Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[happy_tiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

Bullcrap ,he was unlucky and couldnt wait to get out of the joint....he and his men were sick of the canetoads overwhelming the crew...they started to get fond of them and Cook didnt allow any extra marital activities with the natives...:couple_with_heart:

Do you mean those Canetoads that weren't brought to Qld for another 130 years .....those ones

We brought them in just before Rugby League was invented ...we knew ..they'll be here a while and will migrate south once they have tasted our 4 irons and 7 irons .....no doubt you hippies have turned them into a protected species

 

[happy_tiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

Bullcrap ,he was unlucky and couldnt wait to get out of the joint....he and his men were sick of the canetoads overwhelming the crew...they started to get fond of them and Cook didnt allow any extra marital activities with the natives...:couple_with_heart:ha ha ha ..

By the way ...if you hit a cane toad with a 7 iron you close the face of the club .....the poison doesn't end up in your face then

 

[cochise]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

 

[cochise]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , this a day to celebrate them as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .

Too true.

January 26. The day the Poms arrived with a bunch of prisoners. Over the years of the penal colony a considerable number of those prisoners were Irish dissidents, transported for disputing the right of the Brits to subjugate their people. Transported to another country where the Brits were already busy subjugating the local people. Yay! Celebrate!

And the national anthem? I can remember when it was God save the queen. It was played in movie theatres before every movie and we were all supposed to stand. And lots of people didn't... for whatever reason they might have had. But they were white Australian people and I don't recall much criticism of them for it.

We can do better than this. We don't actually need to use history to find a day to celebrate our nation. Even if you feel that some people aren't entitled to be offended by 26/1, if they feel offended, then they are. If we're looking forward, pick a date and celebrate. Celebrate what we want our nation to be instead of an historical event.

Pick a date in a month where we're short of public holidays.

Great post.

 

[cochise]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

Bullcrap ,he was unlucky and couldnt wait to get out of the joint....he and his men were sick of the canetoads overwhelming the crew...they started to get fond of them and Cook didnt allow any extra marital activities with the natives...:couple_with_heart:

Do you mean those Canetoads that weren't brought to Qld for another 130 years .....those ones

We brought them in just before Rugby League was invented ...we knew ..they'll be here a while and will migrate south once they have tasted our 4 irons and 7 irons .....no doubt you hippies have turned them into a protected species

lol

 

[Tiger5150]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

One of my pet hates in the world is virtue signalling. I have a "facebook friend" who has just returned to Australia after living abroad for many years and she literally just bought and moved into a gorgeous $7M property on the water on the Central Coast and bought a multi million dollar business on the coast in a field they have zero experience in. Seemingly oblivious to the irony, she changed her Facebook profile pic to state Jan 26 Day of mourning - ***Sovereignty was never ceded!***

I think in almost every political discussion, here and elsewhere, US and Aus politics, an important point that is always missed is that there has never been a better, more equal, safer, healthier time to live for ALL people, black, white, brindle, straight, gay, trans, male, female. The greatest day EVER to live in humanity, is tomorrow.

That does not mean however that all things are equal, or that there isnt a lot that can and should be done for a raft of minorities, not the least of which are our original australians. You state *"We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned…so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them?"*. Of course you or I havent personally done anything to aboriginal people but that doesnt mean that they play the game from the same standing as the rest of us.

The stolen generation technically ended 1969 but when I went to school in late 70's/80's, I went to school with the kids from Marella Mission. This is less than 2 generations ago and there is no way that these kids, or entire generations have the same basis to get along in this world with regards culture, capital, education. IMO (I dont know you) none of us are self made, we stand on the shoulders of giants, usually our parents or family who provide these things.

Whilst it is possible to discuss/argue/consider the situation of aboriginal australians intellectually and argue that they "have been given everything they need" or they are "victims of white patriachy" (I dont believe either of these things), IMO no political intellectual consideration of indigenous Australians matters. For me the annual "Closing the Gap Report" that baselines the difference between indigenous and other Australians is the thing that matters and for some reason this gap is stubbonly refusing to budge regardless of Lib or Labor government or the amount of $$$ thrown at it. If I was Scomo, I would be creating a department to get to the bottom of why this never changes.

Politically I am a massive believer in Equality of Opportunity and a massive opponent of Equality of Outcome. I believe very strongly in a robust meritocracy but I can see clearly (and the Closing the Gap Report documents it) that many indigenous people simply do not have this equality of opportunity and IMO that is what needs to be fixed.

 

[mike]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , this a day to celebrate them as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .

Too true.

January 26. The day the Poms arrived with a bunch of prisoners. Over the years of the penal colony a considerable number of those prisoners were Irish dissidents, transported for disputing the right of the Brits to subjugate their people. Transported to another country where the Brits were already busy subjugating the local people. Yay! Celebrate!

And the national anthem? I can remember when it was God save the queen. It was played in movie theatres before every movie and we were all supposed to stand. And lots of people didn't... for whatever reason they might have had. But they were white Australian people and I don't recall much criticism of them for it.

We can do better than this. We don't actually need to use history to find a day to celebrate our nation. Even if you feel that some people aren't entitled to be offended by 26/1, if they feel offended, then they are. If we're looking forward, pick a date and celebrate. Celebrate what we want our nation to be instead of an historical event.

Pick a date in a month where we're short of public holidays.

So there’s no more problems let’s just give Australia back to the 1st Nation’s Peoples. They can own and govern Australia. After all they did before the British arrived in 1788.

 

[happy_tiger]

3.3% of the population.

So?

Just saying

Until the 26th of Jan 1788 it was 100%

Actually it was the 20th when they arrived in Botany Bay from memory. The 26th is an arbitrary date selected for Australia Day sometime in the 1930s.


Wasnt it Cook that landed at Botany Bay and the First Fleet got off at Campbells Cove?

Cook loved Qld ...ran into a reef on purpose just so he could stay longer

Bullcrap ,he was unlucky and couldnt wait to get out of the joint....he and his men were sick of the canetoads overwhelming the crew...they started to get fond of them and Cook didnt allow any extra marital activities with the natives...:couple_with_heart:

Do you mean those Canetoads that weren't brought to Qld for another 130 years .....those ones

We brought them in just before Rugby League was invented ...we knew ..they'll be here a while and will migrate south once they have tasted our 4 irons and 7 irons .....no doubt you hippies have turned them into a protected species

lol

Just looked it up ..it was actually the 1930's

And the wikipaedia about cane Toads was interesting

I didn't realize how many species in under a 100 years have found ways of killing cane toads

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

 

[cochise]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

 

[Tiger5150]

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

not personally having a go at you Cochise here, but the incarceration argument with regards inequality for indigenous people is the most spurious argument and IMO sells indigenous people short.

Indigenous people ARE incarcerated per capita more than most on earth, but why?

Possibilities include racist police, profiling based on previous crimes, or that indigenous people commit crimes at higher rates per capita. The truth will be a little of A, some of B and a dash of C. All of these things contribute. Indigenous Aussie do commit crimes at a higher rate than non indigenous but that is not because they are indigenous. It is a factor of MANY things including cultural, societal, financial, racial and yes historical injustices.

Simply saying they are more likely to be incarcerated is misleading and IMO actually glosses over much bigger, more important and ultimately more solvable systemic problems.

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

 

[cochise]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

 

[innsaneink]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

Naaahh, you'd probably get a bond or probation while the blackfella gets time

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

Naaahh, you'd probably get a bond or probation while the blackfella gets time

Well thats the judicial systems fault and hasnt treated the issue equally...thats probably wherein lies the problem...

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

I think to break the cycle,education and equality for all is a good start...I did say I didnt want an argument and it hasnt been,its been a great discussion..however our indigenous people must realise that we are one nation and we are solid in our committment to our country..dont take this the wrong way ,but if they want to better themselves then they will have to have the want....it really is up to them to make a better life for now and the future,rehashing what crimes were done against them 200 yrs ago doesnt cut it in my books we all have been given a chance to do better for ourselves,lets face it we are one of the greatest countries in the world and our forefathers had many a battle to get us to where we are now...its really up to all of us to find a good solution to our problems rather than keep digging up the past and festering problems that should have been solved many years ago...

 

[mike]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

I think to break the cycle,education and equality for all is a good start...I did say I didnt want an argument and it hasnt been,its been a great discussion..however our indigenous people must realise that we are one nation and we are solid in our committment to our country..dont take this the wrong way ,but if they want to better themselves then they will have to have the want....it really is up to them to make a better life for now and the future,rehashing what crimes were done against them 200 yrs ago doesnt cut it in my books we all have been given a chance to do better for ourselves,lets face it we are one of the greatest countries in the world and our forefathers had many a battle to get us to where we are now...its really up to all of us to find a good solution to our problems rather than keep digging up the past and festering problems that should have been solved many years ago...

Nah, not one country. There are the 1st Nations People and then there are the Invaders.

 

[cochise]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

I think to break the cycle,education and equality for all is a good start...I did say I didnt want an argument and it hasnt been,its been a great discussion..however our indigenous people must realise that we are one nation and we are solid in our committment to our country..dont take this the wrong way ,but if they want to better themselves then they will have to have the want....it really is up to them to make a better life for now and the future,rehashing what crimes were done against them 200 yrs ago doesnt cut it in my books we all have been given a chance to do better for ourselves,lets face it we are one of the greatest countries in the world and our forefathers had many a battle to get us to where we are now...its really up to all of us to find a good solution to our problems rather than keep digging up the past and festering problems that should have been solved many years ago...

Nah, not one country. There are the 1st Nations People and then there are the Invaders.

I really don't think there re too many people that think like that.

 

[mike]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

I think to break the cycle,education and equality for all is a good start...I did say I didnt want an argument and it hasnt been,its been a great discussion..however our indigenous people must realise that we are one nation and we are solid in our committment to our country..dont take this the wrong way ,but if they want to better themselves then they will have to have the want....it really is up to them to make a better life for now and the future,rehashing what crimes were done against them 200 yrs ago doesnt cut it in my books we all have been given a chance to do better for ourselves,lets face it we are one of the greatest countries in the world and our forefathers had many a battle to get us to where we are now...its really up to all of us to find a good solution to our problems rather than keep digging up the past and festering problems that should have been solved many years ago...

Nah, not one country. There are the 1st Nations People and then there are the Invaders.

I really don't think there re too many people that think like that.

You’d hope not wouldn’t you. Unfortunately I think there is quite a few outspoken who do.

 

[TrueTiger]

The issue is , I think is that , we’ve somehow made people who want to celebrate being Australian alienated . Whilst also never really including the original owners of the land .
There has to be a happy median, because loving this country is ok . Because to those people , including me , this country is a lot more than a bunch of poms coming over a couple hundred years ago , to mess stuff up and create a slave colony . I think the fact we’ve transcended this start , is the point . It was never meant to be anything and we’ve turned it into something amazing .
But we also need to include the indigenous to make them feel like as crap as the past is , ***this a day to celebrate them*** as much as anyone else .
We have to get everyone to realise , these fundamental truths , and stop making everyone feel like they have to choose a side .


I agree with most of this except the highlighted. I want to keep the date because as I said earlier, history shouldnt be erased and there IS much to celebrate from our UK beginnings and where we have gotten to from such humble beginnings but the impact on the indigenous needs to be acknowledged and incorporated in the day. Where I differ with your post is that Jan 26 isnt the day to *celebrate* indigenous because it holds the painful connotation. There should be a separate date to celebrate indigenous culture, maybe NAIDOC week should be elevated.

Totally enjoy reading your posts 5150,but my main concern and arguments are that although many say that the indigenous population were hard done by,and history has proven lots,over the many,many years of negotiations and settlements we have become closer to our indigenous brothers and sisters than the much earlier years gone by...
We have given them education,finance,homes ,restored their tribal lands and named many areas as their land that they owned....so how can I honestly say that in my generation that I have done wrong by them and I should take a knee in aggreance with the agenda that a minority cant let go of the past..as far as Im concerned we have done well to make this country a nation to be proud of under the one flag and by each others side...
call me a racist or whatever,in my experiences the indigenous people my age had as much chance as I did to do well in the world we live in....just my opinion and will be glad to respond to people who think Im out of line with my comments and perception of our society today...

Just a couple of points, firstly I wouldn't call you racist , but there are a couple of things with you post. Your use of "we have given them" adds a sense of superiority to your post, who is the we you are referring to?

Also you state that indigenous people your age had as much chance to do well as you did, even if that was true they also had a larger chance of being incarcerated than just about any other group of people in the world.

We have given them what they asked for ...Equality and their tribal land rites back,we means all of Australians who have the respect or our indigenous brothers and sisters..
The guys I played football with had jobs and kids,the kids went to school and were treated no differently than the others in the school....those who were incarcerated either didnt want to take the opportunity to unite as one and do as all others did or it was easier to play the hard done by card,I really dont care what colour they are,if their incarcerated they have done the wrong thing...we all should know right from wrong if we have the right guidence from a young age...

So what is it about our society that leads to a higher percentage of indigenous people being incarcerated than other groups?

I told you the answer cochise....guidence from an early age...it starts at home ...the ones who want to play the hard done by card are the ones who dont want to get off their backside and be productive in our community,and they also would rather get the chq off the govt each fortnight than do things for themselves...I have seen it tenfold while I was in the Riverina....Im not going to argue with you cochise as I respect your input to the forum at the highest level...I have gone through plenty with the indigenous people to know what Im talking about...one example I will give you,I had an altercation with an Aboriginal man who called me white trash for saying hello to him,2 days later he found where I lived and kicked my door down and took my tv,video player and money I had on my bedside table....the police found him he went to court and paid a $200 fine...I lost my stuff and got nothing back....thats why they get incarcerated and so they should,if I had done the same I would be in Goulburn gaol for 6 months at least...so as I said I dont want to argue with you but I at least have got on with the other Aboriginal people that I was close to....cant tar them all with the same brush.....

So how do you break the cycle? you say it starts at home and I do agree and that is part of the problem, this is intergenerational and trauma from the governments actions in the past is passed down due to that. That is why this is such a difficult thing to fix and why there are indigenous people that feel outside our society.

Mate, I don't see this as a argument, more a discussion and have no ill will towards your point of view. I don't agree with it but understand where you are a coming from.

I think to break the cycle,education and equality for all is a good start...I did say I didnt want an argument and it hasnt been,its been a great discussion..however our indigenous people must realise that we are one nation and we are solid in our committment to our country..dont take this the wrong way ,but if they want to better themselves then they will have to have the want....it really is up to them to make a better life for now and the future,rehashing what crimes were done against them 200 yrs ago doesnt cut it in my books we all have been given a chance to do better for ourselves,lets face it we are one of the greatest countries in the world and our forefathers had many a battle to get us to where we are now...its really up to all of us to find a good solution to our problems rather than keep digging up the past and festering problems that should have been solved many years ago...

Nah, not one country. There are the 1st Nations People and then there are the Invaders.

And this is why we will never get a fully united great country while people think like that....my parents came to Australia after ww2,they worked hard under extreme conditions to make a better life for themselves,the govt at the time naturalised them both and called them Australian citizens...

I was born here and have never considered mum or dad or my brother and I invaders....that is crap Mike and you should really think about posting somethings...I can understand that some minority want to keep the invader dream alive,but thanks to my parents and many other migrants from war torn Europe they helped build this country to where it became an even greater country to live in...

One quick question for you....if the "INVADERS"hadnt came here would anyone know what Australia would have been like if the 1st nation people were in charge ? its just a hypothetical question,but needs to be answered as to find a solution to our problems associated with the first landing and settlement...