Recruitment

[BAGNF05]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

lol.

You make it sound like this was part of the master plan.

Wests have been scooping up all the plodders they can for the last 4 seasons, on top of that they publicly approached and been rejected by several marque players. On top of that, they have ( for a range of reasons) lost juniors that are now superstars.

Junior pathways are now only being discussed because its literally the clubs only option.

And it failed back in 2016 when we lost our last talented crop. Club needs to identify its weaknesses and fix them rather than blame shifting.

Aren't they doing that with the appointment of Tim Sheens, Brett Kimmorely, Indigenous programs, cap management..

Who are they replacing? Seems we’re just throwing more money at different stuff to me.

We have identified we are having trouble progressing juniors to NRL players so we are investing in that area for that reason. Kimmorley has gone into the role Brett Hodgson was going to fill.

Are we though? Lots of guys are running around in rep jerseys that we produced. Melbourne go ok just raiding south east QLD. I’d argue we should be more focussed on our NRL teams woes than the kids. I really hope Sheens role is bigger than we’re hearing, that’s the one thing we’ve done this year that makes much sense.

 

[weststigerman]

I think the signing of Ken Maumalo has been underrated a bit. He's one of the NZ wingers and is a very well credentialed signing who had multiple teams chasing him. However, he's a winger and while the team is getting belted, he's going to have a very limited impact.

While I would love us to land another big fish, I don't think it's worth paying overs unless they are a spine player. It sucks that we keep being linked to players that we don't sign and are made to look like we "missed out". The club is actually doing the right thing here for once, and while it's frustrating, there will be other players that become available in the next couple of months.

 

[JC99]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

lol.

You make it sound like this was part of the master plan.

Wests have been scooping up all the plodders they can for the last 4 seasons, on top of that they publicly approached and been rejected by several marque players. On top of that, they have ( for a range of reasons) lost juniors that are now superstars.

Junior pathways are now only being discussed because its literally the clubs only option.

And it failed back in 2016 when we lost our last talented crop. Club needs to identify its weaknesses and fix them rather than blame shifting.

Aren't they doing that with the appointment of Tim Sheens, Brett Kimmorely, Indigenous programs, cap management..

Who are they replacing? Seems we’re just throwing more money at different stuff to me.

We have identified we are having trouble progressing juniors to NRL players so we are investing in that area for that reason. Kimmorley has gone into the role Brett Hodgson was going to fill.

Are we though? Lots of guys are running around in rep jerseys that we produced. Melbourne go ok just raiding south east QLD. I’d argue we should be more focussed on our NRL teams woes than the kids. I really hope Sheens role is bigger than we’re hearing, that’s the one thing we’ve done this year that makes much sense.

This strategy only started with Madge and hartigan, have we let any juniors go since then that are now playing rep footy?

 

[nrlsurvivor]

Latrell Mitchell realistically was always going to a top 4 club. We offered money he took success. Age old issue.

Pangai chose option B over us. I don't see it as being the alarming issue some do. I'd rather someone like Stefano any day of the week.

Kent has mention lattrell south money ended up same as us too

Hmmm, that's not how it came across at the time, I thought we were well above the pack? Though he should know more than most?

Kent’s implied that Souths are paying Latrell more than what they report to be paying him

 

[Cairnstigers]

Is it possible that the dogs haven't announced him yet because they can't get him under their cap
Are they waiting to move someone on 1st
Anyway if reports are true then we should move on and forget about TPJ
I don't know why we hang on so long for an answer
Either a player accepts our offer or he doesn't
It should not be used as a bargain chip
I just bought a unit with an offer on the table for 24 hours
I didn't give them time to have an open home so others could make an offer
It was a take it or leave it approach
It's worked for me twice now as I learnt the 1st time not to get played and used as leverage
Our initial offer to Pangai was probably the best offer at the time, but giving him all this time to field better offers works against you
Put your best offer in the 1st time and give minimal time to accept
If it's not good enough then move on the the next

We should not have gone back for a second bite

I would go after Vaughan now in the fashion I spoke about above
Ask his manager what would secure his signature today/Tomorrow
If we agree get the deal done
If not then walk away and let him take his chances elsewhere

Nrl contracts are like an auction now
Usually goes to the highest bidder but also comes back to the terms

Maybe the club should have gone to $750'000 per year on a 3 year deal
But the 2nd and 3rd year in the clubs option
If he performs we take it up
If not the see ya later
Bit like Bj

I suppose if you're going to use that tactic, you've got to be prepared to walk after 24 hours as well.

I'd also imagine that tactic attracts sellers that are desperate for a buyer.

I don't think TPJ was desperate and I don't think we were willing to walk given there arent that many players around in the market of TPJ's stature.

I doubt this tactic would work if attempting to buy a highly sought after property.

In property sometimes the 1st offer is the best offer
Sure we take a risk
But so does the player in ?

 

[BAGNF05]

Obviously the club moved in a different direction again with the Pangai Junior deal. Does anyone have an idea what direction that is?

We can’t sign really really good players so now we just have to find some really really average players. I think that’s the plan ??‍♂️

Well no, they're signing talented rookies who are stuck behind more established players like Doueihi, Stefano and Laurie. I wish we could sign really good players straight up but it doesn't seem likely

They need to get it right, and soon.

Otherwise the three you mentioned will have Managers talking about swap deals.

 

[Cairnstigers]

Is it possible that the dogs haven't announced him yet because they can't get him under their cap
Are they waiting to move someone on 1st
Anyway if reports are true then we should move on and forget about TPJ
I don't know why we hang on so long for an answer
Either a player accepts our offer or he doesn't
It should not be used as a bargain chip
I just bought a unit with an offer on the table for 24 hours
I didn't give them time to have an open home so others could make an offer
It was a take it or leave it approach
It's worked for me twice now as I learnt the 1st time not to get played and used as leverage
Our initial offer to Pangai was probably the best offer at the time, but giving him all this time to field better offers works against you
Put your best offer in the 1st time and give minimal time to accept
If it's not good enough then move on the the next

**>We should not have gone back for a second bite**

I would go after Vaughan now in the fashion I spoke about above
Ask his manager what would secure his signature today/Tomorrow
If we agree get the deal done
If not then walk away and let him take his chances elsewhere

Nrl contracts are like an auction now
Usually goes to the highest bidder but also comes back to the terms

Maybe the club should have gone to $750'000 per year on a 3 year deal
But the 2nd and 3rd year in the clubs option
If he performs we take it up
If not the see ya later
Bit like Bj

I disagree with that. You go back for a second crack for two reasons. The first is you might just get them at a price you are willing to pay. The second reason is the opposition then has to pay overs for them and it hurts them financially to do so.

And yet Bulldogs are now looking at Signing Vaughan as well
Where is all this cap coming from

 

[GarryOwen]

The recruitment has been a bit of a shambles for almost the whole existence of the club tbh. We had a couple of good crops that wielded results, but even then we've only had three finals series (albeit we won a comp and could/should have won another).

Since 2011 the club has gone from panic move to panic move, resulting in lots of failed short term moves. Who can forget old mate Grant Mayer speculating that we'd make a GF in the mid 2010s?

I am a bit more confident in the club's direction over the last year or two. We've made some shrewd buys for the first time in a while, and some very promising youngsters on top of that. There have still been mis-steps (e.g. BJ) but I can at least see what we're building towards now. Hopefully we continue along that route in picking up these young guys and developing them into frontline FGers.

Of course, we'll still need to recruit elite players on top of that. The COE should help - I can't imagine the current/past facilities have sold the club very well.
But it's the old conundrum: you can't sign elite players until you have an elite team. And you can't have an elite team until you have elite players.

 

[mike]

Is it possible that the dogs haven't announced him yet because they can't get him under their cap
Are they waiting to move someone on 1st
Anyway if reports are true then we should move on and forget about TPJ
I don't know why we hang on so long for an answer
Either a player accepts our offer or he doesn't
It should not be used as a bargain chip
I just bought a unit with an offer on the table for 24 hours
I didn't give them time to have an open home so others could make an offer
It was a take it or leave it approach
It's worked for me twice now as I learnt the 1st time not to get played and used as leverage
Our initial offer to Pangai was probably the best offer at the time, but giving him all this time to field better offers works against you
Put your best offer in the 1st time and give minimal time to accept
If it's not good enough then move on the the next

**>We should not have gone back for a second bite**

I would go after Vaughan now in the fashion I spoke about above
Ask his manager what would secure his signature today/Tomorrow
If we agree get the deal done
If not then walk away and let him take his chances elsewhere

Nrl contracts are like an auction now
Usually goes to the highest bidder but also comes back to the terms

Maybe the club should have gone to $750'000 per year on a 3 year deal
But the 2nd and 3rd year in the clubs option
If he performs we take it up
If not the see ya later
Bit like Bj

I disagree with that. You go back for a second crack for two reasons. The first is you might just get them at a price you are willing to pay. The second reason is the opposition then has to pay overs for them and it hurts them financially to do so.

And yet Bulldogs are now looking at Signing Vaughan as well
Where is all this cap coming from

Questions need to be asked in that regard.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Obviously the club moved in a different direction again with the Pangai Junior deal. Does anyone have an idea what direction that is?

We can’t sign really really good players so now we just have to find some really really average players. I think that’s the plan ??‍♂️

Well no, they're signing talented rookies who are stuck behind more established players like Doueihi, Stefano and Laurie. I wish we could sign really good players straight up but it doesn't seem likely

They need to get it right, and soon.

Otherwise the three you mentioned will have Managers talking about swap deals.

And that's the concern I have. Focusing on young up and comers is great but it takes time, and if the club isn't having success on the field these guys are going to be very tempted to leave. Building from within is a great plan but if you're not aiming to play finals for another 3 years, you might have trouble keeping the talent you've got.

There needs to be a balance imo.

 

[cochise]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

lol.

You make it sound like this was part of the master plan.

Wests have been scooping up all the plodders they can for the last 4 seasons, on top of that they publicly approached and been rejected by several marque players. On top of that, they have ( for a range of reasons) lost juniors that are now superstars.

Junior pathways are now only being discussed because its literally the clubs only option.

And it failed back in 2016 when we lost our last talented crop. Club needs to identify its weaknesses and fix them rather than blame shifting.

Aren't they doing that with the appointment of Tim Sheens, Brett Kimmorely, Indigenous programs, cap management..

Who are they replacing? Seems we’re just throwing more money at different stuff to me.

We have identified we are having trouble progressing juniors to NRL players so we are investing in that area for that reason. Kimmorley has gone into the role Brett Hodgson was going to fill.

Are we though? Lots of guys are running around in rep jerseys that we produced. Melbourne go ok just raiding south east QLD. I’d argue we should be more focussed on our NRL teams woes than the kids. I really hope Sheens role is bigger than we’re hearing, that’s the one thing we’ve done this year that makes much sense.

That is part of the reasoning behind the pathways as well in developing players that believe in what we are doing and trying to achieve.

 

[Newtown]

This is how bad we are going with recruitment. I can tell you TPJ’S manager is very very close with a high Wests Tigers member and we still couldn’t get the signing done. This has officially confirmed that we are really struggling to bring high profile players to the club

You seem to be enjoying your new status. What happened to The Pom?

 

[cochise]

Obviously the club moved in a different direction again with the Pangai Junior deal. Does anyone have an idea what direction that is?

We can’t sign really really good players so now we just have to find some really really average players. I think that’s the plan ??‍♂️

Well no, they're signing talented rookies who are stuck behind more established players like Doueihi, Stefano and Laurie. I wish we could sign really good players straight up but it doesn't seem likely

They need to get it right, and soon.

Otherwise the three you mentioned will have Managers talking about swap deals.

And that's the concern I have. Focusing on young up and comers is great but it takes time, and if the club isn't having success on the field these guys are going to be very tempted to leave. Building from within is a great plan but if you're not aiming to play finals for another 3 years, you might have trouble keeping the talent you've got.

There needs to be a balance imo.

No one has said we aren’t aiming to play finals for 3 years though. That is just made up drama by fans. There really isn't a lot we can do to make the elite players we want to come here.

 

[aturkey]

The recruitment has been a bit of a shambles for almost the whole existence of the club tbh. We had a couple of good crops that wielded results, but even then we've only had three finals series (albeit we won a comp and could/should have won another).

Since 2011 the club has gone from panic move to panic move, resulting in lots of failed short term moves. Who can forget old mate Grant Mayer speculating that we'd make a GF in the mid 2010s?

I am a bit more confident in the club's direction over the last year or two. We've made some shrewd buys for the first time in a while, and some very promising youngsters on top of that. There have still been mis-steps (e.g. BJ) but I can at least see what we're building towards now. Hopefully we continue along that route in picking up these young guys and developing them into frontline FGers.

Of course, we'll still need to recruit elite players on top of that. The COE should help - I can't imagine the current/past facilities have sold the club very well.
But it's the old conundrum: you can't sign elite players until you have an elite team. And you can't have an elite team until you have elite players.

There is so much denial in this forum. This comment is a great example.

How have the Bulldogs signed Addo Carr, Tevita, and Burton then?

They do not have an elite team. What about the Titans signing Tino and Fifita? Did they have an elite team?

There are more factors at play here. Our location, our lack of success (3 finals in 21 years), our inability to locate and keep talent, our shit house facilities, our disregard of campbelltown, a lack of identity etc etc etc

If I was an NRL player right now, with my love of the Tigers, and had an option of the Tigers or any one else, I would not go to this club. It would be career suicide.

 

[JC99]

The recruitment has been a bit of a shambles for almost the whole existence of the club tbh. We had a couple of good crops that wielded results, but even then we've only had three finals series (albeit we won a comp and could/should have won another).

Since 2011 the club has gone from panic move to panic move, resulting in lots of failed short term moves. Who can forget old mate Grant Mayer speculating that we'd make a GF in the mid 2010s?

I am a bit more confident in the club's direction over the last year or two. We've made some shrewd buys for the first time in a while, and some very promising youngsters on top of that. There have still been mis-steps (e.g. BJ) but I can at least see what we're building towards now. Hopefully we continue along that route in picking up these young guys and developing them into frontline FGers.

Of course, we'll still need to recruit elite players on top of that. The COE should help - I can't imagine the current/past facilities have sold the club very well.
But it's the old conundrum: you can't sign elite players until you have an elite team. And you can't have an elite team until you have elite players.

There is so much denial in this forum. This comment is a great example.

How have the Bulldogs signed Addo Carr, Tevita, and Burton then?

They do not have an elite team. What about the Titans signing Tino and Fifita? Did they have an elite team?

There are more factors at play here. Our location, our lack of success (3 finals in 21 years), our inability to locate and keep talent, our disregard of campbelltown, a lack of identity etc etc etc

If I was an NRL player right now, with my love of the Tigers, and had an option of the Tigers or any one else, I would not go to this club.

Tigers are the last Sydney club you'd choose. No home ground, no identity, it's not prime area to live, there's really nothing much there to attract people off the field let alone our decade of failure and drama. This is why we need to win games and make finals because we are behind other clubs in those other areas.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Obviously the club moved in a different direction again with the Pangai Junior deal. Does anyone have an idea what direction that is?

We can’t sign really really good players so now we just have to find some really really average players. I think that’s the plan ??‍♂️

Well no, they're signing talented rookies who are stuck behind more established players like Doueihi, Stefano and Laurie. I wish we could sign really good players straight up but it doesn't seem likely

They need to get it right, and soon.

Otherwise the three you mentioned will have Managers talking about swap deals.

And that's the concern I have. Focusing on young up and comers is great but it takes time, and if the club isn't having success on the field these guys are going to be very tempted to leave. Building from within is a great plan but if you're not aiming to play finals for another 3 years, you might have trouble keeping the talent you've got.

There needs to be a balance imo.

No one has said we aren’t aiming to play finals for 3 years though. That is just made up drama by fans. There really isn't a lot we can do to make the elite players we want to come here.

I wouldn't say it's made up drama, but being realistic if we're looking to build from within it's going to take some time, I don't think anyone would deny that. Saying we're going to play finals in '22 or '23 might be on the optimistic side, especially given the teams around us are taking a more immediate approach to success (albeit perhaps short term) .

I have no issues with our approach due to our difficulty in signing players, but you have to concede that it does come with some risk of retaining players?

 

[aturkey]

The recruitment has been a bit of a shambles for almost the whole existence of the club tbh. We had a couple of good crops that wielded results, but even then we've only had three finals series (albeit we won a comp and could/should have won another).

Since 2011 the club has gone from panic move to panic move, resulting in lots of failed short term moves. Who can forget old mate Grant Mayer speculating that we'd make a GF in the mid 2010s?

I am a bit more confident in the club's direction over the last year or two. We've made some shrewd buys for the first time in a while, and some very promising youngsters on top of that. There have still been mis-steps (e.g. BJ) but I can at least see what we're building towards now. Hopefully we continue along that route in picking up these young guys and developing them into frontline FGers.

Of course, we'll still need to recruit elite players on top of that. The COE should help - I can't imagine the current/past facilities have sold the club very well.
But it's the old conundrum: you can't sign elite players until you have an elite team. And you can't have an elite team until you have elite players.

There is so much denial in this forum. This comment is a great example.

How have the Bulldogs signed Addo Carr, Tevita, and Burton then?

They do not have an elite team. What about the Titans signing Tino and Fifita? Did they have an elite team?

There are more factors at play here. Our location, our lack of success (3 finals in 21 years), our inability to locate and keep talent, our disregard of campbelltown, a lack of identity etc etc etc

If I was an NRL player right now, with my love of the Tigers, and had an option of the Tigers or any one else, I would not go to this club.

Tigers are the last Sydney club you'd choose. No home ground, no identity, it's not prime area to live, there's really nothing much there to attract people off the field let alone our decade of failure and drama. This is why we need to win games and make finals because we are behind other clubs in those other areas.

Exactly but this needs to be done by bringing up juniors and smart signings of youth like Stefano, and Laurie. If I see this club sign another BJ or Roberts or Mbye, it means nothing has changed. That's why some of this season rests on Madge. They were risky signings in a club with a history of risky signings, so in my eyes they were always dumb signings. Always. Have you seen BJ talk? Do you really think that's the type of character we need more of in this club? Like, how did he pass the interview? Do you think Bellamy would have signed BJ? Something makes me think, NO. Also, I respect Roberts for his toughness, but we are not the club to be coddling a first grader who struggles mentally. It's really bad foresight from Madge, and if he doesn't learn, he won't have a job in the future. I think he will though as his best players are the ones that are young.

 

[Viking Warrior]

Raiders were like us years ago and they had to go to the esl. Sheens will know of some players from there that might help us.

 

[aturkey]

What makes everyone so sure that the current roster will play for a different coach...

Shouldn't they want to play for personal performance and some pride in the jersey they put on..

Sure the Dogs recruitment has been out of this world on paper as was the Knights a few year back..it's got them nowhere really..basically they went away from junior development to trying to buy success..hasn't really worked out yet..doesn't look like it's going too

It's yet to be seen if it does at the Dogs..could work..could flop massively..

Building from within does produce results if done properly.. You develop Jake Simpkin to be our Harry Grant, Stefano Utoikamanu to be our Payne Hass, Tuki Simpkins to be our Pangia Jnr and so on.. Sure that doesn't mean if quality becomes available you don't have a crack or even pay overs if they are exceptional quality Brandon Smith like..

Buying comps has never been as successful as building them..

lol.

You make it sound like this was part of the master plan.

Wests have been scooping up all the plodders they can for the last 4 seasons, on top of that they publicly approached and been rejected by several marque players. On top of that, they have ( for a range of reasons) lost juniors that are now superstars.

Junior pathways are now only being discussed because its literally the clubs only option.

And it failed back in 2016 when we lost our last talented crop. Club needs to identify its weaknesses and fix them rather than blame shifting.

Aren't they doing that with the appointment of Tim Sheens, Brett Kimmorely, Indigenous programs, cap management..

Who are they replacing? Seems we’re just throwing more money at different stuff to me.

We have identified we are having trouble progressing juniors to NRL players so we are investing in that area for that reason. Kimmorley has gone into the role Brett Hodgson was going to fill.

Are we though? Lots of guys are running around in rep jerseys that we produced. Melbourne go ok just raiding south east QLD. I’d argue we should be more focussed on our NRL teams woes than the kids. I really hope Sheens role is bigger than we’re hearing, that’s the one thing we’ve done this year that makes much sense.

Mate, do you know what year it is? We lost all of those rep players way before this current investment in juniors etc. Your comment makes no sense.

 

[cochise]

Obviously the club moved in a different direction again with the Pangai Junior deal. Does anyone have an idea what direction that is?

We can’t sign really really good players so now we just have to find some really really average players. I think that’s the plan ??‍♂️

Well no, they're signing talented rookies who are stuck behind more established players like Doueihi, Stefano and Laurie. I wish we could sign really good players straight up but it doesn't seem likely

They need to get it right, and soon.

Otherwise the three you mentioned will have Managers talking about swap deals.

And that's the concern I have. Focusing on young up and comers is great but it takes time, and if the club isn't having success on the field these guys are going to be very tempted to leave. Building from within is a great plan but if you're not aiming to play finals for another 3 years, you might have trouble keeping the talent you've got.

There needs to be a balance imo.

No one has said we aren’t aiming to play finals for 3 years though. That is just made up drama by fans. There really isn't a lot we can do to make the elite players we want to come here.

I wouldn't say it's made up drama, but being realistic if we're looking to build from within it's going to take some time, I don't think anyone would deny that. Saying we're going to play finals in '22 or '23 might be on the optimistic side, especially given the teams around us are taking a more immediate approach to success (albeit perhaps short term) .

I have no issues with our approach due to our difficulty in signing players, but you have to concede that it does come with some risk of retaining players?

Honestly, I won't be surprised to see a couple of short term deals on players in that 100-150 game mark who come loose at other clubs over the next few months.