The National Anthem

[Cultured_Bogan]

@Cultured_Bogan I'm not going to second guess the guy, but I would like to see what he'd answer if the question of

"why play for the jersey, but reject the anthem?"

was posed to him.

I'm just genuinely interested in the answer.

Yeah fair enough, if he wanted to offer an explanation I'd be interested to hear his thoughts.
In no way trying to make a comparison and I've never been to the US , do they have the same issues with American Indians and the flag , national anthem

Chris or Bon would probably be able to clear that up.

 

[balmain boy]

@balmain-boy because the division of the country by state borders is post 1788.

If the anthem represents everything he hates about Australia and colonialisation, then by default, the division of land into state boundaries is part of that. Not to mention that James Cook himself named the state after Wales in the UK.

The NSW coat of arms is a British lion and a kangaroo on a crest of the red cross of St George, the patron Saint of England. He will wear that on his chest.

The emblem does not represent the aboriginal people at all. It represents the founding of NSW by the British Empire and th offspring of that Empire.

The reasons he's stated he won't sing the anthem, apply to the crest and the name of NSW. I find that ironic.

For the record...I'm not saying he shouldn't play, nor am I saying he's not free to do what he wants. I'm just highlighting the holes in the argument and the inconsistency of the stance he has taken.

He has a choice in what he sings. He can control this. He can't control a badge on a jersey, not that anyone's ever looked at the badge in the last 30 years. They won't make him a special jersey without the badge. So he's protesting what he can, without hampering his own career ambitions.

 

[cktiger]

@balmain-boy because the division of the country by state borders is post 1788.

If the anthem represents everything he hates about Australia and colonialisation, then by default, the division of land into state boundaries is part of that. Not to mention that James Cook himself named the state after Wales in the UK.

The NSW coat of arms is a British lion and a kangaroo on a crest of the red cross of St George, the patron Saint of England. He will wear that on his chest.

The emblem does not represent the aboriginal people at all. It represents the founding of NSW by the British Empire and th offspring of that Empire.

The reasons he's stated he won't sing the anthem, apply to the crest and the name of NSW. I find that ironic.

For the record...I'm not saying he shouldn't play, nor am I saying he's not free to do what he wants. I'm just highlighting the holes in the argument and the inconsistency of the stance he has taken.

He has a choice in what he sings. He can control this. He can't control a badge on a jersey, not that anyone's ever looked at the badge in the last 30 years. They won't make him a special jersey without the badge. So he's protesting what he can, without hampering his own career ambitions.

That may be so ... but what exactly in the anthem makes him, and others, refuse to sing it?
All I ever hear is that it does not represent Aboriginal people?
Why is that? Because it was written by a white man and doesn't directly reference them?
The words sound inclusive of everyone to me.
I'd love to hear one of these guys say what it is they are complaining about.
I don't think it's anything to do with the anthem ... just a symbolic protest over white people discovering their land and turning it into Australia.
History shows that Aboriginals were looked on as a primitive people, unfairly treated and dealt many injustices.
This wasn't uncommon at the time right throughout the world and, rightly so, is looked upon with regret and sorrow in today's world.
Unfortunately racism still has pockets ... and it isn't confined to white people.
For a wake up call on how a lot of Aboriginals view whites, and most migrants, it's interesting to have a look at a few Aboriginal Facebook sites... a real eye opener.

 

[weststigers]

@balmain-boy because the division of the country by state borders is post 1788.

If the anthem represents everything he hates about Australia and colonialisation, then by default, the division of land into state boundaries is part of that. Not to mention that James Cook himself named the state after Wales in the UK.

The NSW coat of arms is a British lion and a kangaroo on a crest of the red cross of St George, the patron Saint of England. He will wear that on his chest.

The emblem does not represent the aboriginal people at all. It represents the founding of NSW by the British Empire and th offspring of that Empire.

The reasons he's stated he won't sing the anthem, apply to the crest and the name of NSW. I find that ironic.

For the record...I'm not saying he shouldn't play, nor am I saying he's not free to do what he wants. I'm just highlighting the holes in the argument and the inconsistency of the stance he has taken.

He has a choice in what he sings. He can control this. He can't control a badge on a jersey, not that anyone's ever looked at the badge in the last 30 years. They won't make him a special jersey without the badge. So he's protesting what he can, without hampering his own career ambitions.

By that logic, you'd see Jews wearing Nazi uniforms if it meant they could further their careers...

By playing for NSW, he is literally playing under the badge of the conquering British settlers, under the name of land claimed and named by the British, while simultaneously playing a game invented by the British.

I'm not British. I have no skin in the game. I'm just pointing out some obvious questions around his stance, because to me, his stance hasn't been thought through properly.

I'm asking questions...you're giving answers...and you're not Cody Walker.

I've simply said these are questions that have come up in the initial stance he's taken. If you make a stand against something, you're not immune to having to back it up with a logical argument.

 

[Jock Koss]

@weststigers it’s not about the British colonies and I think that much is obvious because the criticism he presented and as many others have posted, is that it’s not an inclusive anthem to the indigenous where we have nations near us that do have a special version for natives (SA/NZ).

Not saying this is an answer to our dilemma but I’m not sure any one person can provide that!

His concern probably isn’t focused on the betterment of Australia and maybe even IS trying to stir things up to add value but my point is he is perfectly capable of speaking on behalf of those closest to him in community & family, whilst we seem to think we require an explanation?

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s fighting for and has free speech. He’s a good bloke by all accounts and I personally am happy for him to do whatever he likes!
I’d say he’s not expecting to get anything out of this but represents a majority of his people!

Great post BTW, very respectfully put

 

[weststigers]

@weststigers it’s not about the British colonies and I think that much is obvious because the criticism he presented and as many others have posted, is that it’s not an inclusive anthem to the indigenous where we have nations near us that do have a special version for natives (SA/NZ).

Not saying this is an answer to our dilemma but I’m not sure any one person can provide that!

His concern probably isn’t focused on the betterment of Australia and maybe even IS trying to stir things up to add value but my point is he is perfectly capable of speaking on behalf of those closest to him in community & family, whilst we seem to think we require an explanation?

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s fighting for and has free speech. He’s a good bloke by all accounts and I personally am happy for him to do whatever he likes!
I’d say he’s not expecting to get anything out of this but represents a majority of his people!

Great post BTW, very respectfully put

It is about British colonialism. He quoted it himself.

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/nrl/indigenous-player-boycotting-the-national-anthem-isnt-a-first-as-players-get-hollywood-support/news-story/2849668c6ff0e40ef29cb7c809afdb30

**“To be honest, no,” Walker said when asked if he was comfortable standing for the Australian anthem.
“It just brings back so many memories of what’s happened (in Australia’s past). It’s something that everyone as a group and everyone in Australia need to get together and working something out. It doesn’t represent myself and my family.”**

I'd understand if it was simply a matter of inclusiveness, but the player himself has said it's about the past.

My question stands I'm afraid...

 

[cochise]

@weststigers it’s not about the British colonies and I think that much is obvious because the criticism he presented and as many others have posted, is that it’s not an inclusive anthem to the indigenous where we have nations near us that do have a special version for natives (SA/NZ).

Not saying this is an answer to our dilemma but I’m not sure any one person can provide that!

His concern probably isn’t focused on the betterment of Australia and maybe even IS trying to stir things up to add value but my point is he is perfectly capable of speaking on behalf of those closest to him in community & family, whilst we seem to think we require an explanation?

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s fighting for and has free speech. He’s a good bloke by all accounts and I personally am happy for him to do whatever he likes!
I’d say he’s not expecting to get anything out of this but represents a majority of his people!

Great post BTW, very respectfully put

It is about British colonialism. He quoted it himself.

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/nrl/indigenous-player-boycotting-the-national-anthem-isnt-a-first-as-players-get-hollywood-support/news-story/2849668c6ff0e40ef29cb7c809afdb30

**“To be honest, no,” Walker said when asked if he was comfortable standing for the Australian anthem.
“It just brings back so many memories of what’s happened (in Australia’s past). It’s something that everyone as a group and everyone in Australia need to get together and working something out. It doesn’t represent myself and my family.”**

I'd understand if it was simply a matter of inclusiveness, but the player himself has said it's about the past.

My question stands I'm afraid...

There are still people alive, probably members o his family who lived the injustices that were directed to the indigenous people in this country! Injustices that meet the UN's definition of genocide. These are not issues of the past as many people are still living with the effects of these issues.

For those asking about what is offensive in the anthem, it has been discussed many times in this thread but the anthem completely ignores 40000 years of indigenous history. Those people who say it is not offensive have no right to dictate to others what they do and don't find offensive.

 

[Jock Koss]

@cochise that’s exactly it isn’t it, Cochise?Personally think his question still stands on its credibility but it’s also not a very fair 1 and one that as you say is totally not about poms but a genocide that most of us know is not yet reconciled. The anthem being tip of the iceberg

Possibly even a larger metaphor for change, the potential to sew seeds of acceptance but full credit to those that are on both sides forming their own valid opinions and bringing that to fruition

 

[cochise]

@DieHarder Yeah exactly! The anthem was voted on in 1977, indigenous people only got the right to vote 10 years earlier, Forceful removal of children was on just finishing, how free do you think the indigenous people felt in their own country at that point in time? How free do those people who lived through the stolen generation feel now?

 

[Jock Koss]

@cochise another great point to which I’d further add most, if not all, of my indigenous friends hate the way people are capable of assuming (ignorant ones) that they play a victim card

All it takes is one trip to the outback or even outermost suburbs of Sydney to see it. Then you go on to asking whether they’ve been afforded the same rehabilitation and inclusion in our countries schemes and even if centrelink may be to their detriment... or whether they have access to good housing/higher education is when you’ll realise it’s still not a level playing field

 

[OzLuke]

everyone gets their right to protest and say their piece...but everyone should have the right to agree or disagree as long as it's healthy discussion, not insults thrown because of a difference of opinion...

What I find hard, and this stands for a lot of groups in the community, everyone wants more at the expense of others. Everyone wants to be treated equal, but expect different levels of equality.

You can't rub out however many years of Indigenous history, as much as our forebears tried but you also can't eradicate the past few hundred years of Australian history either. But having a go at modern Australians about whatever happened in the past won't get anything solved.

In my experience I have come across so many Indigenous people who have an amazing knowledge of their culture, and it is a beautiful culture, but I have also copped loads of abuse for stealing land from people who only want to put their hand out and not try to promote real, healthy change...

Just my two cents. personally I don't care one way or another if he sings or not, but what would happen if the anthem gets changed, and another group of people don't sing it because it doesn't reflect their culture or what they stand for?? Would that be seen as racist and intolerant?? Food for thought

 

[Jock Koss]

Anyways think the general consensus is if everybody wanted to change it, then yes

But for now even though it would hardly affect us bar learning new lyrics to sing every now and then you get the anti-freedom fighters lol. Probably will never change but maybe Australia Day could and they’re most certainly more than happy to not bring up changing the flag - fair questions on both sides are hopefully gonna lead to it being cleared up forever. Finally.

 

[Jock Koss]

@OzLuke great points 🤔

 

[cochise]

@DieHarder Someone stated earlier about it being racist to think people need extra help because of their skin colour, this is true, but because of our governments policies towards indigenous people many indigenous people are starting from behind, "not a level playing field" as you put it. To relate it to football, because of our countries policies for many indigenous people it is like starting a game 18-0 down, sure you will get the occassional win, but they are few and far between!

 

[cochise]

What I find hard, and this stands for a lot of groups in the community, everyone wants more at the expense of others. Everyone wants to be treated equal, but expect different levels of equality.

I disagree with this part of your post, we should not be searching for equality, we should strive for equity!

**Equality** is *everyone* getting the same thing
**Equity** is *everyone* getting what they need to succeed!

 

[Jock Koss]

Equity is what we want

 

[OzLuke]

Some people need more than others to succeed, and they don't have the same definition of success......

 

[cochise]

Some people need more than others to succeed, and they don't have the same definition of success......

Yes exactly! that is why Equity is better than Equality! Everyone gets a chance to succeed!

 

[OzLuke]

Some people need more than others to succeed, and they don't have the same definition of success......

Yes exactly! that is why Equity is better than Equality! Everyone gets a chance to succeed!

So my last point on the matter, and I can say this has been quite a healthy discussion.....

One of my best mates is Indigenous, we do the same job, same pay, same everything, but because he's indigenous he gets several perks for himself and his family that I can't get. Free dental etc....would this be seen as equity? I can't get these perks for whatever reason, but he can....would people say that I am being treated differently for no reason? Because, in THIS example, there is no difference whatsoever except his heritage is Indigenous and mine is Anglo Saxon...

Don't get me wrong good on him for getting what he can, and we have yarned about this, but it's interesting when the penny falls on the other side who stands up for what

 

[weststigers]

@weststigers it’s not about the British colonies and I think that much is obvious because the criticism he presented and as many others have posted, is that it’s not an inclusive anthem to the indigenous where we have nations near us that do have a special version for natives (SA/NZ).

Not saying this is an answer to our dilemma but I’m not sure any one person can provide that!

His concern probably isn’t focused on the betterment of Australia and maybe even IS trying to stir things up to add value but my point is he is perfectly capable of speaking on behalf of those closest to him in community & family, whilst we seem to think we require an explanation?

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s fighting for and has free speech. He’s a good bloke by all accounts and I personally am happy for him to do whatever he likes!
I’d say he’s not expecting to get anything out of this but represents a majority of his people!

Great post BTW, very respectfully put

It is about British colonialism. He quoted it himself.

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/nrl/indigenous-player-boycotting-the-national-anthem-isnt-a-first-as-players-get-hollywood-support/news-story/2849668c6ff0e40ef29cb7c809afdb30

**“To be honest, no,” Walker said when asked if he was comfortable standing for the Australian anthem.
“It just brings back so many memories of what’s happened (in Australia’s past). It’s something that everyone as a group and everyone in Australia need to get together and working something out. It doesn’t represent myself and my family.”**

I'd understand if it was simply a matter of inclusiveness, but the player himself has said it's about the past.

My question stands I'm afraid...

There are still people alive, probably members o his family who lived the injustices that were directed to the indigenous people in this country! Injustices that meet the UN's definition of genocide. These are not issues of the past as many people are still living with the effects of these issues.

For those asking about what is offensive in the anthem, it has been discussed many times in this thread but the anthem completely ignores 40000 years of indigenous history. Those people who say it is not offensive have no right to dictate to others what they do and don't find offensive.

If you read my previous posts, I actually agree with everything you've said.

My question is simply, if he won't sing the anthem because of things the British did in the past, why is he happy to wear a jersey that represents the same thing?

The NSW coat of arms has the British lion and the St George's cross on it for crying out loud, yet the anthem mentions nothing of colonisation. If anything, the jersey is more offensive than the anthem.

I find the premise of his reasoning to be a little contradictory.

Relax...no one here is trying to deny the past.