SMH: Maguire not the problem

[The_Patriot]

Unfortunately I can't help but look at this from another angle.
Our coaches and players have often been used as scapegoats, for our lack of onfield success, just as much as our club and team club culture is brought into the conversation.
So perhaps when players don't sign with us it's not only because of our image - due to the exacerbation caused by any negative media attention - but that they just don't wish to have that added pressure on them.
I don't think the lower standard of being assigned with helping a club makes finals footy is the biggest reason that we can't land top line signatures. But moreso no one wants to risk becoming the whipping boy due to the club's/team's ongoing failure.

I'm actually stunned by the number of comments suggesting that Luke Brooks needs to feel all the pressure of this. As I think the club is a little demoralising (or certainly has been in the past) and a pressure cooker environment which has only caused players to languish. Not many players will thrive in these conditions and it needs to be rectified for our next lot of talented juniors, so we're not only a chance of keeping them but more importantly a club capable of optimally nurturing their development.


153 games.

Thats enough nurturing imo.

Will never achieve anything that way. Although i do agree with the principle you outlined. That applies to someone like Jacob Liddle not your seasoned pros like Luke Brooks

The point of my whole post is the problem is bigger than Brooks. Or Madge.
Replace both but the problem still lies.

FYI I'm specifically talking about recruitment issues with our inability of luring elite talent.


Sorry disagree, but thats ok.

And we have also recruited elite talent. Unfortunately they are rookies and are not big names yet. The recruitment is just fine its the overly patient approach to under performing players that is the real issue.

I understand frustrations and emotions are high but there's really no need for it in your responses to me.
I don't care if you wish to argue semantics or contradict yourself in doing so but to suggest one player deserves all pressure of our decade long failure is vile.

I don't believe i displayed frustration in my response to you. Just a difference of opinion which I stated is ok. We are allowed to disagree.

 

[tigger19]

So Nofoaluma was responsible for 3 of the cowboys tries yesterday,it could of easily been 4 but the hammer knocked on right near the try line. The other concerning thing is that 2 weeks in a row the opposition's half has danced across field a long the defensive line and put in a last second kick that has resulted in a try. Mbye to blame for Drinkwaters try yesterday,he can be very lazy in defence

 

[mike]

Your patience can be tested but that first half performance on Sunday was all about effort and attitude.”

The Wests Tigers lost 34-30 and were booed off the paddock at half-time, trailing 28-6.

**“This is something no administration has got control over,” Hagipantelis said.**

“Once the boys cross that line and run onto the paddock they’ve got to do their jobs.


What garbage.... They weren't ready, they didn't turn up... That's meant to be addressed by the head cosch BEFORE and in the lead up to the game

How do you figure that ? If they train well , do everything they’re supposed to do , warm up well , and then mentally fall into a heap , whilst out there , how is it the coaches fault ? Outside of engaging mental health professionals.

They clearly weren't prepared... You couldn't see that?
First try to them... no hunger it was like as someone else put it "oh well well get that one back next"
It's clear the preparation and whatever they're doing to in still some aggro and attitude isn't there... It's. Like they didn't give a stuff.. I'm sick of it

Tend to agree and unlike most here don't blame Nofoaluma so much for the early try, nor Roberts.

Our three edge players were involved in the tackle and none of our middle got over to help Nofo and at least limit the space there.

Lack of effort.

That’s all attitude.

 

[BZN]

Unfortunately I can't help but look at this from another angle.
Our coaches and players have often been used as scapegoats, for our lack of onfield success, just as much as our club and team club culture is brought into the conversation.
So perhaps when players don't sign with us it's not only because of our image - due to the exacerbation caused by any negative media attention - but that they just don't wish to have that added pressure on them.
I don't think the lower standard of being assigned with helping a club makes finals footy is the biggest reason that we can't land top line signatures. But moreso no one wants to risk becoming the whipping boy due to the club's/team's ongoing failure.

I'm actually stunned by the number of comments suggesting that Luke Brooks needs to feel all the pressure of this. As I think the club is a little demoralising (or certainly has been in the past) and a pressure cooker environment which has only caused players to languish. Not many players will thrive in these conditions and it needs to be rectified for our next lot of talented juniors, so we're not only a chance of keeping them but more importantly a club capable of optimally nurturing their development.

G'day @Lauren another sensible well written post with the word of the day included "exacerbation"...well done.

 

[TigerSJ]

Attitude, hunger, desire, passion, effort, heart - call it what you will, but this is the ingredient that is most lacking to make us a competitive "middle of the comp" team. I clarify that because even though a very hefty injection of this ingredient will win us half our games, it won't necessarily guarantee to win us games against the top 5-6 teams. To beat them we need further refinement and evolving of our roster.
So, in 2021 if we as a team can play with plenty of "heart" we will be good enough to fight it out for 7th or 8th. Currently however we are showing no signs that the "heart" is there at all. Whether it's a lack of belief, or whether it's a lack of enough players with competitive "winner" attitudes, or too many who are happy and comfortable enough just to be in the NRL - it's hard to say, but it has certainly been in our WT's DNA for years.

My view is there are lots of complex reasons we are who we are, one thing I do know is that it's not solely the fault of one player or another. Right now it's Brooks, and even the media are jumping on him, but the fact is that even if we had the world's best half we would ultimately be the same "heartless" team, unless we can some how find this magic missing ingredient.

Is it the Coach's job to cultivate the belief? Certainly he has to play a major part and I think that Madge is trying to do exactly that. Either they are not listening, or he simply can't get the message across well enough, or just maybe there are too many empty vessels in the group. Whichever it is a handful of coaches have not been able to fix it.

 

[Lauren]

Unfortunately I can't help but look at this from another angle.
Our coaches and players have often been used as scapegoats, for our lack of onfield success, just as much as our club and team club culture is brought into the conversation.
So perhaps when players don't sign with us it's not only because of our image - due to the exacerbation caused by any negative media attention - but that they just don't wish to have that added pressure on them.
I don't think the lower standard of being assigned with helping a club makes finals footy is the biggest reason that we can't land top line signatures. But moreso no one wants to risk becoming the whipping boy due to the club's/team's ongoing failure.

I'm actually stunned by the number of comments suggesting that Luke Brooks needs to feel all the pressure of this. As I think the club is a little demoralising (or certainly has been in the past) and a pressure cooker environment which has only caused players to languish. Not many players will thrive in these conditions and it needs to be rectified for our next lot of talented juniors, so we're not only a chance of keeping them but more importantly a club capable of optimally nurturing their development.


153 games.

Thats enough nurturing imo.

Will never achieve anything that way. Although i do agree with the principle you outlined. That applies to someone like Jacob Liddle not your seasoned pros like Luke Brooks

The point of my whole post is the problem is bigger than Brooks. Or Madge.
Replace both but the problem still lies.

FYI I'm specifically talking about recruitment issues with our inability of luring elite talent.


Sorry disagree, but thats ok.

And we have also recruited elite talent. Unfortunately they are rookies and are not big names yet. The recruitment is just fine its the overly patient approach to under performing players that is the real issue.

I understand frustrations and emotions are high but there's really no need for it in your responses to me.
I don't care if you wish to argue semantics or contradict yourself in doing so but to suggest one player deserves all pressure of our decade long failure is vile.

I don't believe i displayed frustration in my response to you. Just a difference of opinion which I stated is ok. We are allowed to disagree.

Wasn't exactly saying you were frustrated sorry, but rather the fashion in how you made it about Brooks despite my post being about recruitment and concerns of the club's environment.

 

[The_Patriot]

Unfortunately I can't help but look at this from another angle.
Our coaches and players have often been used as scapegoats, for our lack of onfield success, just as much as our club and team club culture is brought into the conversation.
So perhaps when players don't sign with us it's not only because of our image - due to the exacerbation caused by any negative media attention - but that they just don't wish to have that added pressure on them.
I don't think the lower standard of being assigned with helping a club makes finals footy is the biggest reason that we can't land top line signatures. But moreso no one wants to risk becoming the whipping boy due to the club's/team's ongoing failure.

I'm actually stunned by the number of comments suggesting that Luke Brooks needs to feel all the pressure of this. As I think the club is a little demoralising (or certainly has been in the past) and a pressure cooker environment which has only caused players to languish. Not many players will thrive in these conditions and it needs to be rectified for our next lot of talented juniors, so we're not only a chance of keeping them but more importantly a club capable of optimally nurturing their development.


153 games.

Thats enough nurturing imo.

Will never achieve anything that way. Although i do agree with the principle you outlined. That applies to someone like Jacob Liddle not your seasoned pros like Luke Brooks

The point of my whole post is the problem is bigger than Brooks. Or Madge.
Replace both but the problem still lies.

FYI I'm specifically talking about recruitment issues with our inability of luring elite talent.


Sorry disagree, but thats ok.

And we have also recruited elite talent. Unfortunately they are rookies and are not big names yet. The recruitment is just fine its the overly patient approach to under performing players that is the real issue.

I understand frustrations and emotions are high but there's really no need for it in your responses to me.
I don't care if you wish to argue semantics or contradict yourself in doing so but to suggest one player deserves all pressure of our decade long failure is vile.

I don't believe i displayed frustration in my response to you. Just a difference of opinion which I stated is ok. We are allowed to disagree.

Wasn't exactly saying you were frustrated sorry, but rather the fashion in how you made it about Brooks despite my post being about recruitment and concerns of the club's environment.

Was more me dissecting a part of what you wrote. All good

 

[Cairnstigers]

It's clear we are all frustrated to the point where we all want action taken and answers for our 10 years of failures
It is clearly not all Brooks fault yesterday but he is somewhat to blame
Why did it take till the second half to come out of his shell
Infact many players woke up at half time
It's not good enough
Every one of our players have a great game in them
The biggest problem there is that we are lucky if one or two of our players produce a good game each week
We need that to increase to 6 or 7 of our players having a great game
There is absolutely no consistency in or players when it comes to having a number of good games in a row
They all seem to be sitting back waiting for someone else to lead the team
That is where Brooks comes in
He has been at our club longer then anyone else
He is Captain
He has been told it is his team
He has a responsibility now to lead the team
That means barking at the players an directing them around the field
It also means telling them to lift there intensity when required
When we are behind the line he has to remind them of the game plan and tell his players where they went wrong
He need to leed in all areas by example

I don't think Luke has a big enough voice to be captain
It's all great being loyal and giving the captaincy to one of our very own local juniors
But it is not working
That's not Luke's fault but he just doesn't have the demeanour for that position to be thrust upon him

I like Luke but I can see him leaving our club
We shouldn't try and stand in the way of this happening
It will give Luke the chance of playing finals football because if anyone is deserving of this it's Luke
He has tried his best with us I will give him that
But the pressure now is just to great
I wonder if a trade of sorts between Brooks and Reynolds could work
I know Reynolds is off contract at the end of the year but if souths could somehow help get him over then it could work for both parties
Brooks gets to play finals and we get a finals experienced quality half and goal kicker
We can match him up with Madden and shift Douiehi back to Centre

Just some of my thoughts
But let's think about Luke
He deserves to play finals and it's not happening here any time soon by the looks of it
The pressure is just to great on him now

 

[diedpretty]

So its taken the club 8 years and the input of someone outside the club to realise Brooks isn't a half that can control a game. Give me a break. All of us armchair critics on the forum have been saying for years he is a running 5/8 that needs a controlling half to create space and get the forwards on the front foot. So what does the club do over this period - sign 5/8s or try anyone in the position to see what works. Did anyone ever consider that maybe putting a real half back with Brooks might have worked - nope. Benji at his best had half backs that could control the game and allow him to play his natural game. I hope Brooks does leave and goes to a club that sees he is not a no. 7 and he kills it because this club and his loyalty to it has virtually ruined his career.

 

[Cairnstigers]

And the answer is

 

[Lauren]

Unfortunately I can't help but look at this from another angle.
Our coaches and players have often been used as scapegoats, for our lack of onfield success, just as much as our club and team club culture is brought into the conversation.
So perhaps when players don't sign with us it's not only because of our image - due to the exacerbation caused by any negative media attention - but that they just don't wish to have that added pressure on them.
I don't think the lower standard of being assigned with helping a club makes finals footy is the biggest reason that we can't land top line signatures. But moreso no one wants to risk becoming the whipping boy due to the club's/team's ongoing failure.

I'm actually stunned by the number of comments suggesting that Luke Brooks needs to feel all the pressure of this. As I think the club is a little demoralising (or certainly has been in the past) and a pressure cooker environment which has only caused players to languish. Not many players will thrive in these conditions and it needs to be rectified for our next lot of talented juniors, so we're not only a chance of keeping them but more importantly a club capable of optimally nurturing their development.

G'day @Lauren another sensible well written post with the word of the day included "exacerbation"...well done.

Awww you're too good @MAGPIES1963 !
You'd have to be the most chipper, upbeat and pleasant Wests Tigers supporter there is.

What's your secret?
Please do tell.

 

[TigerTownSFS]

So its taken the club 8 years and the input of someone outside the club to realise Brooks isn't a half that can control a game. Give me a break. All of us armchair critics on the forum have been saying for years he is a running 5/8 that needs a controlling half to create space and get the forwards on the front foot. So what does the club do over this period - sign 5/8s or try anyone in the position to see what works. Did anyone ever consider that maybe putting a real half back with Brooks might have worked - nope. Benji at his best had half backs that could control the game and allow him to play his natural game. I hope Brooks does leave and goes to a club that sees he is not a no. 7 and he kills it because this club and his loyalty to it has virtually ruined his career.

Interesting that Moses ended up as a 7 despite playing 6 outside brooks. I wonder whether that was because brooks was more highly rated as a junior and that pushed Moses out? Anyone know the history? Blind Freddy can see brooks Doesn’t enjoy being the controlling player. I think it’s worthwhile trying him/douhie at 6/13 with a controlling 7.

 

[diedpretty]

One of the major issues with this club is that the board is accountable to no one. Us punters who are stupid enough to keep throwing money at the club don't get a say on who we would like to see pulling the strings. Unfortunately its not going to change anytime soon.

 

[Tigrrs]

Maguire not the problem?

- The rules change to enable piggy-back sets off poor discipline in the ruck. Maguire response? Let's build a massive, immobile forward pack for 2021 - he's not a progressive thinker...the best coaches are.
- Our forwards run one-out all year and the entire first half yesterday.
- Our backs have no depth in attack.
- The team apparently lacks commitment and work ethic. Maguire response? Let's sign James Roberts when we already have one mentally-weak player in the backline who can't control his temper.
- Adam Doueihi didn't kick at all in the first half yesterday.
- We didn't offload once in the first half yesterday.

Madge might be saying we need to do the above...he either isn't and that's the issue, or he is and the players aren't listening. Either way, it's not good.

I was at the game yesterday and to me it looked like the players deliberately didn't pass the ball to James Roberts. They never went right, and on the odd occasion they did, Doueihi cut him out or steppeIinside.
If yo the time go back and try and find one time where Roberts received the ball off of something structured. Even better, try and find an occasion where the backs actually had some depth and organisation ion the first half. We have no structure/the players don't listen. Worst of all, the players don't seem to want to play for each other. I think there's a cultural issue in the team where things aren't gelling, the players aren't responding and that starts and ends with the coaching staff.

No doubt Madge has a tough job to turn this club around, but it's not working. He's not the man for the job.

Nailed

 

[happy_tiger]

No one is accountable ...blame the press ...the fans ...the refs ....the bunker ...the rule changes...the other teams play too hard ......

 

[pawsandclaws1]

So its taken the club 8 years and the input of someone outside the club to realise Brooks isn't a half that can control a game. Give me a break. All of us armchair critics on the forum have been saying for years he is a running 5/8 that needs a controlling half to create space and get the forwards on the front foot. So what does the club do over this period - sign 5/8s or try anyone in the position to see what works. Did anyone ever consider that maybe putting a real half back with Brooks might have worked - nope. Benji at his best had half backs that could control the game and allow him to play his natural game. I hope Brooks does leave and goes to a club that sees he is not a no. 7 and he kills it because this club and his loyalty to it has virtually ruined his career.

Interesting that Moses ended up as a 7 despite playing 6 outside brooks. I wonder whether that was because brooks was more highly rated as a junior and that pushed Moses out? Anyone know the history? Blind Freddy can see brooks Doesn’t enjoy being the controlling player. I think it’s worthwhile trying him/douhie at 6/13 with a controlling 7.

One plays left side, the other right. Numbers are irrelevant. Moses played a lot of fullback at Holy Cross while Brooks played half.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

We were out coached by Payten. Innovative and smart coaching will get you every time. Sheens would have done the same.

 

[Mighty_Tiger]

With the size of how much our roster needs replacing no probs established star will come here.

We must build from ground up and the sooner we just bite the bullet and do it the better.

Go out and buy some of the best young talent like we did with Laurie, Blore, Stefano, Simpkin. Lets see them grow at least then we have an identity & have some hope

Right now our current squad gives us no hope at all

 

[wonka]

Madge is an angry Jason Taylor, 5 hit ups and a bomb.
Can we get a coach with some cunning & creativity.

 

[Cairnstigers]

One of the major issues with this club is that the board is accountable to no one. Us punters who are stupid enough to keep throwing money at the club don't get a say on who we would like to see pulling the strings. Unfortunately its not going to change anytime soon.

Opt out of your membership automatic renewal in mass
That will raise heads and may make changes at the top