Most skilful player / GOAT debate

[Kelce68]

I have a slight weigh in with the Joey and drugs debate.

Personally, he admitted use of prohibited substances and it's irrelevant whether they hindered or enhanced his performance. I've never seen him play a full game as he was a little bit before my time but surely there must have been a massive cover up to hide his use. I don't know what action can be taken now, but I would have a ** next to his name when greats are mentioned.

It's not out of the realms of possibility to suggest that upwards of half the competition during Joey's era were renown for having a dabble in all sorts of late-night nightclub shenanigans.

Disco-Biscuits-Lockyer at the top of the list...

(with Joey of course).

 

[Kelce68]

Picking an all time team to save my life I have Tommy at half every time, not a cokehead poser.

You couldn't even compare Johns' efforts in Origin with Thurston.

Overrated media golden boy not in the top 20 of all time half backs.

😂

There's hyperbole..... and then there's this, Todd.

Wild.

 

[tig_prmz]

There’d be a lot of ** in the phone book

Probably but correct me if I am wrong but not many have openly admitted to it.

 

[Tiger Karen]

Thurston was a superior game manager and could win clutch games.

Benji was faster and more agile, better hands and feet. Superb goal kicker.

Lindner was just everywhere, powerful and creative for his size and disposition.

Cameron Smith was fundamentally boring, a card carrying virtueless thug and cheeky to refs.

Adrian Morley, he was a player and a half.

 

[king_sirro]

That’s not the point being made.
Try and keep up.

Strange considering its the point that YOU made

 

[innsaneink]

I have a slight weigh in with the Joey and drugs debate.

Personally, he admitted use of prohibited substances and it's irrelevant whether they hindered or enhanced his performance. I've never seen him play a full game as he was a little bit before my time but surely there must have been a massive cover up to hide his use. I don't know what action can be taken now, but I would have a ** next to his name when greats are mentioned.

I watched a lot of his games and on field it never appeared like he was affected in any way... Off field very loose as we all know, and the rumours were flying thick.and.fast as well... Not just him but a lot of. Knights

 

[Tucker]

Strange considering its the point that YOU made

You can’t be the GOAT if you only excell at clubland.
When a bloke is not considered first choice for a rep jersey in over 50% of his selections then questions should be asked as to whether he even qualifies for the tag of greatest.
I’m not even diving in to his drug use.

 

[WestsEffTheRest]

CS9 the best to ever lace them up.

 

[weststigers]

Great analysis of it. Benji is often confused for a guy who played recklessly. He has said many times Sheens let him do this stuff because he practiced it religiously. It’s NZL touch football on an NRL field. As Sterlo once said famously, who does that? Benji does.

I also like that you recognise the talent around the halves is important to them playing well. Something often glossed over on here.

You can't really knock a guy that had basically one try involvement per game over an entire career. The stats are quite staggering.

Benji Marshall

The NRL profile of Benji Marshall including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.

www.nrl.com

He had his shortcomings, for sure, but as a half, he could certainly create points.

 

[Tucker]

I have a slight weigh in with the Joey and drugs debate.

Personally, he admitted use of prohibited substances and it's irrelevant whether they hindered or enhanced his performance. I've never seen him play a full game as he was a little bit before my time but surely there must have been a massive cover up to hide his use. I don't know what action can be taken now, but I would have a ** next to his name when greats are mentioned.

Certainly he should.
There’s no way he passed regular testing whilst partying like he did. You also have to understand that Newcastle had a PED problem whilst he was there. Was his results covered up there as well?
Seems suspicious that Gould made him throw himself under the bus for his recreational drug use after being busted with one ecstasy tab. It is possible this was misdirection to continue the cover up of a worse sporting crime.

 

[king_sirro]

You can’t be the GOAT if you only excell at clubland.
When a bloke is not considered first choice for a rep jersey in over 50% of his selections then questions should be asked as to whether he even qualifies for the tag of greatest.
I’m not even diving in to his drug use.

Everyone with any sense of normal thought knows those selections you have brought up to support your point were wildly wrong and weirdly circumstantial as I have pointed out, but I'll do it again just for you.
Chris Anderson had a huge personal bias towards Kimmorley. His national selection of Noddy lead to State selection at this time. Everyone rated Johns the better 7.
The Toovey situation was just plain weird. To name Johns at 9, make him defend in the middle but play 7 in attack showed how above everyone he was. They made him play the hard part of 2 different positions.

 

[Papacito]

The best I've seen is the great Cliffy Lyons. And trust me, I absolutely hate Manly!

It's like the bloke was playing in a different dimension. He was always about four steps ahead of everyone else.

Even late in his career when he was pushing 40 years of age with a dodgy knee, he still totally dominated games.

I also asked one of my mates (who played NRL and origin) who the best he ever played against was and he says Allan Langer was the clear standout.

 

[king_sirro]

The best I've seen is the great Cliffy Lyons. And trust me, I absolutely hate Manly!

It's like the bloke was playing in a different dimension. He was always about four steps ahead of everyone else.

Even late in his career when he was pushing 40 years of age with a dodgy knee, he still totally dominated games.

I also asked one of my mates (who played NRL and origin) who the best he ever played against was and he says Allan Langer was the clear standout.

Cliffy was unbelievable. A simply amazing ball player. The way he could slow things down and play so late was second to none. Inside, outside, short, long it didn't matter, his instinct just hit the right spot at the right moment.

I don't get into the whole GOAT debate. I have no idea who was the best, it's very subjective and can be a little bias. For example I know Slater was a better fullback then Lockyer, but if I'm coaching a team I'm choosing Lockyer as my fullback. His ability to own the big moments and his kicking game make me like him more.

 

[BAGNF05]

I’m responding to posters claiming he single handedly dragged all his teams to success.
The point I’m making is that his perceived greatness is overblown by the media and then carried on by sycophantic fans.
The GOAT dominates all 3 levels of footy. Joey does not meet this criteria.

You’re saying he didn’t dominate origin based on winning percentage. I was there and saw it with my own eyes in 2005 when he went all universe on QLD’s arse. Never seen a better performance.

 

[BAGNF05]

Probably but correct me if I am wrong but not many have openly admitted to it.

Bit hard when the cops find it on you

 

[Tiger Karen]

Coffee break and inspiration:

Match Highlights: Eels v Wests Tigers

The Parramatta Eels host the Wests Tigers during Round 6 of the 2022 NRL Telstra Premiership

www.nrl.com

I loved this game.

The Laurie v Gutho spat was magic.

 

[balmain boy]

You can't really knock a guy that had basically one try involvement per game over an entire career. The stats are quite staggering.

Benji Marshall

The NRL profile of Benji Marshall including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.

www.nrl.com

He had his shortcomings, for sure, but as a half, he could certainly create points.

That's also because he went for the all or nothing play almost every time. As a player he was incapable of being a steady headed tactical oriented player. If there was a 1/100 play available to him he'd pass/kick the ball every time and turn over the ball cheaply just as often as he set up points

 

[BAGNF05]

You can’t be the GOAT if you only excell at clubland.
When a bloke is not considered first choice for a rep jersey in over 50% of his selections then questions should be asked as to whether he even qualifies for the tag of greatest.
I’m not even diving in to his drug use.

Maybe they weren’t GOAT selectors

 

[Leck]

Benji hasn’t been living off a single pass though.
His step & pass style is what made him.

People forget easily his impact because as fans we remember the performances (more bad than good - especially the passes in the stands)

Benji however did things no one else did at the time or prior really let alone even really thought of - was he consistent heck no but he imprinted on the game like no one has in the modern era.

Being involved in junior footy I have never seen the kids of all shapes/sizes have a player imprint like he did before or after - often nearly every kid would do the step and try the flick passes which we now see the steps and flick passes often during the season.

He made a very big imprint on the game attacking wise despite his record with us.

You don't win a golden boot for being second.

 

[BAGNF05]

You can't really knock a guy that had basically one try involvement per game over an entire career. The stats are quite staggering.

Benji Marshall

The NRL profile of Benji Marshall including career statistics, season stats, games, tries, goals, tackles and fantasy scores.

www.nrl.com

He had his shortcomings, for sure, but as a half, he could certainly create points.

Halves is such a risk versus reward position. I’d say Jimmy Maloney would have had a high error count in winning comps and playing grand finals. Johns and Benji more than Cronk because they were “the man” in their teams having to do it all in attack. Comparing great players is always fun, but in the end it comes down to personal preference.