Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Geo]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/broncos-re-sign-exciting-young-gun/ar-BB1cWXtU?ocid=ientphttps://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/broncos-re-sign-exciting-young-gun/ar-BB1cWXtU?ocid=ientp

Is this Political or something..?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , this a day to celebrate them as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .

 

[mike]

3.3% of the population.

 

[cochise]

3.3% of the population.

So?

 

[mike]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

 

[cochise]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

 

[mike]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

What’s the end game? Can we just put it all on the table and just go straight there.

 

[Tiger5150]

So lets not celebrate anything because a minority in many areas don't feel its a celebration for them. GIVE ME A BREAK

Yeah so lets exclude them from our National Celebration.

No ones excluding them .. they have a choice .

The date excludes some indigenous people from celebrating as they don't view it as a day to celebrate. Regardless of that in my opinion we are celebrating the wrong day anyway, we are celebrating our national day on the day the first fleet arrived to set up a penal colony. Why don't we celebrate the day we actually became Australia?

Because its New Years Day and we already have a holiday on that day and 50% of the country would be hung over for our national celebration.

So its the public holiday you want?


Not particularly, but it would be pretty quickly swallowed up in a post NYE haze, wouldnt really give the day what it deserves.

I dont actually celebrate or denounce Aus day on 26 Jan, but obviously many do on both sides. It WAS an incredible achievement for the first fleet to get here and eek out an existence which ultimately flourished into the great country we have today. That is not to "whitewash" (word chosen intentionally) aboriginal history. There was no "genocide" or even violence between the first fleet and the local indigenous on this day and there is a lot of historical documents supporting the efforts for peace between the two. AGAIN this is not to avoid the fact of the atrocities to come.

IMO we should keep it where it is. It is an opportunity to actually reflect on what happened, what it means to the society we have built, what it means to indigenous Australians. Removing it from the calendar foregoes this opportunity but will not erase what has happened for good or bad. The call to move Aus day is some sort of childish admission that we are not mature enough to commemorate this day properly.

To be honest, and I can't believe I am about to say this. The best idea I heard in regards to this debate came from Anthony Mundine a number of years ago. I am not sure if it was his idea or whether he still likes this idea as I have never heard him mention it again.

The idea he said was to break the day up in 2 parts, similar to what we do with ANZAC day, use the morning to commemorate and recognise the loss of culture that indigenous population feels. Then use the afternoon to celebrate what Australia has become. I personally don't mind that idea.


I think that is exactly what the day should be now, but dont see why it needs to be mandated that the morning is for this, the afternoon is for that.

Why the hell cant people just commemorate the day and the country for what it is, what it has been and where we ALL have come from, on their own terms in what ever way they see fit?

Some will commemorate it as "invasion day" (stupid title...wasnt an invasion) or a "day of mourning" as marking the day that Europeans arrived here with the intent of settling, from which great hardship resulted for the indigenous people. Some will commemorate it as the start of an incredible process from First fleeters arriving to a reasonably barren and inhospitable place from which they initially survived and went on to form a great nation. Some people I hope are capable of thinking two things at once and blending these two historic facts together. All three are right and are right to commemorate as they see fit.

Some just see it as a bogan drinking day. I see it as a day to get some work done without distraction.

I have celebrated Australia Day many,many times with people of all cultures and ancestry...I cant for the life of me understand the "invasion day"syndrome...My Aboriginal friends that I played football with in Wagga always came along to the BBQs and never once did they look for sympathy or reparation or even mention that the white man owes them...the sooner some of the younger generation grow up and realise that we are one country only divided by the extreme sympathisers will we ever close that divide ..30 yrs ago all this take a knee,invasion day etc would have been frowned upon,now we have to bow down to it ..unfortunately for them I wont bow down to anyone...

In 1968 Mexico Olyimpic Games the Black Power salute is recognised as a protest for human rights included Australian Peter Norman...it is not bowed down too


Ive always thought the "taking a knee" is a weird gesture of support of black rights. Taking a knee is a submissive gesture and it seems a weird way to show strength. I understand the reference to George Floyds death, but it still seems conflicting.

If thats how they wish to support their brothers and sisters ...who are we to question it

Absolutely, no question. Everyone can express themselves in whatever way they seem fit.

 

[mike]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.

 

[Tiger5150]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .

I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

 

[Tiger5150]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.

Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

 

[cochise]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

The first fleet went to Botany Bay 1st and decided it wasn't a good site to settle.

 

[happy_tiger]

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/broncos-re-sign-exciting-young-gun/ar-BB1cWXtU?ocid=ientphttps://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/broncos-re-sign-exciting-young-gun/ar-BB1cWXtU?ocid=ientp

Is this Political or something..?

Supposed to be a comment Dizzy Gillespie made about Australia Day celebrations .......

Sorry all

 

[Tiger5150]

Giving the Australia Day stuff a miss. Anyone who wants to know my thoughts search my posts a year ago.

On Google, the funniest thing about it all is that if Google choose to censor links they will have to pay for it will push up independent journalists like Michael West, the fella who worked for Whitlam and Fraser (his name escapes me,) and Jordan Shanks who while is a comedian, probably does better investigative journalism of late than most of Australia's mainstream journalists.

These guys getting more access to the public are not an ideal outcome for Murdoch and the LNP.


Im not a fan of that Jordan bloke but note he was recently banned from Twitter

Must have only been a short sabbatical because I have have never noticed his account suspended.

I am generally a fan of his. His shilling for China, while I understand his adoration is about their ability to make things happen and their economic achievements, is a little on the nose when he tries to use that to justify stuff like the goings on in Xinjiang.

Just say your admire their economic prowess and their machinations to make it happen and leave it at that. You don't need to double down and say that camps are OK because everything else is going well for them.

Relistened to the podcast that I was listening to, it was the wrong Jordan....Jordan Hall

 

[happy_tiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

What’s the end game? Can we just put it all on the table and just go straight there.

That is when Thanos gets beaten the Marvel Superheroes

Far better than that Stars Wars garbage

 

[Tim Sheens]

Mmmmm...Lamb..

Pulled pork

Pork Belly

Now this thread is on a topic we can all agree on.

Not to be a turd , but I gotta say , I find pork belly pretty meh . Too much fat .

Gotta choose the right ones, with just enough fat to flavour. Makes for a divine dark Thai soup with boiled eggs.

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

 

[tigger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , this a day to celebrate them as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .

Too true.

January 26. The day the Poms arrived with a bunch of prisoners. Over the years of the penal colony a considerable number of those prisoners were Irish dissidents, transported for disputing the right of the Brits to subjugate their people. Transported to another country where the Brits were already busy subjugating the local people. Yay! Celebrate!

And the national anthem? I can remember when it was God save the queen. It was played in movie theatres before every movie and we were all supposed to stand. And lots of people didn't... for whatever reason they might have had. But they were white Australian people and I don't recall much criticism of them for it.

We can do better than this. We don't actually need to use history to find a day to celebrate our nation. Even if you feel that some people aren't entitled to be offended by 26/1, if they feel offended, then they are. If we're looking forward, pick a date and celebrate. Celebrate what we want our nation to be instead of an historical event.

Pick a date in a month where we're short of public holidays.

 

[happy_tiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

 

[TrueTiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

Bullcrap ,he was unlucky and couldnt wait to get out of the joint....he and his men were sick of the canetoads overwhelming the crew...they started to get fond of them and Cook didnt allow any extra marital activities with the natives...:couple_with_heart:ha ha ha ..