One ref

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

 

[nrlsurvivor]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

 

[innsaneink]

Comparing rep teams that come together for a few weeks to teams that have trained full time for years... Not comparable imo

 

[mike]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

 

[Geo]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

Because it's the speed at which the decision is made...a roll on 6 again doesn't allow the defences to continually reset as the game stops when a penalty is awarded and the kick for touch...

The refs still have the option to blow a penalty if they deem it so..like when Cammy is trying to rip someone's ears off...but can call 6 again if the defending side is merely deliberately slowing the PTB..

The only concern will be as if they are up to it..

 

[nrlsurvivor]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

I think the difference might be that refs will be more willing to call a 6 again penalty as the punishment isn’t as harsh on the defending team than a kick for touch. Just speculating though. We probably won’t know until May 28.

 

[JC99]

Comparing rep teams that come together for a few weeks to teams that have trained full time for years... Not comparable imo

Wouldn’t teams that train all year together be better at wrestling and slowing down the ruck compared to teams who only train a few weeks? Considering NRL clubs practise wrestling constantly that doesn’t make much sense

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

Because it's the speed at which the decision is made...a roll on 6 again doesn't allow the defences to continually reset as the game stops when a penalty is awarded and the kick for touch...

The refs still have the option to blow a penalty if they deem it so..like when Cammy is trying to rip someone's ears off...but can call 6 again if the defending side is merely deliberately slowing the PTB..

The only concern will be as if they are up to it..

So refs can decide whether they want it to be 6 again or a penalty..... that’s going to lead to a whole bunch of inconsistency and angry fans/players. Just more grey areas in the rules which is the last thing we need. Either make it 6 again for everything or did nothing

 

[jirskyr]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

Because it's the speed at which the decision is made...a roll on 6 again doesn't allow the defences to continually reset as the game stops when a penalty is awarded and the kick for touch...

The refs still have the option to blow a penalty if they deem it so..like when Cammy is trying to rip someone's ears off...but can call 6 again if the defending side is merely deliberately slowing the PTB..

The only concern will be as if they are up to it..

Agreed. It is proven that teams can manage continuous sets of 6 if they get a 30-60 second breather in-between, which is normal for a touch-finder. To the point where many teams are willing to give up the yardage from a kick if they can reset the line and defend from a set start every time. Some teams are masterful at defending their line for 6-10 tackles, as they don't have to retreat 10m, any more.

95% of the time teams don't defend more than 5 tackles without a breather, the only exception being if they touch the football and restart the count. In that case it's rarely 5th tackle at the time, so you are normally looking at <5 tackles plus the reset 5 tackles, so maybe 10 tackles is the highest common reset.

This new plan might see resets of 10-15 or even 20 tackles. I can imagine this would be punishing to try and defend. Even the most fit person on the planet can't keep moving indefinitely without a rest, and in the elite world 30 seconds is a pretty big rest.

 

[mike]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

It might be the same game but it’s an entirely different quality.

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

It might be the same game but it’s an entirely different quality.

And somehow the game with the teams who practise wrestling together every single day for years manages to be faster than the international game where they only train for a few weeks.

 

[jirskyr]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

Because it's the speed at which the decision is made...a roll on 6 again doesn't allow the defences to continually reset as the game stops when a penalty is awarded and the kick for touch...

The refs still have the option to blow a penalty if they deem it so..like when Cammy is trying to rip someone's ears off...but can call 6 again if the defending side is merely deliberately slowing the PTB..

The only concern will be as if they are up to it..

So refs can decide whether they want it to be 6 again or a penalty..... that’s going to lead to a whole bunch of inconsistency and angry fans/players. Just more grey areas in the rules which is the last thing we need. Either make it 6 again for everything or did nothing

I don't agree at all. Right now it's penalty or not penalty. What difference is there if they introduce 6-again in place of a penalty? You will be able to tell, the ref blow a penalty or simply signal 6-again (we don't know for a fact what the gesture will be), and you'll know it was an infringement, and the beauty is the play will continue and you won't have time to waste to think about it any further.

And then if refs feel the infrigements are sufficient to warrant a penalty, i.e. kick for touch or shot at goal, then so be it. Or to stop a team and warn or sin-bin.

That's another thing I hadn't thought of - this will allow refs to reset a tackle count in tough situations like late-game or golden point, without having to blow a goal-kicking penalty situation.

 

[JD Tiger]

For me the talk about one referee being on the field will improve consistency is a fallacy. There was an appearance last year (and most years) in inconsistency between the referees each week. I don't mean just when two refs are on the field, but an inconsistency between each referee and even between the performance of a single referee from week to week.

Having one ref on the field at once isn't going to alter that at all.

The one ref system may be better, time will tell, but it won't make the refs more consistent, not one bit.

 

[jirskyr]

For me the talk about one referee being on the field will improve consistency is a fallacy. There was an appearance last year (and most years) in inconsistency between the referees each week. I don't mean just when two refs are on the field, but an inconsistency between each referee and even between the performance of a single referee from week to week.

Having one ref on the field at once isn't going to alter that at all.

The one ref system may be better, time will tell, but it won't make the refs more consistent, not one bit.

Consistently inconsistent?

My point has been that two refs by definition cannot be consistent with each other. At least 1 ref is more likely to be consistent with himself. I think the overall consistency you talk about is between matches and rounds, which this probably won't influence at all, you are right there.

 

[mike]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

It might be the same game but it’s an entirely different quality.

And somehow the game with the teams who practise wrestling together every single day for years manages to be faster than the international game where they only train for a few weeks.

That’s the difference in skill level. We’ll just have to wait to compare apples with apples.

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

I think this argument becomes irrelevant when you add the 6 again instead of penalty. The 2012 all stars game is the only match to have trialled 6 again. It was super fast.

I’m not sure it does. Giving away 6 again won’t deter teams from wrestling. If a penalty with a kick for touch doesn’t why would just 6 again

Because it's the speed at which the decision is made...a roll on 6 again doesn't allow the defences to continually reset as the game stops when a penalty is awarded and the kick for touch...

The refs still have the option to blow a penalty if they deem it so..like when Cammy is trying to rip someone's ears off...but can call 6 again if the defending side is merely deliberately slowing the PTB..

The only concern will be as if they are up to it..

So refs can decide whether they want it to be 6 again or a penalty..... that’s going to lead to a whole bunch of inconsistency and angry fans/players. Just more grey areas in the rules which is the last thing we need. Either make it 6 again for everything or did nothing

I don't agree at all. Right now it's penalty or not penalty. What difference is there if they introduce 6-again in place of a penalty? You will be able to tell, the ref blow a penalty or simply signal 6-again (we don't know for a fact what the gesture will be), and you'll know it was an infringement, and the beauty is the play will continue and you won't have time to waste to think about it any further.

And then if refs feel the infrigements are sufficient to warrant a penalty, i.e. kick for touch or shot at goal, then so be it. Or to stop a team and warn or sin-bin.

That's another thing I hadn't thought of - this will allow refs to reset a tackle count in tough situations like late-game or golden point, without having to blow a goal-kicking penalty situation.

Because teams will want a penalty and instead they’ll get a 6 again or vice versa. How is a single referee meant to be able to control an entire game plus know what call a team wants at certain times. There will be countless times this situation will happen.

In a golden point situation it should ALWAYS be a penalty. Too many times are teams offside and refs are too scared to call it - if you give away a penalty and lose the game because of it too bad. Instead, they’ll give away a penalty and instead of losing its only six again which they might end up not losing from.

 

[jirskyr]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

It might be the same game but it’s an entirely different quality.

And somehow the game with the teams who practise wrestling together every single day for years manages to be faster than the international game where they only train for a few weeks.

That’s the difference in skill level. We’ll just have to wait to compare apples with apples.

Clubs also practice strategies of quick PTB and falling on their fronts more than international sides do. It's the battle between the two systems, of the ruck slow-down (wrestle) and the ruck advancement (hitup and landing / feet).

 

[JC99]

In regards to your last question asking whether the ruck speed has improved with two refs - compared the grand final from last year to the international games from last year, the play the ball speed is about a second half and a half slower with one ref compared to having two. Definitely more wrestle with the one ref

How many games are you measuring this by, and you measured this yourself? Not criticising, just curious the data.

NRL.com has play the ball stats on their website. Just about every international game is at slower than the NRL games. Here’s Roosters vs storm, two of the best wrestlers in the comp last year 

In comparison, this is Tonga vs Great Britain from last year 

Obviously it differs in every match but it’s always slower with the one ref system

Seriously you are comparing a Rolls Royce comp with a Datsun 120Y comp. Apples and Oranges. We won’t know until we can compare the NRL before (two refs no six again) and after (one ref and six again rule). The one ref will also remove the inconsistencies between the two refs on the field. Can’t wait.

It’s the exact same game.... there’s a clear difference. There’s definitely too much inconsistency with the two refs system, one ref should pretty much only control the ruck and the main ref everything else instead if two refs both making different calls on everything. It’s definitely one of the advantages of having one ref

It might be the same game but it’s an entirely different quality.

And somehow the game with the teams who practise wrestling together every single day for years manages to be faster than the international game where they only train for a few weeks.

That’s the difference in skill level. We’ll just have to wait to compare apples with apples.

Yes, the teams with less skill of wrestling together still manage to do it better because there only one ref