Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Black_n_White]

Funny thing is Smeg, I dont think you and I are too far apart in the way we think, what we want, how to get there is what has us fields apart.

Communism is a beautiful theory, it really is, but in the end it still relies on someone reaching for something extra to divert and direct, to which end it is commercialism without the rewards. Communism breeds corruption.

 

[system]

Rudd was an absolute twit on Rove a few weeks ago. Painful to watch.

I reckon Joe Hockey would go well as opposition leader.

Anyone who votes for labour this coming election is a fairdinkum idiot after all the lying corruption deceving crap…,
Coming from a labour supporter

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[Mccarry]

I've been so disenchanted by the level of political conversation in Australia over the past 5 years or so. So many people vote for the perceived personality of the leader instead of policy. People are struggling to choose more than usual this time as both leaders lack Charisma.

It may have already been said in this super thread, but just in case it hasn't, the vote compass tool on the ABC website is fantastic. It has the top 30 questions and shows clearly where you stand vs the major parties in each issue.

My best mate has voted one way his whole life based on limited facts or reference to policy. He used the vote compass tool two days ago and discovered his views are actually on the other side of politics. What a great moment.

Last point. Murdoch's blatant abuse of his media power this election is a slight on our whole country. He doesn't even try to hide the campaigning. How much contempt must he feel for the Australian people.

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[Yossarian]

The stimulus package was a response to the GFC. Without "letting everyone buy a flat screen TV" the backside would have fallen out of the economy. Even Sloppy Joe can't bring himself to criticise the concept of stimulus and the results (i.e. the performance of the Australian economy since the GFC compared to other western economies) indicate it was highly successful.

If you want to talk about wasting huge surpluses on buying votes maybe you should be more concerned with the Howard/Costello tax cuts or Tony's $75k for millionaires to push out children.

I agree yoss, we needed a stimulus. But we could have been far smarter with the short, medium and long term projects to minimise boomer burdens. It's not the action itself, but the structure.

How about Hospital equipment revamps (with a foxus on Aussie made) rather than School Halls, Celing Batts and cutting the handouts? or a greater focus on some major transport projects to help those same pensioners get around in the future?

… and really? You are towing the line of the class warfare? So you think it's not fair for the people who pay the majority of tax to get a little back to help have a family? but it's fair to give their hard earned money to everyone else who maybe didn't put in years of effort at school? We need to promote sucess in this country and stop it with the tall poppy rubbish.

Maybe it could have been done better but there was a need to act quickly and I'm not sure how much money buying hospital equipment pumps into the wider economy. The BER was about building things, stimulating the building industry etc.

Class Welfare? Oh come now… Government support is not about funding people who are capable of looking after themselves. Do you seriously think everyone should get the same government assistance whether they're a pensioner or a millionaire? Taxation has always been about the redistribution of wealth - not even Abbott publicly supports a regressive or even a flat tax system. It's nothing to do with tall poppies - I wish them well - but I don't think the government should be giving them money they don't need to have children.

 

[hammertime]

That's not even remotely true.

The comments about his personality were separate.

I honestly believe he is incompetent, hence why I don't understand how he's gotten so far in politics.

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The alternative has killed people with rushed policy and you think the bloke who was a successful senior cabinet minister for a decade is incompetent?

Assuming that your are referencing the insulation programme, the FACT is that these deaths (electrocution) have always occurred in a similar ratio. The sheer number of installations over a short period of time simply meant that the loss of life was frequent, rather than spread over many years.

I am a small businessman in the construction industry and was actually doing attic work on the day the poor young lad died of heat stress in Sydney. His greedy, employers were at fault, not the government. I told my workers to stay home that day, as the previous day was hot enough.

you don't think that the nature of the scheme allowed unscrupulous contractors to enter the industry and pose significant risks.

…then, allowing for the above, you don't think they could have tried to then minimise electrocution risk by utilising fibreglass insulation and plastic staples?

 

[Glennb]

It is a party block in power and I personally know some of the guys pulling the strings in the caucus room under Abbott and it is why I used the tip of the sword reference..

You realise that the libs don't have a caucus don't you?

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[hammertime]

The stimulus package was a response to the GFC. Without "letting everyone buy a flat screen TV" the backside would have fallen out of the economy. Even Sloppy Joe can't bring himself to criticise the concept of stimulus and the results (i.e. the performance of the Australian economy since the GFC compared to other western economies) indicate it was highly successful.

If you want to talk about wasting huge surpluses on buying votes maybe you should be more concerned with the Howard/Costello tax cuts or Tony's $75k for millionaires to push out children.

I agree yoss, we needed a stimulus. But we could have been far smarter with the short, medium and long term projects to minimise boomer burdens. It's not the action itself, but the structure.

How about Hospital equipment revamps (with a foxus on Aussie made) rather than School Halls, Celing Batts and cutting the handouts? or a greater focus on some major transport projects to help those same pensioners get around in the future?

… and really? You are towing the line of the class warfare? So you think it's not fair for the people who pay the majority of tax to get a little back to help have a family? but it's fair to give their hard earned money to everyone else who maybe didn't put in years of effort at school? We need to promote sucess in this country and stop it with the tall poppy rubbish.

Maybe it could have been done better but there was a need to act quickly and I'm not sure how much money buying hospital equipment pumps into the wider economy. The BER was about building things, stimulating the building industry etc.

Class Welfare? Oh come now… Government support is not about funding people who are capable of looking after themselves. Do you seriously think everyone should get the same government assistance whether they're a pensioner or a millionaire? Taxation has always been about the redistribution of wealth - not even Abbott publicly supports a regressive or even a flat tax system. It's nothing to do with tall poppies - I wish them well - but I don't think the government should be giving them money they don't need to have children.

Well that actually is another point, pretty much all the stimulus promoted the trades. Batts, halls and the NBN… Plus the transport improvements. All you are going to do is cause wage inflation and I think that's what we saw with the halls.

Well, I think the rich can't get slammed both ways. They pay a very high marginal rate and lock in similar commitments based on their disposable income. Just larger or nicer places. So, Any further testing or limitations is a duplication seeking to divide Australia and promote not what we should aspire to. If we also want to promote having families, who do we want to promote? Our successful people? I certainly want to.

A successful woman who has sacrificed her life for hard work for years deserves some of her taxes back like everyone else.

 

[southerntiger]

It is a party block in power and I personally know some of the guys pulling the strings in the caucus room under Abbott and it is why I used the tip of the sword reference..

You realise that the libs don't have a caucus don't you?

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Yes they do.

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[southerntiger]

http://m.imgur.com/MfYfhLE

This sums it up for me. Funny and true.

This government has been a disorganised rabble internally but they have actually done a decent job otherwise.

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[Flippedy]

Give me a break - one of the biggest myths in history that the stimulus package of asian manufactured flat screen TV's kept the economy afloat. Talk to a genuine real economist.

Who do you suggest? One who understands that retail expenditure benefits the economy even if the goods are made overseas? Give me a break indeeed. Try reading Michael Pascoe's piece in the Fairfax press today.

OK - EXPENDITURE benefits the economy and there are many ways to employ this. Both increased public spending and
good governance can improve growth outcomes. There is also evidence of an interaction between government expenditure and governance which suggests that countries with good governance make more effective use of public expenditure Similarly there is evidence of an interaction between good governance and credit suggesting that good
governance is a pre-condition for growth enhancing finance and/or vice versa. Human capital is also found to significantly and positively affect economic growth. All of this means that it isn't just necessarily about SPENDING that provides the positive outcomes, it is how it is managed during and after and in my humble opinion, there were many many things that contributed to Oz's standing during this time and if the surplus had been managed more scientifically and with longer term views in mind rather than just a popularity grab we would have been better off over the longer term. Like the post above - much better ways a good government could have spend the money for an equal or better outcome.

And yes, lets remove the incentive for people to strive to get ahead by increasing taxes for the wealthier, increase small business taxes (small business by the way is a HUGE employer - or it was) and minimise other potential benefits advantages like CGT and FBT. Lets just all give up and go on welfare….oh thats right, its not the governments money......its ours!

But hey, just my informed opinion, i realise not everyone gets it.

The SURPLUS rhetoric that we have been listening to for years came from 2 things in the main, one being Costello's sale of a good chunk of our gold reserves, and the rest from the sale of Telstra.

**We live in a capitalist society as we are all aware, trouble is some think we can all be rich. To get rich one has to capitalise on others, with the others being the poorest. It is a fact that cannot be argued.**

****

This is so very true - Capitalism begets inequality and renders a country with no less a dictatorship than Communism would. It's just that it's a dictatorship that is shared among a few fat cats.

I see that the Libs' highly prominent, 'in your face' campaign this election has been heavily funded by these fat cats, who no doubt will be looking to have their palms greased once the Abbott Government gets into power, so there will be bugger all left for the rest of us.

It's nothing new really, the rich have always gotten richer and the poor poorer under a Coalition govt, yet somehow we've all been led to believe that everyone is better off - courtesy of the Murdoch media. Whilst these people have always supported the Coalition, they seem to be more outspoken and front and centre this time around, instead of hiding in the shadows like they usually do - probably because they know that Tony needs all the help he can get lol.

 

[TurnStyle]

Funny thing is Smeg, I dont think you and I are too far apart in the way we think, what we want, how to get there is what has us fields apart.

Communism is a beautiful theory, it really is, but in the end it still relies on someone reaching for something extra to divert and direct, to which end it is commercialism without the rewards. Communism breeds corruption.

the inherent problem of socialism, or communism, is that the people who have risen to power have abused the principle as you said.

the problem of capitalism has been shown economically, eg; the US.

both paradigms have pros and cons but the thing is whoever is in office is ultimately just a marionette for whoever has the power.

anyway. "it doesnt matter who you vote for: the government still gets in!"

 

[TurnStyle]

This is so very true - Capitalism begets inequality and renders a country with no less a dictatorship than Communism would. It's just that it's a dictatorship that is shared among a few fat cats.

and the difference is?!

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

 

[stryker]

Anyone have a prediction as to how many seats the major parties will win?

FTR I will choose the Coalition to win 92.

 

[Saturnalia]

Reading the Liberal party facebook page has given me brain damage.

Fortunately in my line of work I don't actually have to live here,

which is increasingly looking like the best option.

 

[Winnipeg]

Palmer to win two seats

one for each rse cheek
\
\
heh

if I don't laugh I'll cry :smiley:

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Some small part of me hopes Palmer bags a few seats. The ensuing hilarity would be worth it.

 

[stryker]

Imagine him and Katter in Parliament tgether…we'd get some classic soundbites

 

[Tiger_Watto]

I hope he wins a seat…

I've loved his interviews the last 3 days sticking it to the media and tell them they are stupid.

For too long the major parties have been targeting minority Australia to get a swing in there favour.

Either way, we will have a new boss after tomorrow!

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Could you imagine him as PM? He's bat crazy…

We'd be like the North Korea of the Western world.

 

[Yossarian]

A successful woman who has sacrificed her life for hard work for years deserves some of her taxes back like everyone else.

Well I think this is the fundamental point we diverge on. I disagree completely - a successful woman gets paid a good salary as her reward. She's perfectly entitled to negotiate a generous maternity leave package with her employer. Paying her over 3 times what an OAP (who possibly also paid her taxes all her life) is IMO simply absurd and disgraceful.