Not a misleading stat. what it tells you is that our forwards cannot get us out of our own half and get the 7 to a spot on the field where his kicks can be effective.
Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion
- Thread starter MacDougall
- Start date
TigerTigerTigerTiger
Member
Apparently we're on the verge of signing Kurt Mann, so I had a look at his numbers because I'm struggling a bit to see what he actually adds to this pack.
I know per-80 stats aren't perfect. Mann is playing about 10 minutes less a game than Seyfarth, so naturally he can go harder in shorter stints. But even allowing for that, I thought the comparison was interesting.
Roughly per 80 mins this year:
Mann
126m
48 tackles
60 fantasy points
Seyfarth
120m
50 tackles
61 fantasy points
That's pretty bloody similar.
Seyfarth has more offloads, Mann gets through slightly more metres, but in terms of basic work rate there really isn't much between them.
And maybe I've got a bit of scar tissue from this sort of signing too.
We've been down the "experienced former Origin player" road a few times. Ballin was 31 and about five years removed from Origin, McQueen was 30 and roughly three years removed, Reynolds was 28 and hadn't played Origin for about three and a half years.
To be fair to Mann, he's different in one important way. He's 33, but he was playing Origin last year. So I'm not saying these are identical situations.
But we've heard the experience, leadership and standards argument before. At 33, I'd still want to know what he's actually adding on the field that we don't already have.
I'm not a Seyfarth fan, so maybe that colours my view, but do we really get better by adding another player who statistically gives us pretty much the same output?
I get the utility argument with Mann. If we didn't have a bench hooker I could see the value in someone who can cover 9 and 13.
But we've signed Brailey. You'd assume he's 14 most weeks behind Api.
So Mann is basically competing for one of the remaining forward spots on the bench.
If that's the case, I'd rather that spot go to someone who gives us something we don't already have. More size, leg speed, impact, whatever.
Maybe I'm missing something, but does another Seyfarth clon actually make this side better?
I know per-80 stats aren't perfect. Mann is playing about 10 minutes less a game than Seyfarth, so naturally he can go harder in shorter stints. But even allowing for that, I thought the comparison was interesting.
Roughly per 80 mins this year:
Mann
126m
48 tackles
60 fantasy points
Seyfarth
120m
50 tackles
61 fantasy points
That's pretty bloody similar.
Seyfarth has more offloads, Mann gets through slightly more metres, but in terms of basic work rate there really isn't much between them.
And maybe I've got a bit of scar tissue from this sort of signing too.
We've been down the "experienced former Origin player" road a few times. Ballin was 31 and about five years removed from Origin, McQueen was 30 and roughly three years removed, Reynolds was 28 and hadn't played Origin for about three and a half years.
To be fair to Mann, he's different in one important way. He's 33, but he was playing Origin last year. So I'm not saying these are identical situations.
But we've heard the experience, leadership and standards argument before. At 33, I'd still want to know what he's actually adding on the field that we don't already have.
I'm not a Seyfarth fan, so maybe that colours my view, but do we really get better by adding another player who statistically gives us pretty much the same output?
I get the utility argument with Mann. If we didn't have a bench hooker I could see the value in someone who can cover 9 and 13.
But we've signed Brailey. You'd assume he's 14 most weeks behind Api.
So Mann is basically competing for one of the remaining forward spots on the bench.
If that's the case, I'd rather that spot go to someone who gives us something we don't already have. More size, leg speed, impact, whatever.
Maybe I'm missing something, but does another Seyfarth clon actually make this side better?
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Laughing at oneself and having an Eeyore / self pity complex are two completely different kettles of fish
As for being driven crazy by GNR4LIFE and my posts you can always block us
I call a heap of shit a heap of shit and I'm not going to change
A very old saying is " trust is earned " and and the WTs have not earned anyones trust for the last 15 years
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
The travel alone will cripple them.
jrtiger
Well-known member
Kurt Mann has played State of Origin
Alex Seyfarth has not
Kurt Mann has played semi final football
Alex Seyfarth has not
Kurt Mann has been in multiple systems with differing levels of success
Alex Seyfarth has been in one system with no success to call upon
Kurt Mann has played fullback, centre, 5/8, halfback, hooker and lock during his career
Alex Seyfarth has failed to lock down a position until this year
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
Kurt Mann will also be 34
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Yeah I couldn't remember if it was 2500 or 2800 to be honest
But again .....how many WTs fans live within 90 minutes of Campbelltown
It's a bit hard to complain about the clubs performances and then in the same breath when we do achieve something not show up .....whether it's Leichhardt or Campbelltown ....it shouldn't matter
A lot of fans want excuses not to go to Campbelltown
Support your club .....don't use the Balmain v Wests excuse not to
And this isn't aimed at you Claws , thank you for supporting our ladies .....pity few thousand others didn't have the class to do that
A bias WTs fan base may have got us a few of the 50/50 ( as they do at Leichhardt ) and got us the win
happy_tiger
Well-known member
Kurt Mann was the last man up option for Qld .....Plath was out ,Cotter was out , Tino out ,Flegler out, Gilbert was out .....
@Demps was the next option up for Qld that night
Mann's value and contract comes down to what he is being paid. If he is signed on 300-400k on a one year deal with no guaranteed spot, then I am for it.
I would be starting him at Lock, moving Twal to starting prop with May/Pole and having May/Pole coming off the bench with Seyfarth and Sione.
I would be starting him at Lock, moving Twal to starting prop with May/Pole and having May/Pole coming off the bench with Seyfarth and Sione.
wstigers11
Well-known member
I just look at it as a depth signing not as that deep, if we get the same injuries as this year he’ll be handy
Assuming it’s low cost & short term, it’s low risk
Runningit11
Member
Bears roster is actually pretty ok
Have a look a little closer
A champion team will always beat a team of champions
Said this before - Curran, Henry, Horsburgh, Meaney, Russell, Sexton, Shibasaki, Smithies, Smoothy, Sorenen, Wishart, Talakai
It is really not that bad of a team, if they can get it together I think they will be competitive. Don't get me wrong, I don't think top 8 is realistic, but I don't think they will be coming last.
hank37w
Well-known member
Doesn't seem like all that long ago (believe it or not it's actually been 4 years) he missed the team bus to the airport, was dropped and was accused of having a poor attitude.
Some players can turn things around with a bit of an attitude change and it was less than a year later that he was selected and had a dream debut in Origin.
Tito Santana
Well-known member
Yeah that only works when i do it.
happy_tiger
Well-known member
I'd say that forward pack will be on the end of some lop sided penalty counts
Curran and Horsbrugh are penalty magnets
jrtiger
Well-known member
many footballers have played at a high click despite being in their mid 30s, Kurt himself being one of them.
but while you’re here, do you have an feasible alternative that’s currently on the market that you’d like to propose?
Tiger Tarl
Well-known member
Exactly. Looking at who these signings are replacing, they are all no-brainers:
Brailey --> Hope (upgrade)
Averillo --> Toa (upgrade)
Mann --> Murray? Mason? (upgrade)
Frizell --> Kit Laulilii (massive upgrade)
