Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[piquet339]

Don't pull that "marriage equality isn't that important" bs. Yknow what a lack of marriage equality is linked to? Homophobia. Yknow what homophobia can do? Push LGBTQIA youth into depression, and lead to suicide. It's about the bigger picture in terms of treating an already underrepresented and discriminated group with respect. Marriage equality may not seem important to you, but it is the LGBTQIA movement, because its the first step in a long path towards equality, and if the government is unwilling to take that step it just alienates the group and leaves them in the dirt.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Ok, but do you really think Rudd believes in it? It seemed to only come out as a policy when he was lagging in the polls.

That's irrelevant. He's supporting it now and that's what matters. Whether or not he personally believes in it doesn't matter it's the fact that he's said he'll do it

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

But will he actually do it? Politicians are not exactly the most trustworthy people around ya know…

 

[wtigers]

If he doesn't then he'll be alienating a large percentage of his voters. Also, even if he doesn't, he'll still be one step ahead of Tony who has been introducing pamphlets about how marriage equality destroys families and kids lives

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Masterton]

Wow, it's great to see people at least attempting to play nice in this thread. I was imagining bloodshed, but I've seen more name-calling discussing the merits of Keith Galloway. Hats off.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

If he doesn't then he'll be alienating a large percentage of his voters. Also, even if he doesn't, he'll still be one step ahead of Tony who has been introducing pamphlets about how marriage equality destroys families and kids lives

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Yeah, because a politician has never retracted pre-election promises…

FTR I believe social issues are just as important to the electorate as economic and financial issues, but the reality of the situation is that the way the Australian media machine is geared coupled with the general apathy of the Australian voting public, voters are easily led to vote down a path of selfishness rather than vote with an altruistic view.

Give the public a choice between meagre tax cuts or pension increases... Guess which way nearly every taxpayer will vote, particularly low income earners?

 

[piquet339]

Most voters would say that marriage equality policy doesn't figure too highly in whether they vote Libs or Labor, especially when compared with the economic, health, education, and transport policies.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Most voters would say that marriage equality policy doesn't figure too highly in whether they vote Libs or Labor, especially when compared with the economic, health, education, and transport policies.

Exactly, if it doesn't infringe on their rights, they won't give a stuff. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's the way it is.

 

[piquet339]

Most voters would say that marriage equality policy doesn't figure too highly in whether they vote Libs or Labor, especially when compared with the economic, health, education, and transport policies.

Exactly, if it doesn't infringe on their rights, they won't give a stuff. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's the way it is.

Yep agree. The facts of life I'm afraid and it aint changing in my life time…

 

[hammertime]

If he doesn't then he'll be alienating a large percentage of his voters. Also, even if he doesn't, he'll still be one step ahead of Tony who has been introducing pamphlets about how marriage equality destroys families and kids lives

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

What pamphlets?

 

[wtigers]

If he doesn't then he'll be alienating a large percentage of his voters. Also, even if he doesn't, he'll still be one step ahead of Tony who has been introducing pamphlets about how marriage equality destroys families and kids lives

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

What pamphlets?

Apologies, they weren't by the liberal party but rather on their behalf. Misread the initial information given to me. I retract my statement about tony. However, I was still deeply offended by his statement that it was a "trend" or "fad" or whatever he said.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[hammertime]

If he doesn't then he'll be alienating a large percentage of his voters. Also, even if he doesn't, he'll still be one step ahead of Tony who has been introducing pamphlets about how marriage equality destroys families and kids lives

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

What pamphlets?

Apologies, they weren't by the liberal party but rather on their behalf. Misread the initial information given to me. I retract my statement about tony. However, I was still deeply offended by his statement that it was a "trend" or "fad" or whatever he said.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

KRudd - is that you?

Maybe we need to get Finance and Treasury in here to provide some facts :wink:

 

[Black_n_White]

How foolish is the average common man…

praise the Labor $1000 handout, who spent it.... the cash flush spent it, the battlers banked it, and the average joe bought 3 ounces of pot, or had hammer or ice for a week... Asia loved us for it....

I have lived all my life, all 33yrs, taught to be understanding of sexual preferances, and as an indoctrinated catholic, but a self appointed athiest, the entire problem with same sex marriage is the title. Marriage is a sacrament to religiously bound members of many faiths, the entire sentiment of the ritual has deep seeded roots in all religions... Homosexuals ( without any derogatory sentiments) want to/should be evaluated as equals, not in a religious light but that as a person, a human. I think the label being chased, "marriage" is wrong. What is needed is a term, not to segregate, but to unite all under one umbrella, "Union" for simple terms, but that which all religious, athiests, and currently unconventional marriages can be applied for.... the joining of two people as a unit, who cares for colour or creed. Put something like that on a platter as a social issue, turn the issue on its head...

But to be honest, if it is a vehicle for campaigning, then we have alot of bigger issues as a community.

 

[system]

Marriage is a term co-opted by religious institutions.

They had ceremonies but adopted the term marriage long after it was a secular practice.

Marriage is a secular union sometimes conducted under the auspices of a church/synagogue/mosque etc. They do not own the term and have less right in determining it's usage then the system of government who bought about the licensing and terminology

 

[Tim Sheens]

Give me a break - one of the biggest myths in history that the stimulus package of asian manufactured flat screen TV's kept the economy afloat. Talk to a genuine real economist.

Who do you suggest? One who understands that retail expenditure benefits the economy even if the goods are made overseas? Give me a break indeeed. Try reading Michael Pascoe's piece in the Fairfax press today.

OK - EXPENDITURE benefits the economy and there are many ways to employ this. Both increased public spending and
good governance can improve growth outcomes. There is also evidence of an interaction between government expenditure and governance which suggests that countries with good governance make more effective use of public expenditure Similarly there is evidence of an interaction between good governance and credit suggesting that good
governance is a pre-condition for growth enhancing finance and/or vice versa. Human capital is also found to significantly and positively affect economic growth. All of this means that it isn't just necessarily about SPENDING that provides the positive outcomes, it is how it is managed during and after and in my humble opinion, there were many many things that contributed to Oz's standing during this time and if the surplus had been managed more scientifically and with longer term views in mind rather than just a popularity grab we would have been better off over the longer term. Like the post above - much better ways a good government could have spend the money for an equal or better outcome.

And yes, lets remove the incentive for people to strive to get ahead by increasing taxes for the wealthier, increase small business taxes (small business by the way is a HUGE employer - or it was) and minimise other potential benefits advantages like CGT and FBT. Lets just all give up and go on welfare….oh thats right, its not the governments money......its ours!

But hey, just my informed opinion, i realise not everyone gets it.

The SURPLUS rhetoric that we have been listening to for years came from 2 things in the main, one being Costello's sale of a good chunk of our gold reserves, and the rest from the sale of Telstra.

We live in a capitalist society as we are all aware, trouble is some think we can all be rich. To get rich one has to capitalise on others, with the others being the poorest. It is a fact that cannot be argued.

 

[system]

That is true.

For over a decade all levels of government in this country have convinced the average person that deficit or surplus are the only things that matter, all the while selling off assets whose regulation and employment opportunities benefited the everyday citizen.

This election has been a race to see who can hit rock bottom first

 

[southerntiger]

How foolish is the average common man…

praise the Labor $1000 handout, who spent it.... the cash flush spent it, the battlers banked it, and the average joe bought 3 ounces of pot, or had hammer or ice for a week... Asia loved us for it....

I have lived all my life, all 33yrs, taught to be understanding of sexual preferances, and as an indoctrinated catholic, but a self appointed athiest, the entire problem with same sex marriage is the title. Marriage is a sacrament to religiously bound members of many faiths, the entire sentiment of the ritual has deep seeded roots in all religions.

This is historical nonsense. Its like saying that the Germans fought on unicorns in WWII. Lifetime bonding predates religion.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

 

[Tim Sheens]

That's not even remotely true.

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

The alternative has killed people with rushed policy and you think the bloke who was a successful senior cabinet minister for a decade is incompetent?

Assuming that your are referencing the insulation programme, the FACT is that these deaths (electrocution) have always occurred in a similar ratio. The sheer number of installations over a short period of time simply meant that the loss of life was frequent, rather than spread over many years.

I am a small businessman in the construction industry and was actually doing attic work on the day the poor young lad died of heat stress in Sydney. His greedy, employers were at fault, not the government. I told my workers to stay home that day, as the previous day was hot enough.

 

[Tim Sheens]

That is true.

For over a decade all levels of government in this country have convinced the average person that deficit or surplus are the only things that matter, all the while selling off assets whose regulation and employment opportunities benefited the everyday citizen.

This election has been a race to see who can hit rock bottom first

I am a small business operator and as such would be expected by most to be a coalition voter. However, whilst I have not always put them last choice for the lower house, with this parting gift from Minchin in the form of an extreme right leader, the only number suitable for the local candidate is the highest. Made easier by the fact it is Jaymes Diaz who does not even know their policies.

 

[Black_n_White]

Marriage is a term co-opted by religious institutions.

They had ceremonies but adopted the term marriage long after it was a secular practice.

Marriage is a secular union sometimes conducted under the auspices of a church/synagogue/mosque etc. They do not own the term and have less right in determining it's usage then the system of government who bought about the licensing and terminology

See you agree… secular acknowledgement of the term is the problem. If every sect bar race, colour or creed, had to answer to a higher legal avenue, they would do so... they have for eons. If the depths of my heart have to be delved into, I am no bigot. Though for the legal reasons, to appease all parties there is a higher legal avenue to appease all parties. Labor is doing its usual, appealing to the lower masses. Marital equality isnt on the radar regarding the real issues this country faces, the future of the nation doesnt rest on the balance of this issue.

I dont find Abbott personable, i think the man is sociably reterded, but thats not why I vote for him. You have to disassociate yourself from ties and have a realistic view when it comes to long term solutions for the country.

 

[Black_n_White]

How foolish is the average common man…

praise the Labor $1000 handout, who spent it.... the cash flush spent it, the battlers banked it, and the average joe bought 3 ounces of pot, or had hammer or ice for a week... Asia loved us for it....

I have lived all my life, all 33yrs, taught to be understanding of sexual preferances, and as an indoctrinated catholic, but a self appointed athiest, the entire problem with same sex marriage is the title. Marriage is a sacrament to religiously bound members of many faiths, the entire sentiment of the ritual has deep seeded roots in all religions.

This is historical nonsense. Its like saying that the Germans fought on unicorns in WWII. Lifetime bonding predates religion.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

stupidity…. lifetime bonding pre-dates thousands of years of religion which I already admitted has no bearing on my personal opinion making.... feed off the bottom of the barrel. 33yrs including a homeless period of 2 yr where no church run avenue would grant me a bed.... Yeah.... Allah, Jeebus nor Budda changed my circumstances....

 

[system]

See you agree… secular acknowledgement of the term is the problem. If every sect bar race, colour or creed, had to answer to a higher legal avenue, they would do so... they have for eons. If the depths of my heart have to be delved into, I am no bigot. Though for the legal reasons, to appease all parties there is a higher legal avenue to appease all parties. Labor is doing its usual, appealing to the lower masses. Marital equality isnt on the radar regarding the real issues this country faces, the future of the nation doesnt rest on the balance of this issue.

I dont find Abbott personable, i think the man is sociably reterded, but thats not why I vote for him. You have to disassociate yourself from ties and have a realistic view when it comes to long term solutions for the country.

Marriage is a secular institution is my point.

It does not require a covenant with a recognised deity of any form.

I do have a realistic view for the long term. The best thing that could happen is for Abbott to lose in a very narrow margin and have a truly divided two houses of Parliament and ideally the Greens to lose all bar a few of their seats.

Force the Coalition to finally rid their house of the plague that is the religious right faction headed by Mr Abbott who base their policies on appealing to the lowest common denominator and the base instincts of fear and hatred of the electorate.

Make no mistake we deserve the two candidates and party options we currently have laid before us. A decade of self absorption and lack of the most basic empathy and compassion bought us to this point