Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[southerntiger]

Rubbish. They choose not to do it to avoid any criticism. It has nothing to do with resources.

Both sides do it. Opposition strategy is always about being a small target.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[hammertime]

Rubbish. They choose not to do it to avoid any criticism. It has nothing to do with resources.

Both sides do it. Opposition strategy is always about being a small target.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Well there is that too, but its definitely not rubbish.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Rubbish. They choose not to do it to avoid any criticism. It has nothing to do with resources.

Both sides do it. Opposition strategy is always about being a small target.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Well there is that too, but its definitely not rubbish.

Southern is correct, they have access to the same resources as the Gov, but choose not to use them. Most probably because the last time that they did, their numbers were way out.

You may also remember that their figures were supposedly given the tick of approval by a large and reputable firm, that is now out of business I believe, but still the subject of regulatory investigation.

 

[MAFIA]

Cannot believe there is 160 pages of this shit …..... Yep that's right shit

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[wtigers]

Cannot believe there is 160 pages of this shit …..... Yep that's right shit

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ah yes, because discussing the people who will run our country is s***…

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Tim Sheens]

I genuinely fear for the poorest and marginal groups that will have the boot put into them again by the rich behind the scenes policy makers and their coalition representatives, for a number of years from next week.

The only decision that really disappointed me from the hung parliament that is just about to end, was the decision to place un/under employed single mothers onto the Newstart allowance. An horrific response to need to find budget savings and a real black mark for the Labour Party in my view.

 

[Flippedy]

I don't pretend to understand a lot about politics and policies. In fact, I'm quite naive, so I just want to ask people on here, who do know something about politics, why it is that they dislike the Greens so much?

Tonight I was sent a list of 10 reasons to vote for the Greens by a friend and after checking it out, I can't see what it is that makes them so unpopular with the Australian public. I mean, there is nothing on the list that I disagree with, in principle, and they certainly appear to have a fair bit of compassion for people and the world around them underpinning their political stance. So what is it? Are they too idealistic? Too naive? Too much focus on the environment and gay issues and not enough on 'the almighty economy' or just too over the top?

Anyway, the list is below - check it out and tell me what you think cause I'm just curious.

**Our Top 10 Reasons To Vote Green - Tomorrow!**

1\. Support and care for people. The Greens believe in making life easier for single parents and people who find themselves out of work at the time that they most need support. The two old parties have cut vital support from programs that give families assistance when they need it most.

2\. Stop Tony Abbott getting control of both houses of Parliament. If he gets it, he could unwind everything we have worked so hard to achieve. Our price on pollution was hard won. Abbott is threatening to slash action on global warming, education funding, support for the vulnerable and more. We need a strong Greens voice in Parliament to ensure that building a sustainable future remains at the centre of everything we do.

3\. A fair go for refugees. The Greens reject the cruel race to the bottom from the old parties and will always treat vulnerable people seeking our protection with compassion. We will work towards a real regional solution that provides safer pathways for asylum seekers and stops deaths at sea.

4\. Action on global warming. The Greens are the only party with a plan to cut the pollution that is fuelling dangerous global warming and build a 100% clean energy economy. We secured more than $10 billion in clean energy investment, a price on pollution and much more in this Parliament. We understand the urgency of the challenge and will work every day for stronger action.

5\. Dental care as a part of Medicare. Thanks to the Greens, 3.4 million Australian children will access the dental care they need for free. It's the first part of the Greens’ comprehensive plan to invest in public health care to make it easier for all Australians to access.

6\. Responsibility. A full suite of transparently, independently costed policies that the Guardian said 'should be the benchmark by which all parties in future elections are judged'.

7\. Nothing less than full equality for LGBTI people. Every time. Every Green MP. With every vote. For marriage equality to celebrate equal love. For genuine equality laws, to stop religious schools, hospitals and shelters from turning LGBTI Australians away or firing them because of who they are.

8\. Leadership with integrity. Christine Milne has a long history of standing up for what matters. She spearheaded gay law reform in Tasmania in the 1980s where homosexuality carried a 21 year prison sentence. She was instrumental in introducing gun law reform in Tasmania, which lead to national law reform and she has been at the forefront of securing legislation to tackle global warming. That’s 30 years of leadership.

9\. Education. From early childhood, through schools to university and TAFE, education provides the foundation for a smarter and fairer future for Australia. The Greens want to invest more in education to give every Australian the opportunities they deserve instead of the old parties’ funding cuts and privatisations.

10\. Standing up for our environment. Our native animals and environment are too precious to lose. The Greens are the only party with the courage to stand up to big mining companies and vested interests to protect our national treasures like the Great Barrier Reef, the Tarkine, James Price Point and the Leadbeater’s Possum.

​This Saturday we won’t only decide who is our Prime Minister for the next three years, we will decide on the Parliament that holds him to account.

 

[dazza65]

I don't pretend to understand a lot about politics and policies. In fact, I'm quite naive, so I just want to ask people on here, who do know something about politics, why it is that they dislike the Greens so much?

Tonight I was sent a list of 10 reasons to vote for the Greens by a friend and after checking it out, I can't see what it is that makes them so unpopular with the Australian public. I mean, there is nothing on the list that I disagree with, in principle, and they certainly appear to have a fair bit of compassion for people and the world around them underpinning their political stance. So what is it? Are they too idealistic? Too naive? Too much focus on the environment and gay issues and not enough on 'the almighty economy' or just too over the top?

Anyway, the list is below - check it out and tell me what you think cause I'm just curious.

**Our Top 10 Reasons To Vote Green - Tomorrow!**

1\. Support and care for people. The Greens believe in making life easier for single parents and people who find themselves out of work at the time that they most need support. The two old parties have cut vital support from programs that give families assistance when they need it most.

2\. Stop Tony Abbott getting control of both houses of Parliament. If he gets it, he could unwind everything we have worked so hard to achieve. Our price on pollution was hard won. Abbott is threatening to slash action on global warming, education funding, support for the vulnerable and more. We need a strong Greens voice in Parliament to ensure that building a sustainable future remains at the centre of everything we do.

3\. A fair go for refugees. The Greens reject the cruel race to the bottom from the old parties and will always treat vulnerable people seeking our protection with compassion. We will work towards a real regional solution that provides safer pathways for asylum seekers and stops deaths at sea.

4\. Action on global warming. The Greens are the only party with a plan to cut the pollution that is fuelling dangerous global warming and build a 100% clean energy economy. We secured more than $10 billion in clean energy investment, a price on pollution and much more in this Parliament. We understand the urgency of the challenge and will work every day for stronger action.

5\. Dental care as a part of Medicare. Thanks to the Greens, 3.4 million Australian children will access the dental care they need for free. It's the first part of the Greens’ comprehensive plan to invest in public health care to make it easier for all Australians to access.

6\. Responsibility. A full suite of transparently, independently costed policies that the Guardian said 'should be the benchmark by which all parties in future elections are judged'.

7\. Nothing less than full equality for LGBTI people. Every time. Every Green MP. With every vote. For marriage equality to celebrate equal love. For genuine equality laws, to stop religious schools, hospitals and shelters from turning LGBTI Australians away or firing them because of who they are.

8\. Leadership with integrity. Christine Milne has a long history of standing up for what matters. She spearheaded gay law reform in Tasmania in the 1980s where homosexuality carried a 21 year prison sentence. She was instrumental in introducing gun law reform in Tasmania, which lead to national law reform and she has been at the forefront of securing legislation to tackle global warming. That’s 30 years of leadership.

9\. Education. From early childhood, through schools to university and TAFE, education provides the foundation for a smarter and fairer future for Australia. The Greens want to invest more in education to give every Australian the opportunities they deserve instead of the old parties’ funding cuts and privatisations.

10\. Standing up for our environment. Our native animals and environment are too precious to lose. The Greens are the only party with the courage to stand up to big mining companies and vested interests to protect our national treasures like the Great Barrier Reef, the Tarkine, James Price Point and the Leadbeater’s Possum.

​This Saturday we won’t only decide who is our Prime Minister for the next three years, we will decide on the Parliament that holds him to account.

Yep, and we can all live in Disneyland as well. Great ideas (maybe) on paper but not achievable as a great majority of those initiatives would require significant investment ie taxation in some way. Who wants to up their tax rates - hands up!
The greens are the modern version of Don Chipp and the Democrats - the best they can hope for is to "keep the bastards honest " as their last line states.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Tim Sheens]

I think we need the Greens in there to "keep the bastards honest". The demise of the Democrats following their decision to support the coalition in passing the GST legislation through the upper house (most probably because a supposed mandate was being trumpeted despite losing a bunch of seats and losing 48/52 in preferential votes at election) shows that a minor party must be careful in its decisions.

However, I don't think the party has been realistic at times when they needed to concede some ground to get constructive policy passed. The political climate would be totally different had they swallowed a little pride about 5 years ago and passed an emissions trading scheme (I prefer a government scheme personally, that is called a POLLUTION and not carbon tax/levy, as many don't comprehend it's meaning).

Basically, I hope that their position to negotiate changes to proposed legislation remains, but they need to give some ground, particularly now that Bob Brown has gone.

 

[wtigers]

I don't pretend to understand a lot about politics and policies. In fact, I'm quite naive, so I just want to ask people on here, who do know something about politics, why it is that they dislike the Greens so much?

Tonight I was sent a list of 10 reasons to vote for the Greens by a friend and after checking it out, I can't see what it is that makes them so unpopular with the Australian public. I mean, there is nothing on the list that I disagree with, in principle, and they certainly appear to have a fair bit of compassion for people and the world around them underpinning their political stance. So what is it? Are they too idealistic? Too naive? Too much focus on the environment and gay issues and not enough on 'the almighty economy' or just too over the top?

Anyway, the list is below - check it out and tell me what you think cause I'm just curious.

**Our Top 10 Reasons To Vote Green - Tomorrow!**

1\. Support and care for people. The Greens believe in making life easier for single parents and people who find themselves out of work at the time that they most need support. The two old parties have cut vital support from programs that give families assistance when they need it most.

2\. Stop Tony Abbott getting control of both houses of Parliament. If he gets it, he could unwind everything we have worked so hard to achieve. Our price on pollution was hard won. Abbott is threatening to slash action on global warming, education funding, support for the vulnerable and more. We need a strong Greens voice in Parliament to ensure that building a sustainable future remains at the centre of everything we do.

3\. A fair go for refugees. The Greens reject the cruel race to the bottom from the old parties and will always treat vulnerable people seeking our protection with compassion. We will work towards a real regional solution that provides safer pathways for asylum seekers and stops deaths at sea.

4\. Action on global warming. The Greens are the only party with a plan to cut the pollution that is fuelling dangerous global warming and build a 100% clean energy economy. We secured more than $10 billion in clean energy investment, a price on pollution and much more in this Parliament. We understand the urgency of the challenge and will work every day for stronger action.

5\. Dental care as a part of Medicare. Thanks to the Greens, 3.4 million Australian children will access the dental care they need for free. It's the first part of the Greens’ comprehensive plan to invest in public health care to make it easier for all Australians to access.

6\. Responsibility. A full suite of transparently, independently costed policies that the Guardian said 'should be the benchmark by which all parties in future elections are judged'.

7\. Nothing less than full equality for LGBTI people. Every time. Every Green MP. With every vote. For marriage equality to celebrate equal love. For genuine equality laws, to stop religious schools, hospitals and shelters from turning LGBTI Australians away or firing them because of who they are.

8\. Leadership with integrity. Christine Milne has a long history of standing up for what matters. She spearheaded gay law reform in Tasmania in the 1980s where homosexuality carried a 21 year prison sentence. She was instrumental in introducing gun law reform in Tasmania, which lead to national law reform and she has been at the forefront of securing legislation to tackle global warming. That’s 30 years of leadership.

9\. Education. From early childhood, through schools to university and TAFE, education provides the foundation for a smarter and fairer future for Australia. The Greens want to invest more in education to give every Australian the opportunities they deserve instead of the old parties’ funding cuts and privatisations.

10\. Standing up for our environment. Our native animals and environment are too precious to lose. The Greens are the only party with the courage to stand up to big mining companies and vested interests to protect our national treasures like the Great Barrier Reef, the Tarkine, James Price Point and the Leadbeater’s Possum.

​This Saturday we won’t only decide who is our Prime Minister for the next three years, we will decide on the Parliament that holds him to account.

I often ask myself the same question, but I find its for two main reasons.
1\. Their ideas would involve more taxes. Which people don't like. Although, I feel that upping the tax rate would be a fine & normal thing if it meant a more positive and sustainable Australian future (which it almost certainly would)
2\. They don't really have policies. Because they're never gonna get any significant amount of seats, they can get away with putting forward ideas without having to follow up with policies. It's all very well saying 'we should treat these people with respect!' But they're never in a position to actually try and enact that in real life, so they exist more as a group to put ideas on the table, and make their voices heard without having to answer any questions & this annoys a lot of people.
I personally don't mind them. They have good ideas, but they need stronger policies if they're ever gonna be a major force in Australian politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[TurnStyle]

Cannot believe there is 160 pages of this s*** …..... Yep that's right s***

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

ive actually really enjoyed this thread. there are good intelligent posts here made by good intelligent people. and me too.

 

[Saturnalia]

I also don't think that people with anger management issues should be posting on Internet forums either… But looks like I can't stop that.

I understand how it's funded. Back in the day, I used to work on the federal budget, so I do know just a little bit of stuff... But also, if you think the rates of return are realistic given the current rollout stats, you too need a lesson in how it's eventually going to be funded.

But kudos, that is the best list I have seen anyone produce. Now tell me, how are any of those not possible through the liberal network, albeit a bit slower? Or are not already happening? Negating those, the remainder of time difference and gdp production lost is what we need to quantify.

Oh wait, we haven't done any proper cost benefit analysis yet right?

Back in the right now, I work in the IT industry and I know about the frustrations of businesses and customers regarding the internet both in terms of speed and capacity.

The Liberal network has 1 tiny fundamental flaw,
it requires a new technology to be invented to produce the speeds they claim they can get over copper.

It's all about the upload speeds, which you'll notice the liberals haven't even mentioned once. Why? because they can't achieve it. It's the nature of the way that ADSL was designed, your upload will be severely limited.

So you're doctor waiting 2-3 hours to get that high resolution x-ray you took at your local clinic instead of 10-12 minutes Uni students will still be driving to uni increasing congestion on the roads because the capacity to stream hd lecture where they can see everything on the slides.is choppy and inconsistent
I have to drive to work to use my offices slightly faster internet because the 300MB+ files I work on will take too long to upload from home,

2-3 hours/day waiting for stuff to download/upload/sync/update takes a big chunk out of your productivity during the day.

Also , Infrastructure that will last for the next 50-60 years isn't something you should be trying to 'save' money on .

Besides we're going to get it eventually. NZ stopped their FTTN rollout because the speeds were unrealistic and inconsistent and they've moved to FTTP,. (Hence Malcom' I invented the Internet' Turnbull) has stopped talking about them.

let's not even get into the fact that under the liberal plan they'll have to negotiate with Telstra to use their shitty copper, so you're looking at spending at least $10-$14bn to purchase the copper alone,

$800m less for a network that will be obsolete before it's finished, won't address any of the problems we face now , be 100x slower, and will have to be upgraded anyway.

oh and just for good measure

http://abbottsinternet.com.au/

 

[southerntiger]

Yep one of the most shortsighted terrible policies in the last 20 years if government in this country. If it saved money I could live with it but given we going to have to upgrade eventually it simply makes no sense.

Oh well. Thats what we are going to get.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Winnipeg]

All for the sake of having a policy just to be able to say 'no' to Labor and try to highlight their supposed waste

It wouldn't surprise me if this was one of the first policies on the scrap heap post-election anyhow

 

[diedpretty]

I also don't think that people with anger management issues should be posting on Internet forums either… But looks like I can't stop that.

I understand how it's funded. Back in the day, I used to work on the federal budget, so I do know just a little bit of stuff... But also, if you think the rates of return are realistic given the current rollout stats, you too need a lesson in how it's eventually going to be funded.

But kudos, that is the best list I have seen anyone produce. Now tell me, how are any of those not possible through the liberal network, albeit a bit slower? Or are not already happening? Negating those, the remainder of time difference and gdp production lost is what we need to quantify.

Oh wait, we haven't done any proper cost benefit analysis yet right?

Back in the right now, I work in the IT industry and I know about the frustrations of businesses and customers regarding the internet both in terms of speed and capacity.

The Liberal network has 1 tiny fundamental flaw,
it requires a new technology to be invented to produce the speeds they claim they can get over copper.

It's all about the upload speeds, which you'll notice the liberals haven't even mentioned once. Why? because they can't achieve it. It's the nature of the way that ADSL was designed, your upload will be severely limited.

So you're doctor waiting 2-3 hours to get that high resolution x-ray you took at your local clinic instead of 10-12 minutes Uni students will still be driving to uni increasing congestion on the roads because the capacity to stream hd lecture where they can see everything on the slides.is choppy and inconsistent
I have to drive to work to use my offices slightly faster internet because the 300MB+ files I work on will take too long to upload from home,

2-3 hours/day waiting for stuff to download/upload/sync/update takes a big chunk out of your productivity during the day.

Also , Infrastructure that will last for the next 50-60 years isn't something you should be trying to 'save' money on .

Besides we're going to get it eventually. NZ stopped their FTTN rollout because the speeds were unrealistic and inconsistent and they've moved to FTTP,. (Hence Malcom' I invented the Internet' Turnbull) has stopped talking about them.

let's not even get into the fact that under the liberal plan they'll have to negotiate with Telstra to use their s*** copper, so you're looking at spending at least $10-$14bn to purchase the copper alone,

$800m less for a network that will be obsolete before it's finished, won't address any of the problems we face now , be 100x slower, and will have to be upgraded anyway.

oh and just for good measure

http://abbottsinternet.com.au/

The problem with the coalition policy to dump the NBN is that the rollout has already occurred in a number of ares throughout the country. So we will have a case of the haves and have nots. Port Macquarie doesn't have it and Coffs Harbour does - this is a huge advantage to Coffs in establishing itself as the major economics centre of the MNC - I can see these problems happening throughout the country.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I don't pretend to understand a lot about politics and policies. In fact, I'm quite naive, so I just want to ask people on here, who do know something about politics, why it is that they dislike the Greens so much?

Tonight I was sent a list of 10 reasons to vote for the Greens by a friend and after checking it out, I can't see what it is that makes them so unpopular with the Australian public. I mean, there is nothing on the list that I disagree with, in principle, and they certainly appear to have a fair bit of compassion for people and the world around them underpinning their political stance. So what is it? Are they too idealistic? Too naive? Too much focus on the environment and gay issues and not enough on 'the almighty economy' or just too over the top?

Anyway, the list is below - check it out and tell me what you think cause I'm just curious.

**Our Top 10 Reasons To Vote Green - Tomorrow!**

1\. Support and care for people. The Greens believe in making life easier for single parents and people who find themselves out of work at the time that they most need support. The two old parties have cut vital support from programs that give families assistance when they need it most.

2\. Stop Tony Abbott getting control of both houses of Parliament. If he gets it, he could unwind everything we have worked so hard to achieve. Our price on pollution was hard won. Abbott is threatening to slash action on global warming, education funding, support for the vulnerable and more. We need a strong Greens voice in Parliament to ensure that building a sustainable future remains at the centre of everything we do.

3\. A fair go for refugees. The Greens reject the cruel race to the bottom from the old parties and will always treat vulnerable people seeking our protection with compassion. We will work towards a real regional solution that provides safer pathways for asylum seekers and stops deaths at sea.

4\. Action on global warming. The Greens are the only party with a plan to cut the pollution that is fuelling dangerous global warming and build a 100% clean energy economy. We secured more than $10 billion in clean energy investment, a price on pollution and much more in this Parliament. We understand the urgency of the challenge and will work every day for stronger action.

5\. Dental care as a part of Medicare. Thanks to the Greens, 3.4 million Australian children will access the dental care they need for free. It's the first part of the Greens’ comprehensive plan to invest in public health care to make it easier for all Australians to access.

6\. Responsibility. A full suite of transparently, independently costed policies that the Guardian said 'should be the benchmark by which all parties in future elections are judged'.

7\. Nothing less than full equality for LGBTI people. Every time. Every Green MP. With every vote. For marriage equality to celebrate equal love. For genuine equality laws, to stop religious schools, hospitals and shelters from turning LGBTI Australians away or firing them because of who they are.

8\. Leadership with integrity. Christine Milne has a long history of standing up for what matters. She spearheaded gay law reform in Tasmania in the 1980s where homosexuality carried a 21 year prison sentence. She was instrumental in introducing gun law reform in Tasmania, which lead to national law reform and she has been at the forefront of securing legislation to tackle global warming. That’s 30 years of leadership.

9\. Education. From early childhood, through schools to university and TAFE, education provides the foundation for a smarter and fairer future for Australia. The Greens want to invest more in education to give every Australian the opportunities they deserve instead of the old parties’ funding cuts and privatisations.

10\. Standing up for our environment. Our native animals and environment are too precious to lose. The Greens are the only party with the courage to stand up to big mining companies and vested interests to protect our national treasures like the Great Barrier Reef, the Tarkine, James Price Point and the Leadbeater’s Possum.

​This Saturday we won’t only decide who is our Prime Minister for the next three years, we will decide on the Parliament that holds him to account.

I'm expecting the Greens to get touched up more than Labor…

Seriously, how could anyone in this country vote 'green' when they are preferencing the Coal Miner in Queensland???

Surely there is no creditability left for this plum sucking Milne!

 

[system]

I still rue the implosion of the Australian Democrats.

Greens are a nothing party with no real policies for governance

 

[Saturnalia]

The problem with the coalition policy to dump the NBN is that the rollout has already occurred in a number of ares throughout the country. So we will have a case of the haves and have nots. Port Macquarie doesn't have it and Coffs Harbour does - this is a huge advantage to Coffs in establishing itself as the major economics centre of the MNC - I can see these problems happening throughout the country.

Worse than that, you'll start seeing homes advertised as 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, FTTP

people will pay more for an nbn connected property, which is great if you've got it, live in the 'wrong' part of a suburb and you're property will be worth less than one at the end of the street with FTTP.

 

[crusader]

The problem with the coalition policy to dump the NBN is that the rollout has already occurred in a number of ares throughout the country. So we will have a case of the haves and have nots. Port Macquarie doesn't have it and Coffs Harbour does - this is a huge advantage to Coffs in establishing itself as the major economics centre of the MNC - I can see these problems happening throughout the country.

Worse than that, you'll start seeing homes advertised as 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, FTTP

people will pay more for an nbn connected property, which is great if you've got it, live in the 'wrong' part of a suburb and you're property will be worth less than one at the end of the street with FTTP.

That's garbage.
The technology is moving so quick NBN is already obsolete

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Saturnalia]

The problem with the coalition policy to dump the NBN is that the rollout has already occurred in a number of ares throughout the country. So we will have a case of the haves and have nots. Port Macquarie doesn't have it and Coffs Harbour does - this is a huge advantage to Coffs in establishing itself as the major economics centre of the MNC - I can see these problems happening throughout the country.

Worse than that, you'll start seeing homes advertised as 1 bedroom, 1 bathroom, FTTP

people will pay more for an nbn connected property, which is great if you've got it, live in the 'wrong' part of a suburb and you're property will be worth less than one at the end of the street with FTTP.

That's garbage.
The technology is moving so quick NBN is already obsolete

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Obvious Troll is obvious

You've found something that travels faster than light?