"The fact that the Dragons made the announcement this afternoon has come as a complete surprise to us,"** Humphreys said on Friday.
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"We are extremely disappointed that they chose this course of action without any co-ordination or agreement with us.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/league/nrl-premiership/st-george-illawarra-sign-wests-tigers-youngster-tim-moltzen-to-three-year-nrl-contract/story-fn2mcuj6-1226090815972

This was all on the Friday of the Parra game
Doust says they told us
Humpty says its a surprise.
Someones lying

 

[smoking_gun]

if wests tigers never sent his management and doust or whoever at the dragons release forms signed by tim and humphreys he was never released, as far as im aware this did not take place