Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

Tucker said:
What do you mean?
The head coach oversees everything. The assistants run the sessions.
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Plenty of Photos of Benji Training for someone who just oversees everything?
Like I've said
- I've been to sessions and the assistants are standing around talking....
 
Tom Shines said:
In respect of the last point …Woods yes…I forgot him … Joe stayed the same … ( I thought he was a solid first grader when he was here..nothing more than that )…the others … I guess we have different opinions of the term “good”…

I think the overall discussion should be about players getting better after they left regardless of the reason… it’s a discussion of poor coaching and culture at the Tigers …as we see with the likes of formerly good players that deteriorate rapidly after they get here like Blair, Klemmer and Ice to name a few …
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I think you've missed my point. I don't think that should be the discussion because I don't think it's true. Most players are more or less exactly the same after they leave the Tigers as they were when they were here, and the ones that obviously take a genuine step-change upwards are the ones everyone knew would do so and we didn't want to lose (plus occasional retention howlers like Papenheuysen and Addo-Carr).

There's not really any discussion to be had, actually. A club with poor recruitment and nothing much coming through the juniors is going to have too many bad players in first grade, which means players coming in are going to look worse because they're required to do too much or aren't given any service. Papali'i is a classic example: he had a pretty straightforward job and excellent supply of the type of ball he needed in a good Parramatta side, then he came to the Tigers and got neither. He didn't get worse - he got put into a bad team. It's a team game, and players in a bad team are going to find it very hard to shine.

What we need is an ongoing uplift of roster quality and good coaching. There's no magic to it.
 
batboy said:
You looked at the period he was the head coach?
- Wouldn't he have also had a defensive coach at the time??
And if he's responsible as head coach of the Sharks - Why is Benji not responsible here and now.
Our defence for the most part - This year has been better....
Better than last year when Benji and Robbie were the Assistants

Solely blaming JM for the Defense at 2 different teams in 2 different roles is a bit rich.
The reasoning here really cracks me up.

You didn't mention he made the finals both years....
And only missed the finals in 21 - After they'd sacked him.
- How's our head coaches finals chances looking atm?
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If we had double the points in our attack the defence may be ok , you get very tired defending all game , scoring tries is not as zapping and teams seem to get adrenaline rush from it and just keep going we looked super fit when we flogged the cows , Raiders , once we leak points it’s a long game
 
2041 said:
There's not really any discussion to be had, actually. A club with poor recruitment and nothing much coming through the juniors is going to have too many bad players in first grade, which means players coming in are going to look worse because they're required to do too much or aren't given any service. Papali'i is a classic example: he had a pretty straightforward job and excellent supply of the type of ball he needed in a good Parramatta side, then he came to the Tigers and got neither. He didn't get worse - he got put into a bad team. It's a team game, and players in a bad team are going to find it very hard to shine.
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So will Luai be the same when he gets here ?

What do you make of Talau being so much better this season ? He couldn’t even make the freaking first grade side of a wooden spoon side when he was here …
 
WestsTigers4VR said:
well well well…. Johnny Morris as the defence coach…. To be honest I didn’t think much of it till I googled but during his reign at the sharks during the 2019-2021 seasons his final two seasons saw his team top the list of most missed tackles. While equally having to make the least amount of total tackles in the comp for one of them and not so far off for the other. Thoughts?
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Yeah thought as much when it was announced basically got sacked from the sharks with the eye to Fitzgibbon because the sharks could attack but were completely out of sorts in defence.
We need to hire a defensive minded coach as a specialist assistant.
 
Tom Shines said:
So will Luai be the same when he gets here ?

What do you make of Talau being so much better this season ? He couldn’t even make the freaking first grade side of a wooden spoon side when he was here …
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Wasn’t all the talk about how he had put on weight to transition into the forwards?
Manly get him and strip him down so that he can put all his focus into being a back.
I thought he had something as a centre to be honest. Would still be our best in that position.
 
Needaname said:
Wasn’t all the talk about how he had put on weight to transition into the forwards?
Manly get him and strip him down so that he can put all his focus into being a back.
I thought he had something as a centre to be honest. Would still be our best in that position.
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Talau was hopeless when he was here last year…didn’t deserve to be in the team …in any position ..
 
Needaname said:
Wasn’t it his first season back from an ACL?
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I can’t recall… I mean use that as an excuse or not I guess…. I actually thought he was always pretty poor to be honest ..but 2023 he was exceptionally bad … he was dropped mid way through the season I recall…I don’t think he was back after
 
Needaname said:
Wasn’t all the talk about how he had put on weight to transition into the forwards?
Manly get him and strip him down so that he can put all his focus into being a back.
I thought he had something as a centre to be honest. Would still be our best in that position.
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I would argue that Talau is not better than Olam or Doueihi at centre.

At best, he would be on par with To'a, who himself has been woefully inconsistent.

Talau is playing on the end of a slicker and better drilled football side than he was here and is reaping the benefits. He has in no way vastly improved or developed from his time here.

What he has done has capitalised on his opportunity at Manly and is playing some ok footy.

Good on him. I guess.
 
Kelce68 said:
I would argue that Talau is not better than Olam or Doueihi at centre.

At best, he would be on par with To'a, who himself has been woefully inconsistent.

Talau is playing on the end of a slicker and better drilled football side than he was here and is reaping the benefits. He has in no way vastly improved or developed from his time here.

What he has done has capitalised on his opportunity at Manly and is playing some ok footy.

Good on him. I guess.
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To’a would look like Reg Gasnier if he was part of that lightning fast Manly backline.
 
SwervinMervin said:
I used to hear some commentators say that Walters and Buderis ultimately eclipsed Benny. No way. I reckon Benny was the best and most influential hooker I’d seen (80s onwards) until Cameron Smith came along. Hard to argue with Smith’s stats, but Benny was an unbelievable player.
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Agree
Benny changed the way hookers played much like Billy Slater changed the involvement of the modern fullback in the game.
 
SwervinMervin said:
I used to hear some commentators say that Walters and Buderis ultimately eclipsed Benny. No way. I reckon Benny was the best and most influential hooker I’d seen (80s onwards) until Cameron Smith came along. Hard to argue with Smith’s stats, but Benny was an unbelievable player.
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Agree. Benny changed the way hookers played. Overshadowed by his grating personality, but as a player he was a revelation.

However, I don't fully accept the rhetoric around Smith. Longevity, sure. Captaincy and ref control, absolutely. But take away goal kicking and his stats per game aren't that much to write home about. Farah consistently beat him stat-wise as did other hookers around that time. I personally think the hyperbole around his career is mainly due to his longevity and the fact he captained grand final-winning teams and origin dominance. Yes that should be considered but being in a team with Slater, Cronk, and the rest plus having Bellamy as your only club coach pads that out. Would he have been as successful at the Titans with a new coach every 2 years? No way in hell.

I'm gonna say it... Overrated. On a purely playing level, was not even the best hooker of his period. I think the Qld mindset that undercuts Benny's legacy is the same mindset that puffs up Smiths.
 
Cam Smith is easily top
Tiger Tarl said:
Agree. Benny changed the way hookers played. Overshadowed by his grating personality, but as a player he was a revelation.

However, I don't fully accept the rhetoric around Smith. Longevity, sure. Captaincy and ref control, absolutely. But take away goal kicking and his stats per game aren't that much to write home about. Farah consistently beat him stat-wise as did other hookers around that time. I personally think the hyperbole around his career is mainly due to his longevity and the fact he captained grand final-winning teams and origin dominance. Yes that should be considered but being in a team with Slater, Cronk, and the rest plus having Bellamy as your only club coach pads that out. Would he have been as successful at the Titans with a new coach every 2 years? No way in hell.

I'm gonna say it... Overrated. On a purely playing level, was not even the best hooker of his period. I think the Qld mindset that undercuts Benny's legacy is the same mindset that puffs up Smiths.
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Cam Smith is easily top 5 most overrated players of all time
 
Tiger Tarl said:
Agree. Benny changed the way hookers played. Overshadowed by his grating personality, but as a player he was a revelation.

However, I don't fully accept the rhetoric around Smith. Longevity, sure. Captaincy and ref control, absolutely. But take away goal kicking and his stats per game aren't that much to write home about. Farah consistently beat him stat-wise as did other hookers around that time. I personally think the hyperbole around his career is mainly due to his longevity and the fact he captained grand final-winning teams and origin dominance. Yes that should be considered but being in a team with Slater, Cronk, and the rest plus having Bellamy as your only club coach pads that out. Would he have been as successful at the Titans with a new coach every 2 years? No way in hell.

I'm gonna say it... Overrated. On a purely playing level, was not even the best hooker of his period. I think the Qld mindset that undercuts Benny's legacy is the same mindset that puffs up Smiths.
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Hey Tiger Tarl
It might be another example of STAT’s not telling you everything.
Judging players against other players in a different playing era is impossible.
I prefer to hear in their playing days he was the best player in his position because we will never know how they would have gone in another time.
You might be able to gather that I am not a fan of immortals.
 
Kelce68 said:
I would argue that Talau is not better than Olam or Doueihi at centre.

At best, he would be on par with To'a, who himself has been woefully inconsistent.

Talau is playing on the end of a slicker and better drilled football side than he was here and is reaping the benefits. He has in no way vastly improved or developed from his time here.

What he has done has capitalised on his opportunity at Manly and is playing some ok footy.

Good on him. I guess.
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lol… he is playing at Manly ..not the 1994 Raiders .., they came 12th last year …and they have had Turbo out for most of this season and previous years they can barely win a game without him…

I think if we are being fair we should acknowledge his play IS vastly improved this season…. He couldn’t even make first grade most of last season here with as weak a team as they had in 23
 
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