The National Anthem

@OzLuke Yes that is an example of equity at work, as a group indigenous people have more risk factors for dental problems! So instead of spending a lot of money determining which individuals need extra assistance with dental care the equity is given to the group as it works out cheaper in the long run!
 
@weststigers said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017437) said:
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017400) said:
@weststigers said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017374) said:
@DieHarder said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017349) said:
@weststigers it’s not about the British colonies and I think that much is obvious because the criticism he presented and as many others have posted, is that it’s not an inclusive anthem to the indigenous where we have nations near us that do have a special version for natives (SA/NZ).

Not saying this is an answer to our dilemma but I’m not sure any one person can provide that!

His concern probably isn’t focused on the betterment of Australia and maybe even IS trying to stir things up to add value but my point is he is perfectly capable of speaking on behalf of those closest to him in community & family, whilst we seem to think we require an explanation?

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s fighting for and has free speech. He’s a good bloke by all accounts and I personally am happy for him to do whatever he likes!
I’d say he’s not expecting to get anything out of this but represents a majority of his people!

Great post BTW, very respectfully put

It is about British colonialism. He quoted it himself.

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/nrl/indigenous-player-boycotting-the-national-anthem-isnt-a-first-as-players-get-hollywood-support/news-story/2849668c6ff0e40ef29cb7c809afdb30

**“To be honest, no,” Walker said when asked if he was comfortable standing for the Australian anthem.
“It just brings back so many memories of what’s happened (in Australia’s past). It’s something that everyone as a group and everyone in Australia need to get together and working something out. It doesn’t represent myself and my family.”**

I'd understand if it was simply a matter of inclusiveness, but the player himself has said it's about the past.

My question stands I'm afraid...

There are still people alive, probably members o his family who lived the injustices that were directed to the indigenous people in this country! Injustices that meet the UN's definition of genocide. These are not issues of the past as many people are still living with the effects of these issues.

For those asking about what is offensive in the anthem, it has been discussed many times in this thread but the anthem completely ignores 40000 years of indigenous history. Those people who say it is not offensive have no right to dictate to others what they do and don't find offensive.

If you read my previous posts, I actually agree with everything you've said.

My question is simply, if he won't sing the anthem because of things the British did in the past, why is he happy to wear a jersey that represents the same thing?

The NSW coat of arms has the British lion and the St George's cross on it for crying out loud, yet the anthem mentions nothing of colonisation. If anything, the jersey is more offensive than the anthem.

I find the premise of his reasoning to be a little contradictory.

Relax...no one here is trying to deny the past.

Good Yarn Mate. Well put
 
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017439) said:
@OzLuke Yes that is an example of equity at work, as a group indigenous people have more risk factors for dental problems! So instead of spending a lot of money determining which individuals need extra assistance with dental care the equity is given to the group as it works out cheaper in the long run!

I disagree with this. I earn the same money as him but I have to pay for his kids teeth and he doesn't have to pay for my kids teeth???
 
@weststigers For starters, I will state again that for many people these injustices are not the past, it is something they lived through and it effects their lives everyday. I'm not saying this to have a go at you, I get what you are saying but its this use of language that gets people upset as the issues are still current to them! Someone who was removed from their family and lost their culture does not view that in the past as that culture is still possibly lost to them today!

That is a personal question that only he can answer! Maybe he just doesn't want to sing the anthem because the song itself means little to him. Just because he doesn't feel represented by the anthem does not mean he does not want to be a part the state or country. He is not asking for his own country, he is asking for greater representation in the country he belongs to and most probably loves as much as anyone!
 
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017443) said:
I disagree with this. I earn the same money as him but I have to pay for his kids teeth and he doesn’t have to pay for my kids teeth???

You are allowed to disagree with this, but the only way to create an even and fair society is through equity!
 
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017446) said:
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017443) said:
I disagree with this. I earn the same money as him but I have to pay for his kids teeth and he doesn’t have to pay for my kids teeth???

You are allowed to disagree with this, but the only way to create an even and fair society is through equity!

Agree...equity for all
 
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017447) said:
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017446) said:
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017443) said:
I disagree with this. I earn the same money as him but I have to pay for his kids teeth and he doesn’t have to pay for my kids teeth???

You are allowed to disagree with this, but the only way to create an even and fair society is through equity!

Agree...equity for all

but anyway....who cares if he sings the anthem or not.....
 
@OzLuke your paying about $0.00000000000000001 for one of your alleged 'best mates' kid's teeth...fair go mate. What are your thoughts on the halal tax? Lol. Hypothetical question
 
@Dan_Blanco said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017449) said:
@OzLuke your paying about $0.00000000000000001 for one of your alleged 'best mates' kid's teeth...fair go mate. What are your thoughts on the halal tax? Lol. Hypothetical question

dunno they singing the anthem???
 
@Dan_Blanco said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017452) said:
@OzLuke I see what U did there! 🧐

just trying to keep on topic :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
 
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017445) said:
@weststigers For starters, I will state again that for many people these injustices are not the past, it is something they lived through and it effects their lives everyday. I'm not saying this to have a go at you, I get what you are saying but its this use of language that gets people upset as the issues are still current to them! Someone who was removed from their family and lost their culture does not view that in the past as that culture is still possibly lost to them today!

That is a personal question that only he can answer! Maybe he just doesn't want to sing the anthem because the song itself means little to him. Just because he doesn't feel represented by the anthem does not mean he does not want to be a part the state or country. He is not asking for his own country, he is asking for greater representation in the country he belongs to and most probably loves as much as anyone!

It still applies to people who view these issues as current, but I'm going on what the man himself said...he mentioned the past in the article I quoted earlier.

I'm not minimising the issues. It's simply something that jumps out at me as being contradictory and I'm genuinely interested in his response.

People asked him why he wouldn't sing the anthem....I thinks it's fair to ask why he is happy to wear the jersey and what the difference between the two is.
 
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017447) said:
Agree…equity for all

Ideally equity adjustments would be accessed on an individual basis, but that is not feasible, so statistics are used. Using your dental care question and some made up figures as an example, say 75% of indigenous people have severe dental issues compared to 25% in the general population. The decision is made to fund dental care for indigenous people, this is not to disadvantage you or people like yourself. It is an equity decision to get the 75% closer to 25% and give the 75% an equal chance in life!
 
Not fussed sing or dont sing its his personal choice, my problem is why add that sort of pressure to yourself on your origin debut. If he chose not to sing and not say anything no one would be none the wiser.
 
@cochise said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017455) said:
@OzLuke said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017447) said:
Agree…equity for all

Ideally equity adjustments would be accessed on an individual basis, but that is not feasible, so statistics are used. Using your dental care question and some made up figures as an example, say 75% of indigenous people have severe dental issues compared to 25% in the general population. The decision is made to fund dental care for indigenous people, this is not to disadvantage you or people like yourself. It is an equity decision to get the 75% closer to 25%!

Why don't other groups who have a proportionally higher incidence of dental issues get their dental care paid for?

The truth is, aboriginals are not genetically pre-disposed to dental issues...it's education of oral health that has been lacking, therefore more issues. A cursory glance on Google can confirm this. Poverty also plays a part, but that is not isolated to Aboriginal people.

A fairer test would be to means test the benefit, rather than give/not give based on race.
 
@weststigers said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017454) said:
People asked him why he wouldn’t sing the anthem…I thinks it’s fair to ask why he is happy to wear the jersey and what the difference between the two is.

As I said, It is a personal question for him which I doubt he will be asked! But it is possible to still love your state and country and still be upset at its actions in the past and want to make a statement about those actions!
 
@cochise
I would have thought the word "equity" had some relevance to the word "equal".
And "equal" meaning pretty much the same treatment for everyone, regardless of race.
Otherwise, we could be considered "racist".
And we can't have that now, can we ?
 
@Go_You_Good_Things said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017463) said:
@cochise
I would have thought the word "equity" had some relevance to the word "equal".
And "equal" meaning pretty much the same treatment for everyone, regardless of race.
Otherwise, we could be considered "racist".
And we can't have that now, can we ?

Equity = Equality of the outcome (eg 50% men and 50% women in parliament)
Equality = Equality of opportunity (eg men and women are subject to the same process and the best person gets the job)

Equality is better in my opinion.
 
@Go_You_Good_Things said in [The National Anthem](/post/1017463) said:
@cochise
I would have thought the word "equity" had some relevance to the word "equal".
And "equal" meaning pretty much the same treatment for everyone, regardless of race.
Otherwise, we could be considered "racist".
And we can't have that now, can we ?

after all, we are all one Planet here aren't we???
 
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