Pascoe sanctioned by the NRL

[GNR4LIFE]

Calling the shots from afar worked well for Flanagan and the Sharks didn’t it,
We’d have to be the dopiest club in history to try that Again

Too true. About as dumb as anyone who would think WT would go about it as brazen as the Sharks did. Flanagan signing a coaching extension whilst suspended was hardly the brightest thing to do. Likewise for him attending games whilst suspended under the premise of "watching my son play reggies". Nevermind the extensive email trail the buffoons left behind for the NRL to reel them in. One would think there are smarter ways to get around it than that no?

So when other clubs rort the system they are maggots, but if we can get away with it "hey, why not".

Bloody oath. Anyone with half a brain can surely see that clubs who participate and operate "honestly" within the current NRL system are absolutely no chance of vying for a premiership. This is pretty obvious to most with a passing interest in the game.
Long story short, yep cheaters are maggots but to compete with the likes of Easts, Broncos, Storm, Sharks etc clubs will have to find ways to deceive the shonky, lopsided system currently in place.
Sick of supporting a club that is by and large run honestly, yet getting our arses flogged by clubs who are laughably considered to be operating above-board. So it is most definitely a case of "can't beat 'em, join 'em". 100%
Ask the s###bag Storm players and fans whether their celebrations for "winning" on GF night were dulled by being stripped of those premierships years later? I most certainly would still enjoy a WT GF win in 2019 and the weeks of partying afterwards even if we got caught out and stripped down the track.
Cheats win premierships, honest clubs prop up the ladder year after year. Sad but true.
Look at Newcastle, they are pretty much sick of finishing cellar-dwellars so are starting to show some real signs of brown-paper-bagging in order to get their club up to speed with the big boys.

All well and good if you think clubs are better off rorting, however you can't call some clubs maggots for doing it while patting others on the back.

 

[balmain boy]

Surely even if Pascoe is found guilty, the punishment is excessive and should be greatly reduced (but it is the crooked, wishy-washy NRL we are dealing with unfortunately). Egan should be the talking head whilst Pascoe calls the shots from afar….if there is no paper/email/phone trails it shouldnt be too difficult to negotiate for a few months. We are not one of the "chosen clubs" however so the lowlife NRL will be busting their gut to catch us out through fair means or foul.

Calling the shots from afar worked well for Flanagan and the Sharks didn’t it,
We’d have to be the dopiest club in history to try that Again

Too true. About as dumb as anyone who would think WT would go about it as brazen as the Sharks did. Flanagan signing a coaching extension whilst suspended was hardly the brightest thing to do. Likewise for him attending games whilst suspended under the premise of "watching my son play reggies". Nevermind the extensive email trail the buffoons left behind for the NRL to reel them in. One would think there are smarter ways to get around it than that no?

So when other clubs rort the system they are maggots, but if we can get away with it "hey, why not".

But we haven't rorted the system. That's one of the key points…!
Rorting implies a process of intentional deception to receive a benefit of some sort. There is no intentional deception, nor is there any benefit received.
What we may have done would more accurately be called an administrative error. For which there may be punishments, but they should be far less severe than those who have intentional rorted the cap.

 

[prattenparkchild]

If we are shown to be guilty and involved in deception we deserve all we get, but if events anything less, we cannot accept this laying down. Too much in dispute- where was the contract offsite? By just using this description the NRL are painting a picture of deception, was the offsite just storage for all other 2015 records? If the contract is not signed by both parties, it is not a valid contract- simple. NRL can argue intent but in a court of law its debatable since the intended action has not in any way happened. Farah has said himself, he hasnt signed it, has not taken up the offer and is still playing. To be truthful, I can see him walking way from the club after all this when he retires.

Edit- we also have dark picture painted by NRL of not being informed. 1/ did Pascoe think the NRL should only be informed when Farah signed the offered contract. 2/ being so much in the public forum at the time, where is the NRL responsibility to check on what's happening in such a high profile reputational risk situation for the club and game as a whole. I.e. passive versus proactive inquiry. That in itself is a great thing to tease out in a court scenario. We have a great potential to embarrass them. We owe them nothing.

 

[Newtown]

The "Unfair Dismissal Act" is still current, The following is from a company of Lawyers who specialise in the Act;

"Unfair dismissal can be a complex legal issue and will often require expert advice.
A strict 21 day time limit from the date of your termination applies, so you must act quickly!

If you think your termination was unfair, harsh, unjust or unreasonable, you may have a claim. This might be as simple as you not being given an opportunity to respond to any allegations that resulted in your termination or, where the termination related to unsatisfactory performance, whether you were warned about these performance issues.

We can help to lodge your unfair dismissal application and will work with you to find the best possible solution."

 

[Lauren]

There doesn't have to be a smoking gun and the NRL doesn't need us to gain an advantage to punish the club**, though I believe the club received an advantage.**

You have probably already answered this, but what exact advantage do you believe the club received? I’ve also seen you suggest that the club agreed to pay RF money that was owed to him, that _no one knew about_. Is this tied to third party payments? Weren’t we seeking cap relief due to paying RF out?

I’ve yet to actually read most of this thread from the past week but have seen a post re: Rule 91A (1) -declaring future roles for players to the NRL- yet admit I still don’t understand how Pascoe’s handling of things is considered highly deceiving, and is being lumped in the same category with Storm and Eels. I get that there are guidelines to reduce cap breaches and Pascoe failed to comply with certain NRL procedures. But how on earth are the imposed penalties considered just?

Is the issue that the NRL believe Farah was promised an ambassador role in lieu of money owed to him by the club?

1\. The advantage that I believe the Tigers could have been seeking was RF leaving the club, this saved them $200k salary cap wise, but with RF coming back, the NRL could quite easily argue that the advantage was to ensure that he returned the Tigers. Doesn't matter if he returned on market value. The advantage could have also included the money they would have saved cap wise if the NRL accepted the cap relief application.

2\. I'm unsure of where the money owed to him come from, I'm no longer going to discuss the information that I was told as it was made clear that information wasn't welcome. I will say the speculation of a TPA makes sense to me.

3\. The NRL claim the deception lies in the fact that the club didn't inform the NRL, the contract was hidden from them and kept offsite from the club, which if true does look to be pretty damning to me. In the NRL eyes, the deception was then compounded by the fact the Tigers sought salary cap relief for Farah on the grounds of him being disruptive while offering him a post career contract.

4\. I don't think the NRL care what the reason for the role was/is. The Tigers have either purposefully, or by really poor management breached the cap rules in away that is a way to easily rort the cap, it is not really the NRL's onus to prove why they breached the rules, only that they did.

I will say I am not 100% sure the Tigers breached the cap deliberately, if they didn't then this is a very bad mistake.

It also needs to be remembered that the Tigers have been punished at no where near the same level as Parramatta and Melbourne.

Thanks.
I think the system is well and truly broken when a governing body demonstrates such inconsistency and bias, without any concealment. And I still believe the imposed penalties - for breaching a basically unknown or little known rule - is excessive.

I think I’ll withhold any further comments on the unpaid money and contract until more is revealed. But regardless of what is uncovered re: all this, I still think our management has done an exceptional job in the last couple of years.

Sorry didn’t necessarily mean the level or extent of punishment but more that we’ve been publicly categorised similarly to those teams.

 

[Newtown]

From the NSW Justice Department;

"What is unfair dismissal?

Was it unfair?
To make an unfair dismissal application, the termination of your employment must have been unfair.

Your dismissal will be considered unfair if it was harsh, unjust or unreasonable. The Commission will consider the reasons for your dismissal, and the process followed by your employer when deciding whether a dismissal was harsh, unjust or unreasonable."

 

[prattenparkchild]

This is part of the existing quagmire. Pascoe is employed by Wests Tigers but must have registration with the governing NRL body. So its not unfair dismissal. However, it's restriction of earning by the governing body in withdrawing registration. Different legal dispute pathway. Restriction of trade? That was used by the players association when they scuttled the draft proposal some years ago.

 

[Plato]

That's the word, " intent". Without it Pascoe was stupid, with it he was dishonest. Pretty much the same as premeditation is the only difference between murder and manslaughter. I trust Pascoe and think he simply tried to bend the rules rather than break them, and would not have been put in that position had the rules not been so complex and open to interpretation.

 

[Yossarian]

From the NSW Justice Department;

"What is unfair dismissal?

Was it unfair?
To make an unfair dismissal application, the termination of your employment must have been unfair.

Your dismissal will be considered unfair if it was harsh, unjust or unreasonable. The Commission will consider the reasons for your dismissal, and the process followed by your employer when deciding whether a dismissal was harsh, unjust or unreasonable."

I’m not sure being deregistered is the same as being dismissed from employment from a legal perspective. But I’m no lawyer.

 

[gallagher]

That's the word, " intent". **Without it Pascoe was stupid, with it he was dishonest.** Pretty much the same as premeditation is the only difference between murder and manslaughter. I trust Pascoe and think he simply tried to bend the rules rather than break them, and would not have been put in that position had the rules not been so complex and open to interpretation.

Stupid or dishonest. Neither one is the sort of quality you want your CEO to have.

 

[earl]

But we haven't rorted the system. That's one of the key points…!
Rorting implies a process of intentional deception to receive a benefit of some sort. There is no intentional deception, nor is there any benefit received.
What we may have done would more accurately be called an administrative error. For which there may be punishments, but they should be far less severe than those who have intentional rorted the cap.

It sounds like a rort to me. It's small scale but it's still a rort. The club decided that they had to get rid of Robbie as it was a coach vs player situation. They tried to handle the fact that Robbie was going to lose out on TPA's by giving him a deal after his career was over. That sounds exactly like the sort of sneaky trick the rorters don't get busted for but probably do all the time.

I think it was a small scale rort that was used to try and handle a difficult situation. We should cop the punishment and move on.

 

[Plato]

This is why lawyers drive BMW's and I have a Hyandai.

 

[hammertime]

That's the word, " intent". **Without it Pascoe was stupid, with it he was dishonest.** Pretty much the same as premeditation is the only difference between murder and manslaughter. I trust Pascoe and think he simply tried to bend the rules rather than break them, and would not have been put in that position had the rules not been so complex and open to interpretation.

Stupid or dishonest. Neither one is the sort of quality you want your CEO to have.

We have to remember that this was all pretty much happening on Day 1 when he walked in. I seem to remember an interview that he had backing up Robbie before he even walked in the door.

He really didn't get any time to settle into the role and ensure that the proper people/governance/processes were established. He was too busy fighting fires.

I don't think the same mistake would happen today.

 

[prattenparkchild]

I find it interesting a few here have made their minds up on Pascoe. I'd love to know what he has said to the Board. As far as I can go by statements to date by Go for the board and club they're solidly behind Pascoe. Maybe we should refrain from condemning the bloke until we really know the situation and not from the one sided NRL statements and actions. Pascoe has been great for us and should k d not be thrown out without opportunity to publicly respond and defend his thoughts and actions at the time in question. What's the bloke supposed to do when he is barred from having anything to do with the club from the moment Greenberg made his announcement?

 

[Newtown]

Whatever, the penalties issued on Pascoe and Wests Tigers by Greenburg are way, way too harsh.

 

[prattenparkchild]

Whatever, the penalties issued on Pascoe and Wests Tigers by Greenburg are way, way too harsh.

No, if there is intent and deception, he and WT the club he legally represents deserve the punishment. The degree is open to question.

 

[Swordy]

Whatever, the penalties issued on Pascoe and Wests Tigers by Greenburg are way, way too harsh.

I think the deregistration, if warranted, should have been played out behind closed doors. It has been stupid by the NRL to do it publicly (even with show cause period) as it has damaged Pascoes reputation. If he is anything but 100% guilty as charged, I would think the NRL are in for a world of hurt,

 

[JD Tiger]

Whatever, the penalties issued on Pascoe and Wests Tigers by Greenburg are way, way too harsh.

No, if there is intent and deception, he and WT the club he legally represents deserve the punishment. The degree is open to question.

Disagree, comparing this to the Sharks matter which came down at the same time, we were treated way too harsh. It was a also political decision in the fact that it came down right before they went on leave for Christmas so no chance to immediately address it, and the bad name we got upon us (even if we appeal) will stick as too much time has passed.

Even if we are guilty of doing a dodgy act and deliberately cheating the cap, we have not been given a fair go at all. NRL has already publicly labelled us as deliberate cheats, before we had any opportunity to defend ourselves.

Penalty was way too harsh, unfairly dished out, and the NRL undertook their actions with a deliberate bias and within a political agenda based as far from fairness as you can get.

I truly hope we take the matter to court so some more information can come out

 

[prattenparkchild]

I too am saying we should say to NRL see you in court and give them the finger as to their impartiality and fairness. Not even attempt to go to their arbitration first unless we are guilty, by accepting their arbitration, we are accepting the guilt which at this stage I am not sure we are guilty of anything.

 

[cktiger]

I'd like to see the Tigers demand a thorough report, including emails, phone messages and TPA's on **every club** for the last 10 years. Greenberg would then have to sit out his job as boss of the NRL while it was on so there was no bias shown to the Bulldogs.