Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[balmain boy]

So who here thinks Hetherington is worth over 450k a season?

That's crazy money for a 24 year old who's played 23 games.

People are saying Tamou is a plodder, by all reports we've signed him for less than Hetherington. He's currently starting prop and captain of the team where Hetherington can't crack first grade.

Hetherington had another year or two left on his 400k contract at the Panthers and has still only played 20 games by the age of 24. He has potential but is a massive work in progress and paying him that much is absurd.

 

[Holman Barnes #1 Fan]

IMHO, any extra (high) value contract shall have a clause -
the basic contract is on e.g. 400k, anything over that is paid if a player:
- meets his KPIs at least 80% of the year (e.g. 200k max);
- the team wins GF (100k);
- the team is in the top 4 (100k).


Hypothetically, we approach say JAC and we say, look we will offer you $600K but you only get $400 unless the rest of the team who hasnt made the semis in 10 years makes the top 4 and wins the comp.....but then the Dogs offer him $550K or $600K, guess where he goes.

I'd suggest that the Tigers are doing tough enough to attract high value players without getting uppity with demands.

No, if JAC meets his KPs for a year he would get 400 + 200 = 600k,
anything over that depends on the team and his contribution to the team success.
If we don't have a similar structure we risk we end up with Packers, JRs, Anastas, Blairs etc. paying extreme salaries.


Pretty sure the max value of the contract is own the cap, so it won't really work. we may pay less, but won't be able not spend it.

My understanding is the KPIs apply to upgrades for the following year. E.g. he plays 12 games at fullback in 2021, which earns him an upgraded contract for 2022. You're right in that we can't spend it, but it doesn't affect that current year if he meets them partway through it.

 

[cochise]

I really don’t like either of those ideas.

Any particular reason? At the moment the successful teams have a higher salary cap than the lower teams.

Last year we were after Latrell Mitchell, for arguments sake lets say his market value was $850k. Tigers offered $1.1M which is 30% over the assumed market value and could not get him. Souths offered $600k, 30% under the assumed market cap and he signed.

If nothing changes it is very hard for a bottom 8 team to move to the top 8 because less successful teams have a lower effective salary cap.

I really like watching players come through jnrs and rise through the grades, a draft kills that. The auction idea has massive holes, for example once a club knows a player isn't interested in joining them they will put in a high bid to make annother club pay more and affect their salary room.

 

[Snake]

However it does point out one of our problems as Snake keeps pointing out. We as members have no power to put pressure on the board. They really answer to no one.

The Board answers to the owners.

We don't want members electing the Board. They do so at the Dogs and it is , apparently, a divided and divisive Board, with members belonging to various factions.

For most of our history our Board was divided between Wests and Balmain and it is the main reason our club underperformed for a large part of our history. We are still trying to recover from those divisive years.

We need a united Board, not one that represents and answers to the various factions.

Yes but the majority of the board is made up of board members of the owner..

So they answer to themselves

Who exactly is the owner of Wests Tigers football club?


My point is that the WT is like an unwanted child whose parents are a complex organisational structure with other priorities.
It’s a structure which encourages self preservation and comfort. Who exactly feels the pain of a bad signing decision? Who feels it in the pocket when profits are low or non existent?

The guys paying the bills, Ashfield and Brydens. The guys that control the board. Why would they not be encouraging success? FWIW they have been successful in achieving off field success (membership numbers and profits), they need to translate it to on field.

Conversely, when we drill into the organisational structure of a successful club like the chooks, we find the owner is also the chairman.

The Roosters are owned by Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Limited. Nick Politis is the Chairman but is no longer an (official) sponsor, he also doesnt own the Roosters. Tigers Chairman is our major sponsor.

The difference is Politis drives there club to success .. the Tigers have no one with that type of desire ... there’s Directors on the board that we’re around at Campbelltown when the magpies where there .. 2 board members of a club that was bankrupted .. pretty easy to see why the club has had no success for a decade ! The word is DESIRE ... this separates the winners from the losers .

 

[TYGA]

Hwtherington 450k per season massive massive overs

Will be unders.

 

[cochise]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

 

[Tiger5150]

However it does point out one of our problems as Snake keeps pointing out. We as members have no power to put pressure on the board. They really answer to no one.

The Board answers to the owners.

We don't want members electing the Board. They do so at the Dogs and it is , apparently, a divided and divisive Board, with members belonging to various factions.

For most of our history our Board was divided between Wests and Balmain and it is the main reason our club underperformed for a large part of our history. We are still trying to recover from those divisive years.

We need a united Board, not one that represents and answers to the various factions.

Yes but the majority of the board is made up of board members of the owner..

So they answer to themselves

Who exactly is the owner of Wests Tigers football club?


My point is that the WT is like an unwanted child whose parents are a complex organisational structure with other priorities.
It’s a structure which encourages self preservation and comfort. Who exactly feels the pain of a bad signing decision? Who feels it in the pocket when profits are low or non existent?

The guys paying the bills, Ashfield and Brydens. The guys that control the board. Why would they not be encouraging success? FWIW they have been successful in achieving off field success (membership numbers and profits), they need to translate it to on field.

Conversely, when we drill into the organisational structure of a successful club like the chooks, we find the owner is also the chairman.

The Roosters are owned by Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Limited. Nick Politis is the Chairman but is no longer an (official) sponsor, he also doesnt own the Roosters. Tigers Chairman is our major sponsor.

The difference is Politis drives there club to success .. the Tigers have no one with that type of desire ... there’s Directors on the board that we’re around at Campbelltown when the magpies where there .. 2 board members of a club that was bankrupted .. pretty easy to see why the club has had no success for a decade ! The word is DESIRE ... this separates the winners from the losers .

I have no argument with that, my post was merely correcting the error in Twentyforty's post

 

[Snake]

However it does point out one of our problems as Snake keeps pointing out. We as members have no power to put pressure on the board. They really answer to no one.

The Board answers to the owners.

We don't want members electing the Board. They do so at the Dogs and it is , apparently, a divided and divisive Board, with members belonging to various factions.

For most of our history our Board was divided between Wests and Balmain and it is the main reason our club underperformed for a large part of our history. We are still trying to recover from those divisive years.

We need a united Board, not one that represents and answers to the various factions.

Yes but the majority of the board is made up of board members of the owner..

So they answer to themselves

Who exactly is the owner of Wests Tigers football club?


My point is that the WT is like an unwanted child whose parents are a complex organisational structure with other priorities.
It’s a structure which encourages self preservation and comfort. Who exactly feels the pain of a bad signing decision? Who feels it in the pocket when profits are low or non existent?

The guys paying the bills, Ashfield and Brydens. The guys that control the board. Why would they not be encouraging success? FWIW they have been successful in achieving off field success (membership numbers and profits), they need to translate it to on field.

Conversely, when we drill into the organisational structure of a successful club like the chooks, we find the owner is also the chairman.

The Roosters are owned by Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Limited. Nick Politis is the Chairman but is no longer an (official) sponsor, he also doesnt own the Roosters. Tigers Chairman is our major sponsor.

The difference is Politis drives there club to success .. the Tigers have no one with that type of desire ... there’s Directors on the board that we’re around at Campbelltown when the magpies where there .. 2 board members of a club that was bankrupted .. pretty easy to see why the club has had no success for a decade ! The word is DESIRE ... this separates the winners from the losers .


I have no argument with that, my post was merely correcting the error in Twentyforty's post

My views only not correcting ?

 

[cochise]

However it does point out one of our problems as Snake keeps pointing out. We as members have no power to put pressure on the board. They really answer to no one.

The Board answers to the owners.

We don't want members electing the Board. They do so at the Dogs and it is , apparently, a divided and divisive Board, with members belonging to various factions.

For most of our history our Board was divided between Wests and Balmain and it is the main reason our club underperformed for a large part of our history. We are still trying to recover from those divisive years.

We need a united Board, not one that represents and answers to the various factions.

Yes but the majority of the board is made up of board members of the owner..

So they answer to themselves

Who exactly is the owner of Wests Tigers football club?


My point is that the WT is like an unwanted child whose parents are a complex organisational structure with other priorities.
It’s a structure which encourages self preservation and comfort. Who exactly feels the pain of a bad signing decision? Who feels it in the pocket when profits are low or non existent?

The guys paying the bills, Ashfield and Brydens. The guys that control the board. Why would they not be encouraging success? FWIW they have been successful in achieving off field success (membership numbers and profits), they need to translate it to on field.

Conversely, when we drill into the organisational structure of a successful club like the chooks, we find the owner is also the chairman.

The Roosters are owned by Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Limited. Nick Politis is the Chairman but is no longer an (official) sponsor, he also doesnt own the Roosters. Tigers Chairman is our major sponsor.


As of today, the company Wests Magpies Pty Ltd (which is made up of 33% WSDRLFC
and 66% Wests Ashfield Leagues Club) are majority owners/shareholders of the Wests Tigers NRL Franchise.

The Wests Tigers Name/Brand and Logo are controlled trademarks of the ARL Commission,
hence they cannot be re-named or altered by

A sponsor, such as Brydens, simply buys advertising.

You’ve named the roosters parent company.

Wests Magpies Pty Ltd owns 90% of Wests Tigers and Balmain Rugby League Football Club owns the other 10%

 

[cochise]

IMHO, any extra (high) value contract shall have a clause -
the basic contract is on e.g. 400k, anything over that is paid if a player:
- meets his KPIs at least 80% of the year (e.g. 200k max);
- the team wins GF (100k);
- the team is in the top 4 (100k).

Won't happen

 

[The_Patriot]

Seems a fair price for Hetherington. Not sure what people expect to pay these days.

You want quality you pay. That's how it works.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

He is entitled to his money, but now that the whole “great clubman” myth has been exposed

"He is entitled to his money, but now that the whole “great clubman” myth has been exposed'

Why has he been exposed....

Because he doesn't want to move on to England (who would)?
Because he wants the money he is entitles to?
Because he is ready to play any time Madge picks him?
Because he will play any position the clubs wants him to play?

Think you are being a tad harsh on him myself.

He left mid game...

He did not attend a few club functions...

He had a fairly obvious sook last month when left out.

For the wage he is earning, he should at least sit through the games and cheer them on. "It was cold"...........

Oh! ok mate - if t hat is the best you can come up with - that'll do me.

Hey rus, I’m not having a go at all, so please don’t take this as a negative , but I notice you’re very pro player , for the most part , is there a reason behind that ?I’m just curious if there’s a good story there ?

Just think JRey is unfairly thought of in this instance. As far as I know, he signed a contract for 'X' amount and for 'X' years. It is up to the club and him to honour that agreement, unless they both decide to terminate the contract. Now, he had a number of problems, stood down during the false accusations and a number of injuries, which caused him to miss a number of games. Apart from that, he has, according to Madge trained well, played a number of games he was selected in and was available to play all the others in any position, if he had been selected. What else is he meant to do?

It is an argument between people, whether they thought he was better suited to play 5/8 rather than Marshall - whether the team played better with him and Brooks, rather than Benji, however the choice was the coaches and he made his decision. He went home at half time during the Brookvale game, the club did not feel the need to reprimand him for that, it was also reported on here (no where else) that he was a no show at the awards night - is that true or not? who knows? and if it was, did he not show because he was ill, his mother was ill, he had another engagement that he could not get out of? or did he show up for a short period of time and was not seen by the person/s on here that have an agenda? Once again who knows? but hang him anyway.

Personally I don't care how much money he is on - we agreed to pay it, if we choose to not play him and he is fit, is that his fault. Is it his fault that no other club wants his services? Is it his fault that he is selling property and making a profit? - he has to make a living as his football career is coming to a close. Nope, hang him for that as well.

Just want to keep an even perspective, as I think he is being unfairly spoken on here by a lot of posters, I'm just trying to put another side to the story to make it balance. I am not on the players side for the sake of it.

Have been against Jennings, a number of possible signings etc. Just post it the way I see it Strongee.

Yea me too . I agree with everything you said . Maybe he didn’t show up because he didn’t want to . Which is ok . Plenty of people don’t show up to the office Christmas party or work wankfests. I know I tend to not go , or if I do , I tend to fade as early as I can. Doesn’t mean I have an issue per se, getting on the turps with your boss is fraught with danger in my experience .
I wish we had some way of visiting the parallel reality where josh goes injury free and Benji never signs . I’m curious how that would have gone down . You never know , maybe next year it happens and we kick butt .

 

[cochise]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

Because of accountability, equity and fairness. That's why it's a worry. You're ok with rich "external" benefactors being the determining factor in a player signing with a particular club?

What's the point of a salary cap if the ultimate composition of a team is determined by how much a player can receive in 3rd/4th party deals??

If they have no link to the club then no I don't have a problem with it. If you stop it you would be preventing players from having endorsements and using their image for advertising which I believe is wrong.

 

[Geo]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

Because of accountability, equity and fairness. That's why it's a worry. You're ok with rich "external" benefactors being the determining factor in a player signing with a particular club?

What's the point of a salary cap if the ultimate composition of a team is determined by how much a player can receive in 3rd/4th party deals??

Because 3rd party deals are between the player and the 3rd party..Are you saying Musashi and Gatorade wouldn't provide Cameron Munster a deal to promote their products if he didn't play for the Storm..?

 

[hobbo1]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

Because of accountability, equity and fairness. That's why it's a worry. You're ok with rich "external" benefactors being the determining factor in a player signing with a particular club?

What's the point of a salary cap if the ultimate composition of a team is determined by how much a player can receive in 3rd/4th party deals??

Because 3rd party deals are between the player and the 3rd party..Are you saying Musashi and Gatorade wouldn't provide Cameron Munster a deal to promote their products if he didn't play for the Storm..?

Bwaife’s third party deal was with Elastoplast and Gatorade but he never got paid ..
Or supplied any products ?

 

[Tiger5150]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

Because of accountability, equity and fairness. That's why it's a worry. You're ok with rich "external" benefactors being the determining factor in a player signing with a particular club?

What's the point of a salary cap if the ultimate composition of a team is determined by how much a player can receive in 3rd/4th party deals??

If they have no link to the club then no I don't have a problem with it. If you stop it you would be preventing players from having endorsements and using their image for advertising which I believe is wrong.

I don't belive it's wrong at all. They are contracted to a club affiliated with the NRL. They should not be able to promote or endorse or earn income from an entity that is not.

Good luck getting that through court. Its still a relatively free country.

 

[Geo]

Whats the point in blaming anyone everyday, week and year especially if they aren’t here or we can’t do anything about the current situation.

At the end of the day the players are contracted for another year or 2. Unless someone comes along and wants them it will stay that way.

The bigger issue is how do we turn around our image over the next 2yrs to become a destination club.

COE development no doubt will help, gun youngsters & results will change the perception but at the end of the day it will come down to cash & 3rd/4th party deals.

Panthers, Bulldogs, Eels, Roosters, Souths and even Manly can offer more money on/off the park than us.

We are one of the top supported club but struggling to recruit is a massive blight on our mgmt to have cashcows will to fund player deals.

Genuine question ....how do 3rd/4th party details work? Are they outside the salary cap? is there any limit to the amount that a coach/player can earn through these deals? How do we know how much each club offers in 3rd/4th party deals?

If the third party has any link to the club there is an overall club limit under the cap. If there is link between the third party and the club, it’s unlimited

I think you meant "if there is NO link .....it's unlimited"? That's a worry. Thanks for explaining.

Why is that a worry?

Because of accountability, equity and fairness. That's why it's a worry. You're ok with rich "external" benefactors being the determining factor in a player signing with a particular club?

What's the point of a salary cap if the ultimate composition of a team is determined by how much a player can receive in 3rd/4th party deals??

Because 3rd party deals are between the player and the 3rd party..Are you saying Musashi and Gatorade wouldn't provide Cameron Munster a deal to promote their products if he didn't play for the Storm..?

I'm saying that those deals need to be regulated and have a proportional limit of the total value of the player's contract that those deals attract.

I can't wait to see an NRL player promote Buxom Bella's Therapy Services of Leumeah as part of their 3rd/4th party deal!!!

They have to be registered with the NRL and approved..