Pascoe sanctioned by the NRL

[JD Tiger]

I have absolutely no idea and I'm just guessing, but I wonder if the tigers submitted to Ayoub a letter of offer to employ Farah at retirement. For Ayoub, that is good enough to lock the tigers into an agreement without his clients signature, but to the NRL, it's a letter of offer which is probably required to be disclosed.

The argument could be that the tigers don't need to disclose anything because it hasn't bee1n agreed to. Simple. Or maybe not so simple.

Anyone ?

Pretty sure for a contract to be valid there needs to be and offer and acceptance. Nelson sounds like he's a legal eagle so maybe he can confirm or refute that.

If there is no contract that can be located then the whole thing is hearsay. My word against yours which means jack.

Even if they locate a letter of offer and is not duly executed, again it is not binding. A letter of offer is similar to a heads of agreement. This is the high level contract negotiations before the actual contract is negotiated and signed by both.

If the letter stipulates it is for a role not playing football I can’t see the problem. I can’t see a problem either if it has no commencement date.

If WT challenge the NRL and win then the Tigers and Pascoe should sue the NRL. Pascoe for loss of income and WT for wrongful prosecution and disruption to business operations. But hey, that’s me.

This is not correct for a number of reasons. Firstly, the title of a document doesnt determine whether it is a legally binding contract. The key issue is whether there is an intention to create legal relations. For example, heads of agreement can be binding or non-binding and the former is just as much as a contract as any other contract.

Secondly, a letter of offer usually (but is not always) is a contractual document, particularly in an employment context. Usally a letter of offer (which is signed by the employee) is the only employment contract entered into.

Putting aside these issues, the question of whether an unsigned letter of offer is a binding contract is not a simple one. If parties prepare a document that remains unsigned y the receiving party but in accordance with the document, then the receiving party will be considered to have accepted the terms and it will have contractual force.

What does this mean for the club and Farah? Dont really know. The issue for me is not whether there was a binding contract (and there may not be anyway as it is not clear that the club received any consideration for the offer to RF) but whether the offer was made to reduce what the club had to contribute to RF’s salary when he went to Souths.

If it didnt, then this is all bunk. If it did, then we are rightfully screwed.

I think it's pretty clear that we still topped up Robbie's Souths contract so that he received the full amount that he was owed. Depending on the timing of this post career job offer, was it used as an incentive for Robbie to leave? It was clear that he didn't want to leave, and this arrangement seemed to be about him coming back, it may have been how he was pushed out.

Still seems very biased by NRL. We get screwed and labelled as cheats for basically nothing.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Pretty sure for a contract to be valid there needs to be and offer and acceptance. Nelson sounds like he's a legal eagle so maybe he can confirm or refute that.

If there is no contract that can be located then the whole thing is hearsay. My word against yours which means jack.

Even if they locate a letter of offer and is not duly executed, again it is not binding. A letter of offer is similar to a heads of agreement. This is the high level contract negotiations before the actual contract is negotiated and signed by both.

If the letter stipulates it is for a role not playing football I can’t see the problem. I can’t see a problem either if it has no commencement date.

If WT challenge the NRL and win then the Tigers and Pascoe should sue the NRL. Pascoe for loss of income and WT for wrongful prosecution and disruption to business operations. But hey, that’s me.

This is not correct for a number of reasons. Firstly, the title of a document doesnt determine whether it is a legally binding contract. The key issue is whether there is an intention to create legal relations. For example, heads of agreement can be binding or non-binding and the former is just as much as a contract as any other contract.

Secondly, a letter of offer usually (but is not always) is a contractual document, particularly in an employment context. Usally a letter of offer (which is signed by the employee) is the only employment contract entered into.

Putting aside these issues, the question of whether an unsigned letter of offer is a binding contract is not a simple one. If parties prepare a document that remains unsigned y the receiving party but in accordance with the document, then the receiving party will be considered to have accepted the terms and it will have contractual force.

What does this mean for the club and Farah? Dont really know. The issue for me is not whether there was a binding contract (and there may not be anyway as it is not clear that the club received any consideration for the offer to RF) but whether the offer was made to reduce what the club had to contribute to RF’s salary when he went to Souths.

If it didnt, then this is all bunk. If it did, then we are rightfully screwed.

I think it's pretty clear that we still topped up Robbie's Souths contract so that he received the full amount that he was owed. Depending on the timing of this post career job offer, was it used as an incentive for Robbie to leave? It was clear that he didn't want to leave, and this arrangement seemed to be about him coming back, it may have been how he was pushed out.

Still seems very biased by NRL. We get screwed and labelled as cheats for basically nothing.

No TT, my recollection has Pascoe coming into his role and quickly softening things with Robbie, which I thought was a mistake and wrote about it on here at the time. The post career role had it's beginnings sometime shortly after and way before Pascoe joined in the push to get him out the door.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Funny that all of the clubs that have been done for anything to do with cap breaches, all made a lot of noise about being innocent, yet all were buried beneath a pile of facts,
Why would be any difference with us,
The NRL seem to not make accusations without hard evidence,
To kick Pascoe out like they’ve done they must have something pretty solid to back their charges up

The NRL better have solid evidence against our CEO as this is not just a case brought against a club in general this attack has basically ruined a career and personally trashed his reputation as I have eluded to previously this is a very serious situation and I would think this will not be taken lightly by Justin Pascoe .I have a feeling the NRL might have over reacted with the attack on our CEO ..IMO the longer this goes on with no evidence brought forward into the public arena the more serious this will become , legal types keep things tight for a reason .

That’s what I was referring to
They must have a pretty strong case to even consider doing what they’ve done
While we all want to think that they are idiots, they have been pretty thorough in all the cases that they’ve made public in the past.
I don’t want to lose that amount of cap money,
But I have a feeling that that they have much more Ammunition yet to bring forward..

They wouldn’t have came down so hard if they didnt think that Pascoe was a goner .
I t could be a while before we know what’s been happening

 

[Harvey]

I think that the NRL process will not stand up in court.

They and Pascoe have been denied natural justice through the fact that evidence was not available to them, and they were not allowed to address the issue before findings and penalties were handed down.

 

[cochise]

My understanding is the Tigers signed a contract, which was sent to RF's manager. This remained unsigned by Robbie but his manager still has the contract ready to be signed when RF finishes is career. When the NRL asked about thr contract the Tigers did not have a copy of the contract.

Now it is possible that this was an offer that RF has not taken up, but look at it from the NRL's point of view, this would be an easy way to circumvent the NRL rules. Many here would be up in arms if the roosters did the same!

 

[Defiant]

Yep. They are just lucky there happened to be a vacant role available when Mini retired.

 

[gallagher]

My understanding is the Tigers signed a contract, which was sent to RF's manager. This remained unsigned by Robbie but his manager still has the contract ready to be signed when RF finishes is career. When the NRL asked about thr contract the Tigers did not have a copy of the contract.

Now it is possible that this was an offer that RF has not taken up, but look at it from the NRL's point of view, this would be an easy way to circumvent the NRL rules. Many here would be up in arms if the roosters did the same!

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

 

[cochise]

My understanding is the Tigers signed a contract, which was sent to RF's manager. This remained unsigned by Robbie but his manager still has the contract ready to be signed when RF finishes is career. When the NRL asked about thr contract the Tigers did not have a copy of the contract.

Now it is possible that this was an offer that RF has not taken up, but look at it from the NRL's point of view, this would be an easy way to circumvent the NRL rules. Many here would be up in arms if the roosters did the same!

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

 

[cochise]

Yep. They are just lucky there happened to be a vacant role available when Mini retired.

Problem is the Tigers put it in writing and got caught.

 

[gallagher]

My understanding is the Tigers signed a contract, which was sent to RF's manager. This remained unsigned by Robbie but his manager still has the contract ready to be signed when RF finishes is career. When the NRL asked about thr contract the Tigers did not have a copy of the contract.

Now it is possible that this was an offer that RF has not taken up, but look at it from the NRL's point of view, this would be an easy way to circumvent the NRL rules. Many here would be up in arms if the roosters did the same!

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

 

[JD Tiger]

My understanding is the Tigers signed a contract, which was sent to RF's manager. This remained unsigned by Robbie but his manager still has the contract ready to be signed when RF finishes is career. When the NRL asked about thr contract the Tigers did not have a copy of the contract.

Now it is possible that this was an offer that RF has not taken up, but look at it from the NRL's point of view, this would be an easy way to circumvent the NRL rules. Many here would be up in arms if the roosters did the same!

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

 

[cochise]

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

I think the benefit the Tigers were striving for was Robbie to leave the club, but the NRL could argue the Tigers plan was for him to return to the club as he has done. The problem is they don't need to prove the reason we paid him extra just the fact that we intended to pay him extra and didn't inform the NRL.

The NRL now has a copy of the contract so I am sure they are aware of who has signed it.

I know there wasn't a copy of the contract at the Tigers offices, I do not know if their were multiple contracts offsite. I do know if people found out their were contracts sitting in managers offices signed by the Rooster ceo, but unsigned by the players, offering future roles at the club that people on here wouldn't be as understanding as they have been in this situation.

 

[cochise]

Double

 

[Nucky_Thompson]

Surely a contract worth that amount of money would have a date of acceptance in it.
You wouldn't leave it open.

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

This is how I understand it.

Tigers wanted to move on farah. Paid out farah contract. Applied for cap relief as coach advised disablising to the current squad.

Pascoe offered farah contract for farah to come back to help the club with off field duties nothing to do with playing squad.
\
\
Anyone add anything?

 

[cochise]

You would if you were using it as an added benefit that you didn't want the NRL to be aware of. What the Tigers have done is a possible way of rorting the cap, whether that was their intention or not does not matter to the NRL.

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

This is how I understand it.

Tigers wanted to move on farah. Paid out farah contract. Applied for cap relief as coach advised disablising to the current squad.

Pascoe offered farah contract for farah to come back to help the club with off field duties nothing to do with playing squad.
\
\
Anyone add anything?

Contract was offered and signed by Tigers before the Tigers applied for cap relief. Offer was not communicated to NRL, and no copy was retained by the Tigers.

 

[sheer64]

I couldnt agree more. Blatant cheating if you ask me.

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

This is how I understand it.

Tigers wanted to move on farah. Paid out farah contract. Applied for cap relief as coach advised disablising to the current squad.

Pascoe offered farah contract for farah to come back to help the club with off field duties nothing to do with playing squad.
\
\
Anyone add anything?

**Contract was offered and signed by Tigers before the Tigers applied for cap relief**. Offer was not communicated to NRL, and no copy was retained by the Tigers.

Which they never got, so what?

 

[cochise]

If all that is true, are we saying that Robbie's manager had the only copy? Why did the NRL only think it was an issue recently? And from who did they find out about it being signed by WT but not Robbie?

And if it all went down like you described, where do WT benefit? He never signed on for less than market value, there's no way we intended to circumvent the cap via this method. We received no advantage. So at worst we made a stupid mistake, there's no deliberate cheating in what has been described.

This is how I understand it.

Tigers wanted to move on farah. Paid out farah contract. Applied for cap relief as coach advised disablising to the current squad.

Pascoe offered farah contract for farah to come back to help the club with off field duties nothing to do with playing squad.
\
\
Anyone add anything?

**Contract was offered and signed by Tigers before the Tigers applied for cap relief**. Offer was not communicated to NRL, and no copy was retained by the Tigers.

Which they never got, so what?

The cap relief is a red herring, the problem is a contract signed by the Tigers was given to RF's manager to be signed in the future.

People are looking at this with black, gold and white tinted glasses on, I don't know if it was the Tigers intention to rort the cap, but what they have done is a way to potentially cheat the systems and they have been punished for that.

 

[Russell]

This is how I understand it.

Tigers wanted to move on farah. Paid out farah contract. Applied for cap relief as coach advised disablising to the current squad.

Pascoe offered farah contract for farah to come back to help the club with off field duties nothing to do with playing squad.
\
\
Anyone add anything?

**Contract was offered and signed by Tigers before the Tigers applied for cap relief**. Offer was not communicated to NRL, and no copy was retained by the Tigers.

Which they never got, so what?

The cap relief is a red herring, the problem is a contract signed by the Tigers was given to RF's manager to be signed in the future.

People are looking at this with black, gold and white tinted glasses on, I don't know if it was the Tigers intention to rort the cap, but what they have done is a way to potentially cheat the systems and they have been punished for that.

What did the WT gain?

If you don't gain anything - why would you intentionally cheat?

 

[hsvjones]

Still believe the punishment does not fit the crime.. Clubs like the Eels broke the SC rules and were not dealt with this hard and they kept lying to the NRL until they dug up everything.. This is a contract after a players career and does not effect the players cap at all but we are asked to take the full penalty off our players cap this year…..
So when the next team is caught actually cheating the cap i would only assume they will lose there CEO, Be stripped of points, and a massive fine..
If we have done the wrong thing i can accept this but feel like the NRL is just trying to make an example of us but not the real cheats.. Eels, Sharks etc..

 

[gallagher]

Still believe the punishment does not fit the crime.. Clubs like the Eels broke the SC rules and were not dealt with this hard and they kept lying to the NRL until they dug up everything.. This is a contract after a players career and does not effect the players cap at all but we are asked to take the full penalty off our players cap this year…..
So when the next team is caught actually cheating the cap i would only assume they will lose there CEO, Be stripped of points, and a massive fine..
If we have done the wrong thing i can accept this but feel like the NRL is just trying to make an example of us but not the real cheats.. Eels, Sharks etc..

The eels got a bigger punishment.
$1mill fine, comp points, nines title and prizemoney stripped and 5 director's deregistered.