Referendum 2023

[hammertime]

I spent a few years living in Northern Malaysia. I love the steamy weather, the people, the great scenery and at that stage the cost of living.

Malay is good man. Especially up north there. Very nice beaches. Bet you loved it.

 

[TillLindemann]

Agree %100. This is a good way to save $
and have a centralised body that consults
the goverment on the various issues that
need to be addressed. This isn't a land grab.

IMO opinion (I'm typically wrong though) it would focus more on political/identity issues - treaty, Australia Day, etc - i.e the issues that matter to academics and the media.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I can’t trust the government to do anything that will affect any person for the better. There is always an underlying issue or motive that none of us know.
Add to that, the fact that society in general has gone to the dogs with woke culture and pandering to minorities. Something just smells rotten. I’m all for giving first nations people a voice, but this , to me, smells fishy.
The government can’t even please the population that apparently does have a voice now…
I work hard, and this past year after paying 50 odd grand in tax, I get a measly $1500 back… the least I’ve ever got back… add to that the rego and tolls I pay only to sit in traffic for an hour and a half every arvo and on pot holes roads.
I know all this has not a lot to do with the issue… I’m just saying I don’t trust this government and it will go balls up. I really couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I can’t trust the government to do anything that will affect any person for the better. There is always an underlying issue or motive that none of us know.
Add to that, the fact that society in general has gone to the dogs with woke culture and pandering to minorities. Something just smells rotten. I’m all for giving first nations people a voice, but this , to me, smells fishy.
The government can’t even please the population that apparently does have a voice now…
I work hard, and this past year after paying 50 odd grand in tax, I get a measly $1500 back… the least I’ve ever got back… add to that the rego and tolls I pay only to sit in traffic for an hour and a half every arvo and on pot holes roads.
I know all this has not a lot to do with the issue… I’m just saying I don’t trust this government and it will go balls up. I really couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

“Most Terrifying Words – ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” Quote Ronald Reagan

 

[Aceshigh]

Anything Dutton says NO to is a definite YES for me

Haha i am the opposite, Albo has an agenda the way he is pushing this thing , I live up on the Tweed these days and i see families still suffering from the floods , living in parks and out of cars and this bozo making priorities out of something unnecessary. The way i see it we are one and free and others need to get onboard for mine

 

[Kaito]

IMO opinion (I'm typically wrong though) it would focus more on political/identity issues - treaty, Australia Day, etc - i.e the issues that matter to academics and the media.

I understand the scepticism TL. Genuinely
don't think Albo has done a good job selling
the yes vote to the public in all honesty...

 

[Kaito]

Haha i am the opposite, Albo has an agenda the way he is pushing this thing , I live up on the Tweed these days and i see families still suffering from the floods , living in parks and out of cars and this bozo making priorities out of something unnecessary. The way i see it we are one and free and others need to get onboard for mine

Wait until you hear about the $300 billion we're
going to spend for the next 30 years on subs

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Same mate.

Still a citizen, but have to renounce voting rights if you don't expect to return in 6 years.

That's disappointing.

One would expect that someone born in Australia and living there for decades wouldn't have to think about whether their citizenship is still valid.

Should be able to hand it down to our kids even if residing abroad.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Wait until you hear about the $300 billion we're
going to spend for the next 30 years on subs

We probably won't even get all of them.

Not really ours anyway.

 

[hammertime]

That's disappointing.

One would expect that someone born in Australia and living there for decades wouldn't have to think about whether their citizenship is still valid.

Should be able to hand it down to our kids even if residing abroad.

From what I can see mate, is they have a cut-off of around that duration for a few things. Like I can't come back and use medicare either. But still definitely a citizen. The kids too.

They try to wrap it into taxation. A domicilary test. i.e. If you even look like you're coming back or care about Australia, they'll say you need to be taxed there too.

Thankgod I'm over here during the days when you can stream the NRL!

 

[Magpie_Magic]

From what I can see mate, is they have a cut-off of around that duration for a few things. Like I can't come back and use medicare either. But still definitely a citizen. The kids too.

They try to wrap it into taxation. A domicilary test. i.e. If you even look like you're coming back or care about Australia, they'll say you need to be taxed there too.

Thankgod I'm over here during the days when you can stream the NRL!

Very depressing to hear.

 

[Tucker]

Urban indigenous people have worse social and health outcomes than non-indigenous Australians in urban areas.

Please provide stats to back this up. It doesn’t sound correct.

As a race they have poorer outcomes, are less likely to go to uni, more likely to be imprisoned.

Just because they do experience these things doesn’t mean they experience them due to their race. They have more opportunities for work and education than everyone else.
The claim they are more likely to be imprisoned is a joke…lol.
Magistrates do everything in their power not to hand down custodial sentences to indigenous people. The ones that end up there truly belong there.
You sound like you are plagiarising a BLM pamphlet.

 

[Tucker]

Agree %100. This is a good way to save $
and have a centralised body that consults
the goverment on the various issues that
need to be addressed. This isn't a land grab.

I didn’t say it was a land grab.
You are dead wrong about this body making things easier. It’ll increase timelines and add red tape.
From experience I’m stating this is very unlikely to help.

 

[Tucker]

IMO opinion (I'm typically wrong though) it would focus more on political/identity issues - treaty, Australia Day, etc - i.e the issues that matter to academics and the media.

That is my concern as well.
Treaty and Reparations will receive express consideration and Indigenous health, education and family violence support will be an after thought.

 

[Tucker]

Wait until you hear about the $300 billion we're
going to spend for the next 30 years on subs

It’ll be more than that.
All Government projects like this blowout to the shithouse.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Agree %100. This is a good way to save $
and have a centralised body that consults
the goverment on the various issues that
need to be addressed.

So why does it need to be enshrined in the Constitution?

ATSIC didnt need the Constitution changed? Why does the Voice need the Constitution changed?

This isn't a land grab.

Can you point me to the text in either the referendum question or the proposed Consitutional amendment that demonstrates that it isnt a land grab?

 

[Twodogs]

So the claims are currently in court? That should tell you the Voice has zero to do with land claims. The Voice will provide advice not pass law or make policy.

I doubt that assertion, as the wording only insists that it be an advisory body. It doesn't actually stop it being legislated as something more. The constitution is designed to limit parliamentary overreach, not enable it.

Albo could follow through to the letter but that doesn't stop future parliaments interpreting it to suit themselves.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

IMO opinion (I'm typically wrong though) it would focus more on political/identity issues - treaty, Australia Day, etc - i.e the issues that matter to academics and the media.

So we are considering amending the Constitution and therefore enshrining in law for evermore, something that the two of you (and I) cant define what it will do?

No one sees this as a problem?

 

[Mistymuzzle]

The Voice will provide advice not pass law or make policy.

Can you please point me to the section of the referendum or the proposed Constitutional Amendment that defines the scope of "the Voice".

 

[Tucker]

I understand the scepticism TL. Genuinely
don't think Albo has done a good job selling
the yes vote to the public in all honesty...

It’s been frustratingly poor.
If anyone poses legitimate questions he gets aggressive, dismissive and even commences labelling them.
What the hell is he hiding?
All the carryon about the Uluṟu Statement from the Heart is also crazy. Some say it’s a one page poster about the country coming together others state it’s a multiple page document discussing strategies and intentions to become a separatist nation partly funded by reparations in the form of a percentage of GDP being diverted to it.
Who is correct?
It seems irresponsible to find out once the constitution has been changed, yet that’s what Albo is suggesting we do.

 

[Lauren]

I've been to the NT. I've been to FNQ. The ones it really, really remote areas are usually indigenous.

So turning to your data, the very remote population of NSW is under 7000. 31.9% said they were indigenous, 53.3% said they weren't, 15% didn't say.

By comparison almost 45000 people in the NT live in very remote areas, over 6 times more. Almost 60% of them are Aboriginal.

On the other hand the Queensland numbers the majority are non indigenous.

Again none of this means we shouldn't do more to help anyone who needs help. I'm all for anything to improve the lot of anyone in remote Australia. I'd argue that the Voice may have benefits for non-Indigenous if policy makers are better exposed to the issues that affect people there.

Same Yoss and great post from @hammertime.

I was personally shocked to see the very poor health care services in the remote communities I've visited. As someone mentioned, certain chronic illnesses/medical conditions are prevalent and with the nearest hospital a hundred or couple of hundred kilometres away, I could only imagine the difficulty they'd face with getting basic medical treatment.
Other Aboriginal communities I've visited depend on the RFDS - which were based or located 4-6 hours away at Broken Hill. However, it usually took 8 hours in waiting time to get someone flown to Sydney.
Some of these towns don't even have a local doctor and pharmacy or chemist.

The history of Aboriginal missions is distressing. Don't know too much about Aboriginal reserves and stations or the missions that were established in NSW, but I've met people from both Yarrabah and Cherbourg (during studies). All aspects of their lives were controlled by from Mission managers (incl. when and what they could eat) and if that wasn't bad enough, persons from different tribes were placed onto them and they usually had conflict due to simple miscommunication (language barriers) and the varied traditions they practised - which was actually prohibited to use under Australian law (Protection Act. ??), at that time.
Prior to the 70s the children from some of these missions didn't gain a proper education and were trained as station hands. The residents weren't allowed to leave at will either.

Cootamundra Girls and Kinchela Boys Homes not only removed children from their homes but babies too. Some of their stories are heartbreaking as they were only ever trained as domestic servants, receiving no education and simple display of affection.

Families were usually separated during the process. A father and son may have ended up on the same mission, the daughter taken to a girl's home but the mother relocated to the nearest reserve, station or mission etc.,

I don't think these communities receive much funding or it barely touches on each issue tbh but yeah if it weren't for the 1969 referendum who knows what would've occured for the general Aboriginal population. Believe the aforementioned Act. expired during/from this.

AFAIK only a signed treaty would affect sovereign power.