Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

Yossarian said:
Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.
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It's amazing revisionism going on with the 2022 season. No matter how you dice it - whether you isolate the games with Hastings at halfback, or lock, it was one of the worst seasons ever and this guy was supposed to be one of our key leaders / ball handlers.

I'm not anti-Hastings and I would have been just fine keeping him on, but claims of him being our best player or compulsory to a turn-around in fortunes are an incredibly long stretch.

Certainly Hastings was one of our more vocal and earnest players in 2022, and I think that's what's convinced a portion of the fanbase that he was indispensable. But as you say - 4 wins from 16 is horrendous, no matter how one might try to analyse-out Hastings' culpability.

Anyway we'll have a very good litmus test 2022, because Knights aren't much better a side than Tigers and Hastings is being given the keys to that ship. If Knights have a red hot run 2022, or not, we'll have much more data for the discussion.
 
jirskyr said:
It's amazing revisionism going on with the 2022 season. No matter how you dice it - whether you isolate the games with Hastings at halfback, or lock, it was one of the worst seasons ever and this guy was supposed to be one of our key leaders / ball handlers.

I'm not anti-Hastings and I would have been just fine keeping him on, but claims of him being our best player or compulsory to a turn-around in fortunes are an incredibly long stretch.

Certainly Hastings was one of our more vocal and earnest players in 2022, and I think that's what's convinced a portion of the fanbase that he was indispensable. But as you say - 4 wins from 16 is horrendous, no matter how one might try to analyse-out Hastings' culpability.

Anyway we'll have a very good litmus test 2022, because Knights aren't much better a side than Tigers and Hastings is being given the keys to that ship. If Knights have a red hot run 2022, or not, we'll have much more data for the discussion.
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Hastings just has to let Ponga play and Ponga has to be fit Nathan Brown had Ponga playing great footy Hastings just has to kick to the corners and give Ponga the ball when he wants it the Tigers don't have a game breaking superstar Hastings will be great for Newcastle and Ponga if egos don't get in the way
 
Noggon said:
Or observing winning culture in other clubs and asking how they do it. Copying success. Tiges don't seem to learn from mistakes...they repeat them. It can't be just players & coaches. Management & admin are not providing a platform. That's obvious. Maybe an overhaul of the whole structure of the club top to bottom is the only thing to do. Start again. Can't be any worse than 20 years of failing.
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I think u are putting to much into this culture and structure thing , so let’s look at the most successful clubs over the last 5-10 years , I would say there’s 4 or 5
Melbourne
Rooters
South’s
Penrith
So let’s break it down on these 4
Well the 1st thing is they are all owned or backed by single owners , which means they are able to entice the best juniors or the best up and comers as well as keeping the best players on lower contracts , they have the best coaches and I am sure the best back room staff . So when u compare this to the English premier soccer , look who dominates there competition, Manchester city , Chelsea , Liverpool, these clubs owned by single or very rich groups, WELL can u see the same pattern to our league , so culture and structure I think comes down to MONEY, MONEY and more MONEY, because all clubs try there best for that same culture , so it all comes down to how much money u can put into it .
 
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jirskyr said:
Yes you can assume I have no idea how much money they spend behind closed doors. But I am not the one making an argument that the club should have done more.

The rest of what you say is just talk.

No club has ever successfully brought a case against the NRL for results on a field. Not Geoff Toovey's "there's got to be an investigation", nor other notorious referee calls (e.g. Roosters-Raiders Grand Final, Turbo's match-winning forward pass etc.). There's no precedent. No club has even attempted to bring a case based on a ref's decision, let alone win one - not even attempted to do it.

I also personally think it shows a bad culture if you are to kick and scream over results. It sends another kind of message when you blame others for your bad situation and kick stones and make legal threats instead of just getting on with your season. Certainly no player should ever have that mindset.

Your analogy with the on-site crew isn't relevant. NRL players still get paid. The conditions under which they perform did not change. Nobody at the Tigers was left out of pocket or unfairly treated by workplace law. Half those players aren't even with the club any more.

My acceptable formula is to spend all the money you have on development and culture internally, and spend none of it pissing away on pointless legal action. Because bet your bottom dollar, should the Tigers have brought a frivolous case, losing and potentially even facing a penalty (e.g. paying NRL's legal fees), they would have been slammed by fans and the media for wasting time and money, for being losers, and now you have head office off-side in any future dealings where you try to get the NRL to do you a favour.

Lee H may indeed be arrogant and lack football smarts, but he's a very successful lawyer, and surely, if anything, a club with a lawyer as Chairperson should be heeding that lawyer's advice.
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Disagree.
The players were livid by the result.
Their management supported them in their stance.
Management supporting the workforce (and vice versa) IS company culture.
We can argue over roster, but imagine we field a team that wants to play for their management..? Wow there’s a novel Wests Tigers thought!
What was it that Jack said… something about winning starting in the front office..?

All due respect to your management credentials, but think I’ll go with Jack on this one 👍
 
Yossarian said:
Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.
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Robbed of one against a top 4 team too. Point is we looked like we were gaining momentum, getting a structure, developing belief and straight after his leg got broken, back to zero
 
jirskyr said:
It's amazing revisionism going on with the 2022 season. No matter how you dice it - whether you isolate the games with Hastings at halfback, or lock, it was one of the worst seasons ever and this guy was supposed to be one of our key leaders / ball handlers.

I'm not anti-Hastings and I would have been just fine keeping him on, but claims of him being our best player or compulsory to a turn-around in fortunes are an incredibly long stretch.

Certainly Hastings was one of our more vocal and earnest players in 2022, and I think that's what's convinced a portion of the fanbase that he was indispensable. But as you say - 4 wins from 16 is horrendous, no matter how one might try to analyse-out Hastings' culpability.

Anyway we'll have a very good litmus test 2022, because Knights aren't much better a side than Tigers and Hastings is being given the keys to that ship. If Knights have a red hot run 2022, or not, we'll have much more data for the discussion.
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Agreed. I personally like Hastings but we were hardly a powerhouse when he played. Overall we nudged up from abysmal to woeful when he played.
 
Yossarian said:
Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.
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None of our players who played this season were make or break players given our woeful position but some definitely offered more than others - Hastings probably fits into that category with most apart from a few who didnt/don't rate him.
It cant be ignored the decision makers who had a major bearing on our performance given the season was written off a little over halfway through the season. Can guarantee that decision will not be made next season regardless of how we are going.
 
Noggon said:
Robbed of one against a top 4 team too. Point is we looked like we were gaining momentum, getting a structure, developing belief and straight after his leg got broken, back to zero
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Sure but even that only takes him to 5 wins from 16 appearances. That’s not even 33%. He played halfback when we scored 12 points in three games against Manly, Canterbury and the Warriors.
 
Telltails said:
None of our players who played this season were make or break players given our woeful position but some definitely offered more than others - Hastings probably fits into that category with most apart from a few who didnt/don't rate him.
It cant be ignored the decision makers who had a major bearing on our performance given the season was written off a little over halfway through the season. Can guarantee that decision will not be made next season regardless of how we are going.
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I liked Hastings as a player - I’m just pointing out the facts.
 
bptiger 0 said:
I think u are putting to much into this culture and structure thing , so let’s look at the most successful clubs over the last 5-10 years , I would say there’s 4 or 5
Melbourne
Rooters
South’s
Penrith
So let’s break it down on these 4
Well the 1st thing is they are all owned or backed by single owners , which means they are able to entice the best juniors or the best up and comers as well as keeping the best players on lower contracts , they have the best coaches and I am sure the best back room staff . So when u compare this to the English premier soccer , look who dominates there competition, Manchester city , Chelsea , Liverpool, these clubs owned by single or very rich groups, WELL can u see the same pattern to our league , so culture and structure I think comes down to MONEY, MONEY and more MONEY, because all clubs try there best for that same culture , so it all comes down to how much money u can put into it .
Click to expand...
BuT Wer'E one oF ThE few ClubS tHaT mAkE a pRoFit
 
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jirskyr said:
I'm very confused by these comments. Were you not, in the previous post, saying that legal action would have set a tone of management supporting the players and we should have in fact "kicked stones"?
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Nope.
I’m saying you’re a stone kicking ‘fan’ and management is having a crack.
 
Yossarian said:
Sure but even that only takes him to 5 wins from 16 appearances. That’s not even 33%. He played halfback when we scored 12 points in three games against Manly, Canterbury and the Warriors.
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They were combos getting to know each other, trying plays & it was beginning to gel. Beating top teams by a point is belief. Don't stop trying.
 
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