gallagher
Well-known member
If you don't cheat you don't get punishment.
Sorry to say it but we cheated.
Sorry to say it but we cheated.
Pascoe sanctioned by the NRL
- Thread starter Tiger_Steve
- Start date
I think the punishment is outrageous as I cannot see intent to gain advantage. Perhaps Justin was a negligent and naive and while ignorance of the law is no excuse, there clearly has been no intention to defraud.
On another issue, I also believe in publicly accusing WTs and then requesting a response shows a lack of due process and is denial of natural justice. Their method is essentially a kangaroo court allowing the media to effectively influence the outcome. League HQ should deal with issue and only announce the findings once all avenues of due process have been completed.
To my mind, it is a farce, mostly designed to use the media to build their case in the court of public opinion.
On another issue, I also believe in publicly accusing WTs and then requesting a response shows a lack of due process and is denial of natural justice. Their method is essentially a kangaroo court allowing the media to effectively influence the outcome. League HQ should deal with issue and only announce the findings once all avenues of due process have been completed.
To my mind, it is a farce, mostly designed to use the media to build their case in the court of public opinion.
Harvey
Well-known member
For those mentioning the link to Gould. The NRL began investigating something that has been public knowledge for 3 years 2 months ago.
What was happening 2 months ago?
I am sure that Ivan (Mr Integrity) Cleary who sits on the NRL’s premiership committee would have nothing to do with this. His successor would struggle to match his 47% SuperCoach record while managing a cap penalty for 3 years.
For those mentioning super league, we might be seeing it. One southern team & wests territory to be split (as per original merger proposals) between Parramatta and Canterbury
What was happening 2 months ago?
I am sure that Ivan (Mr Integrity) Cleary who sits on the NRL’s premiership committee would have nothing to do with this. His successor would struggle to match his 47% SuperCoach record while managing a cap penalty for 3 years.
For those mentioning super league, we might be seeing it. One southern team & wests territory to be split (as per original merger proposals) between Parramatta and Canterbury
The_Patriot
Well-known member
@ said:
This!
gallagher
Well-known member
@ said:
We resigned Farah 2 months ago. Is it to do with that? I dunno, the timing is a bit weird.
hammertime
Well-known member
We should get on the front foot with this Iike the sharks did. Robbie and Go in front of a camera declaring their support for justin.
@ said:
Yes ..I would have thought that would have happened already..
@ said:
Because it's never Farahs fault. He can come straight out and say nothing was signed. Given he hasn't shows it's likely he did sign. For such a staunch club man, he sure has a funny way of showing it. Nevertheless, it was well known around the traps and those that should have known (definitely would have known) and said nothing owe us all an explanation as to why it's only now being raised. This must surely have been known by the NRL way back then. It seems odd that as soon as we start to rise, get a successful coach, make a profit, get some stability about the place and perhaps to start to become competitive or even a threat they can't handle it. Would be amazing to see the club break all records of membership, punch above their weight on field and shove it right up those mongrels at HQ.
Nucky_Thompson
New member
@ said:
Get a grip. The club should never have turffed him. The fact they got him back now this just how stupid it was.
HabboTiger
Well-known member
@ said:
Greenberg is a dud.
G
Guest
Guest
Furious Wests Tigers to challenge Pascoe ban, salary-cap fines
By Andrew Webster
19 December 2018 — 8:35pm
Wests Tigers chair Marina Go has vowed to take on the NRL over the sensational deregistration of chief executive Justin Pascoe for failing to disclose a lucrative ambassadorial role for hooker Robbie Farah when he retires.
The Tigers were left reeling when NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg handed the club a whopping $750,000 fine – as well as ripping $639,000 out of next season's salary cap – because they had not declared the arrangement when Farah left the club in 2016.
The sanctions came on the same day that Cronulla coach Shane Flanagan was also deregistered and his club fined $800,000 for him allegedly breaching the conditions of his year-long suspension in 2014 for his role in the peptides scandal.
The punishment meted out to the Tigers threatens to have severe implications on their on-field performance with the club still trying to fill three positions in its 30-man roster for next season.
It is understood the Tigers have $700,000 of space in their cap and are actively trying to recruit Souths winger Robert Jennings. Forward Zane Musgrove's future at the club is uncertain after he was charged with the alleged indecent assault of a 22-year-old woman in Coogee last month.
As revealed by the Herald earlier this week, the Tigers were bracing themselves for a heavy reprimand following a two-month investigation by the NRL's integrity unit into the Farah deal.
But nobody in Tiger land expected Pascoe to lose his job – not least because other members of the board, including Go, were aware of the deal.
They have until the end of January to respond.
"We do not accept the allegations outlined in the breach notice," Go said. "We reject that the club has breached the NRL rules or that our conduct warrants the sanctions proposed. The breach notice relates to events that occurred some time ago, in relation to an ambassador role for Robbie post-retirement. The arrangement was entered into years after his playing contract had been signed and had nothing to do with Robbie's playing commitments. The club derived no competitive advantage from the arrangement."
Pascoe has told the NRL he offered the ambassador role to Farah during the former NSW hooker's ugly departure to Souths in early 2017\. It was considered a goodwill gesture as Farah was squeezed out because of a fallout with coach Jason Taylor.
As far as the NRL is concerned, the Tigers and Pascoe breached salary-cap rules because they did not disclose the arrangement.
There is no suggestion that Farah or his agent, Sam Ayoub, have done anything wrong.
"When a player leaves your club, you have to declare and disclose the entire remuneration," Greenberg said. "On this occasion, a significant portion was not disclosed to the salary cap auditor."
What also raised the NRL's suspicions was that the Tigers had asked for salary-cap relief after having to pay out almost $1 million to Farah after he signed with Souths because the Tigers claimed he had been "destabilising influence".
"There's a provision in our rules that enable clubs in circumstances when they move players on for reputational reasons to apply to the NRL to have money excluded from the salary cap," NRL chief operating officer Nick Weeks said. "After Robbie left, and the club paid him money that was owed to him under his contract, they approached us to exclude some of those payments on the basis that Robbie was a destabilising influence on the club.
"What they didn't disclose is that the club had earlier entered into an ambassador agreement to bring him back. On our assessment of that, that's misleading. We put that to the club, and we've asked them to give an explanation. That's the contradiction we're struggling to understand."
By Andrew Webster
19 December 2018 — 8:35pm
Wests Tigers chair Marina Go has vowed to take on the NRL over the sensational deregistration of chief executive Justin Pascoe for failing to disclose a lucrative ambassadorial role for hooker Robbie Farah when he retires.
The Tigers were left reeling when NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg handed the club a whopping $750,000 fine – as well as ripping $639,000 out of next season's salary cap – because they had not declared the arrangement when Farah left the club in 2016.
The sanctions came on the same day that Cronulla coach Shane Flanagan was also deregistered and his club fined $800,000 for him allegedly breaching the conditions of his year-long suspension in 2014 for his role in the peptides scandal.
The punishment meted out to the Tigers threatens to have severe implications on their on-field performance with the club still trying to fill three positions in its 30-man roster for next season.
It is understood the Tigers have $700,000 of space in their cap and are actively trying to recruit Souths winger Robert Jennings. Forward Zane Musgrove's future at the club is uncertain after he was charged with the alleged indecent assault of a 22-year-old woman in Coogee last month.
As revealed by the Herald earlier this week, the Tigers were bracing themselves for a heavy reprimand following a two-month investigation by the NRL's integrity unit into the Farah deal.
But nobody in Tiger land expected Pascoe to lose his job – not least because other members of the board, including Go, were aware of the deal.
They have until the end of January to respond.
"We do not accept the allegations outlined in the breach notice," Go said. "We reject that the club has breached the NRL rules or that our conduct warrants the sanctions proposed. The breach notice relates to events that occurred some time ago, in relation to an ambassador role for Robbie post-retirement. The arrangement was entered into years after his playing contract had been signed and had nothing to do with Robbie's playing commitments. The club derived no competitive advantage from the arrangement."
Pascoe has told the NRL he offered the ambassador role to Farah during the former NSW hooker's ugly departure to Souths in early 2017\. It was considered a goodwill gesture as Farah was squeezed out because of a fallout with coach Jason Taylor.
As far as the NRL is concerned, the Tigers and Pascoe breached salary-cap rules because they did not disclose the arrangement.
There is no suggestion that Farah or his agent, Sam Ayoub, have done anything wrong.
"When a player leaves your club, you have to declare and disclose the entire remuneration," Greenberg said. "On this occasion, a significant portion was not disclosed to the salary cap auditor."
What also raised the NRL's suspicions was that the Tigers had asked for salary-cap relief after having to pay out almost $1 million to Farah after he signed with Souths because the Tigers claimed he had been "destabilising influence".
"There's a provision in our rules that enable clubs in circumstances when they move players on for reputational reasons to apply to the NRL to have money excluded from the salary cap," NRL chief operating officer Nick Weeks said. "After Robbie left, and the club paid him money that was owed to him under his contract, they approached us to exclude some of those payments on the basis that Robbie was a destabilising influence on the club.
"What they didn't disclose is that the club had earlier entered into an ambassador agreement to bring him back. On our assessment of that, that's misleading. We put that to the club, and we've asked them to give an explanation. That's the contradiction we're struggling to understand."
G
Guest
Guest
Just a reminder that any posts containing swearing - disguised or otherwise will be deleted. Same applies for offensive posts.
supercoach
Well-known member
@ said:
Sadly we are up against a kangaroo court and a organisation that can do what it likes and answers to no one
like him or not, Farah was a destabilizing force in the club at the time. My God, do they not forget the drama at the time? The whole scenario tore the club into two camps. Being a leader off field post career isn't unreasonable. I'll never like the bloke, but I respect the fact that plenty do. So post career, and without the pressures of on field performance, salary cap space and so on, there's a strong argument that he may well fit the bill as an ambassador. Pascoe probably looked at things in a reasoned way as a good CEO would (unlike so many before him) and decided this path the correct one to take. If in fact the agreement wasn't lodged, therein lies the problem. If it even at all exists. He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - or so it seems.
G
Guest
Guest
Tigers not disclosing Farah's post-career role gets CEO in trouble
Author - Margie McDonald - Senior Reporter
Timestamp - Wed 19 Dec 2018, 02:45 PM
Wests Tigers CEO Justin Pascoe has a month to explain to the NRL how Robbie Farah was initially let go by the club for being "a destabilising influence", while also negotiating a four-year ambassadorial role with them for when he retired.
It is this contradiction in sentiment over the 34-year-old that has landed the Tigers boss in hot water.
On Wednesday, the NRL stood its ground – in particular on Rule 91A (1) – that any termination agreement with a player must include any future employment at that club, or any other NRL club.
In other words clubs must disclose total remuneration on what has been given, or promised, to a player.
"A significant portion was not disclosed to the salary cap auditor and that creates great concerns for us," NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg said.
The NRL has fined the Tigers $750,000 and added the amount of $639,000, which is the value of Farah's ambassadorial contract, to the Tigers' 2019 salary cap.
It is also seeking to cancel Pascoe's registration as CEO.
The club has until the end of January to appeal the breach notice.
The NRL was up front in saying that neither Farah or his manager, Sam Ayoub, were at fault. Together they struck a sound financial deal from the Tigers.
It also appears Pascoe was a lone wolf in this issue, as no other directors or chair Marina Go were mentioned in Wednesday's breach notice.
"Justin has a preliminary sanction on him today," Greenberg said. "There are no requirements on the board from what the information is in front of me at the moment."
Wests Tigers chair Marina Go said the club would be "vigorously defending" the proposed penalties.
"We do not accept the allegations outlined in the breach notice. We reject that the club has breached the NRL rules or that our conduct warrants the sanctions proposed," Go said.
"The breach notice relates to events that occurred some time ago, in relation to an ambassador role for Robbie Farah post-retirement. The arrangement was entered into years after his playing contract had been signed and had nothing to do with Robbie's playing commitments.
"The club derived no competitive advantage from the arrangement.
"Whilst shocked and disappointed by the NRL's announcement today, we intend to follow the proper process and vigorously defend the club's position."
The club has confirmed it was in talks with Farah in November 2015 about an ambassadorial role after he finished playing. Yet in January 2017 the club's termination agreement with Farah stated that they had to let him go because the impasse was affecting sponsorships and ruining harmony at the Tigers.
In those circumstances the NRL can grant salary cap relief of around 30 per cent.
"When a player moves on for reputational reasons [a club] can apply to the NRL to have money excluded from the salary cap," chief operating officer Nick Weeks said on Wednesday.
"After Robbie left the club paid him money he was owed under that contract and they approached us to exclude some of those payments on the basis that Robbie was a destabilising influence on the club.
"What they didn't disclose when they made that statement was that the club had earlier entered into an ambassador agreement to bring him back.
"On our assessment of that is misleading and we've put that to the club and asked them and asked them to provide an explanation."
The Wests Tigers statement said the ambassadorial role was not "in any way" tied to Farah's playing contract.
But it is understood both deals were done in tandem.
After those November 2015 talks, a draft document on a four-year ambassador role was done in early 2016 – Farah's final year at the Tigers before he joined South Sydney in 2017\. He returned to the Tigers mid-season in 2018.
Farah was dropped to reserve grade in July 2016 but in August, Ayoub confirmed to the club that his client would not be leaving the Tigers until the ambassador contract was finalised.
Then in January the termination deed was sent to the NRL with no mention of the ambassador role.
The NRL asked for a copy of this contract but initially was told it was "lost". A copy was eventually found and submitted.
"The rules are very simple, and very clear, to understand in this space," Greenberg said.
The Tigers statement said it was concerned about "the wrongful attack" on Pascoe's integrity.
"The club will be vigorously defending this."
Author - Margie McDonald - Senior Reporter
Timestamp - Wed 19 Dec 2018, 02:45 PM
Wests Tigers CEO Justin Pascoe has a month to explain to the NRL how Robbie Farah was initially let go by the club for being "a destabilising influence", while also negotiating a four-year ambassadorial role with them for when he retired.
It is this contradiction in sentiment over the 34-year-old that has landed the Tigers boss in hot water.
On Wednesday, the NRL stood its ground – in particular on Rule 91A (1) – that any termination agreement with a player must include any future employment at that club, or any other NRL club.
In other words clubs must disclose total remuneration on what has been given, or promised, to a player.
"A significant portion was not disclosed to the salary cap auditor and that creates great concerns for us," NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg said.
The NRL has fined the Tigers $750,000 and added the amount of $639,000, which is the value of Farah's ambassadorial contract, to the Tigers' 2019 salary cap.
It is also seeking to cancel Pascoe's registration as CEO.
The club has until the end of January to appeal the breach notice.
The NRL was up front in saying that neither Farah or his manager, Sam Ayoub, were at fault. Together they struck a sound financial deal from the Tigers.
It also appears Pascoe was a lone wolf in this issue, as no other directors or chair Marina Go were mentioned in Wednesday's breach notice.
"Justin has a preliminary sanction on him today," Greenberg said. "There are no requirements on the board from what the information is in front of me at the moment."
Wests Tigers chair Marina Go said the club would be "vigorously defending" the proposed penalties.
"We do not accept the allegations outlined in the breach notice. We reject that the club has breached the NRL rules or that our conduct warrants the sanctions proposed," Go said.
"The breach notice relates to events that occurred some time ago, in relation to an ambassador role for Robbie Farah post-retirement. The arrangement was entered into years after his playing contract had been signed and had nothing to do with Robbie's playing commitments.
"The club derived no competitive advantage from the arrangement.
"Whilst shocked and disappointed by the NRL's announcement today, we intend to follow the proper process and vigorously defend the club's position."
The club has confirmed it was in talks with Farah in November 2015 about an ambassadorial role after he finished playing. Yet in January 2017 the club's termination agreement with Farah stated that they had to let him go because the impasse was affecting sponsorships and ruining harmony at the Tigers.
In those circumstances the NRL can grant salary cap relief of around 30 per cent.
"When a player moves on for reputational reasons [a club] can apply to the NRL to have money excluded from the salary cap," chief operating officer Nick Weeks said on Wednesday.
"After Robbie left the club paid him money he was owed under that contract and they approached us to exclude some of those payments on the basis that Robbie was a destabilising influence on the club.
"What they didn't disclose when they made that statement was that the club had earlier entered into an ambassador agreement to bring him back.
"On our assessment of that is misleading and we've put that to the club and asked them and asked them to provide an explanation."
The Wests Tigers statement said the ambassadorial role was not "in any way" tied to Farah's playing contract.
But it is understood both deals were done in tandem.
After those November 2015 talks, a draft document on a four-year ambassador role was done in early 2016 – Farah's final year at the Tigers before he joined South Sydney in 2017\. He returned to the Tigers mid-season in 2018.
Farah was dropped to reserve grade in July 2016 but in August, Ayoub confirmed to the club that his client would not be leaving the Tigers until the ambassador contract was finalised.
Then in January the termination deed was sent to the NRL with no mention of the ambassador role.
The NRL asked for a copy of this contract but initially was told it was "lost". A copy was eventually found and submitted.
"The rules are very simple, and very clear, to understand in this space," Greenberg said.
The Tigers statement said it was concerned about "the wrongful attack" on Pascoe's integrity.
"The club will be vigorously defending this."
larrycorowa
New member
How does $400k over 4yrs turn into $639k?